Should the club hire a Director of Football?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Lemansky, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. Aug 10, 2018

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    It's really difficult you know. I would hate us to turn into Richer Arsenal from a Great Manutd Sir Alex Built.
  2. Aug 10, 2018

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

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    And since the owners dont have a fecking clue about football either, they let him do it. He's the king of Carrington, totally untouchable, and all staff need to bow down when he passes by.

    United really should start with a top professional set up.
  3. Aug 10, 2018

    Marcky411 Full Member

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    All true what you are stating but I agree with Hitchez's view, personally I think someone at board level has looked at the past 5 years post SAF and has realized that UTD cannot carry on this way. If we continue down this road with this dreadful football, scattergun transfer policies hoping that by some luck it maybe all works out, it will cost Utd dearly in the future when it comes to extending sponsorship deals and attracting new. Also lets be honest the only press we have received the past 5 years has been bad press, we have seldom hit the headlines for something positive.
    Who knows maybe Fergie has been airing his views to the board, now that he is witnessing what is happening to the club he had build up to the club and brand it is today. Maybe this past USA tour was an eye opener seeing the numbers coming out to the games deteriorating compared to past tours, also Jose's press conferences didn't help matters either.

    As you put so correctly,"The board is trying to maximize profits".
  4. Aug 10, 2018

    MuranoLover Full Member

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    There is never going to be a next SAF , unfortunately .
  5. Aug 10, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Says who ? It's more likely he fell out with Mourinho, Ribalta made his name finding quality free-transfers and having an eye for talented youngsters, doesn't sound much like he'd be much use to Mourinho does it ?
  6. Aug 10, 2018

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    It's Woodward as he's not used to work With DOF.
  7. Aug 10, 2018

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member

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    Pisspoor. The Perisic situation is ridiculous and smacks of a power move to put Jose in his place rather than think about the good of the club.

    For what it's worth I even have sympathy with the fact the market has been inflated to the point where getting in those players "better than those United have already got" without paying unbelievably ridiculous money in fees and wages is almost impossible. However no-one said this job is meant to be easy and the power plays and politics behind the scenes is actively harming the club at this stage, which is a dereliction of duty by the board whichever way you look at it.
  8. Aug 10, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    He wasn't a DOF though, he was 2nd in command of the scouting department, and he'd have taken his suggestions to Mourinho, not Ed Woodward
  9. Aug 10, 2018

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    And Woodward is in charge of the money which brings them here. If there are differences, woodwards action Prevails and he has the final say in it.
  10. Aug 10, 2018

    Red Katie The least positive person in match threads ever

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    Yeah, this keep popping up but do you actually know this? It's become a fact for some of you
  11. Aug 10, 2018

    Gopher Brown Full Member

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    First, what if we employ the wrong DOF? Sack him as well as the manager and rip up our long-term plans? I think a lot of you think a DOF is the answer to all our problems without the slightest bit of evidence. What if someone like Van Gaal came in as DOF? Can you imagine the uproar.

    Second, all this about ‘Woodward isn’t a football man/doesn’t know anything about football’ what does that mean? Football isn’t a closed shop, nor is it too difficult to get your head round. He’s not very good at his job, it seems, but I expect he knows a great deal about players and football. Robbie Savage is a ‘football man’ - would you want him as CEO?
  12. Aug 10, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Of course he has the final say, he's the CEO, that's his job, and it would be the same if we had a DOF
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  13. Aug 10, 2018

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    If Wd Woodward decides he knows football players better than the manager then what would stop him doing the same with a Director of Football?
  14. Aug 10, 2018

    flappyjay Full Member

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    Does Ed have to be a "football man" in order to tell that the two center backs he was told to buy were on the bench for the FA Cup final. Seating there wondering "where is that lindelof fella and Eric weren't they suppose to help us win trophies"
  15. Aug 10, 2018

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    Javier Rabilta left mid Window.
  16. Aug 10, 2018

    Devils11 New Member

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    Bring in a manager that dare to play attacking football. Look at Man City and Liverpool ; FB overlap, FW and AM making run into space etc . They are playing attacking football like Utd of the old.
  17. Aug 10, 2018

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    Mourinho did make a mistake on that, but its not suitable for Ed to interfere and question on managers day to day decision making process.

    Our pressing need for a quality centre back who can pass the ball also would have improved out transition speed as well, or mourinho wanted to play 3 at the back who could pass the ball so it isn't Ed's job to judge every decision mourinho makes.

    Not agreeing with all of Mourinho's targets but we needed at least one more player to improve some of our football. Ed jas left Mourinho with very less compared to what competitiors have strengthened.
  18. Aug 10, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    If Mourinho wasn't around LvG would be a great DOF, and if he'd been 15 years younger.....

    Ed Woodward is very knowledgeable about football, but I suppose if you have regular catch-ups with fellow board, or is that bored members SAF, Sir Bobby Charlton and David Gill you would be. Yet according to most on here he's Mr Bean :lol:
  19. Aug 10, 2018

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

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    I'm ok with no short shelf life players. Maguire wouldn't be. Sandro arguably wouldn't be. There must be a right winger somewhere around 25 or 26 that's reasonable. They don't even need to be a world beater. Just good and actually a right winger.

    Even if the view is to change manager next season, these kind of players would be massively useful for anyone. Bring in a reasonably priced winger now and then let them choose the one that should be a world beater in the future, and voila, we have depth like City.
  20. Aug 10, 2018

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    Well, David gill dint enjoy the same powers as Ed Woodward . It's a Ceo's job to have a close Rapport with the manager and workout on a common understanding of what is essential and what is not. He doesn't have to act as a superior authority when his knowledge of football is very limited and all he cares is about the investors and finances and not about the state of football.

    He has to deliver financial targets alright but not on the expense of Managers Footballing targets.
  21. Aug 10, 2018

    Lemansky Full Member

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    In light of the recent leaks I have no doubt that this club is in a dire need of a DOF. We need a football person governing our long term football vision and strategy. This needs to be implemented as soon as possible.
  22. Aug 10, 2018

    Kapardin Full Member

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    We will eventually, but it will take some more feck ups for Woodward to realize that.
  23. Aug 10, 2018

    MUFC OK Full Member

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    I completely agree, there is no succession plan or advances model that we are subscribing to, it's a mishmash of ideas and players to suit different systems. Signing Ribalta, the man who identified many of Juve's best signings of the last 10 years was promising, we were patient, then he leaves after less than 18 months. It's hard to see where the club is going or anything that is happening behind the scenes except for the commercial sponsorship drive led by Ed Woodward.
  24. Aug 10, 2018

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

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    Does this work at Bayern Munich?

    They always seem to be a well run outfit; one horse race the Bundesliga is
  25. Aug 10, 2018

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    The owners need to go.

    We can blame manager after manager or this player, that player, but fundamentally, the board are responsible for the lack of footballing ambition we witness year in, year out.

    We’re way behind all of the other top clubs now, and only surviving on our previous successes, which keep us marketable so that the leeching owners can profit.
  26. Aug 10, 2018

    littlepeasoup Full Member

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    Give peas a chance.
    You only have to look at the elite teams, who all regularly turn over mangers (Bayern, Barca, Madrid, PSG) and are all still wildly successful, to see there's something desperately wrong with the way our club is run.
  27. Aug 10, 2018

    Invictus Requested a break for a few months

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    Yes, though it's a bit more nuanced and organic in that Bayern have a lot of ex-players to steer the ship as directors and chairmen (Hoeneß and Rummenigge are the most prominent ones) and Sporting Directors (like Nerlinger in the past) — didn't work so well in some parts of the F.C. Hollywood era and in the mid 2000s-ish, but worked very well towards the turn of this decade when they made a lot of great decisions and pushed the envelope around the home-grown core of Lahm and Schweinsteiger, but IMO, Hoeneß has been hit-and-miss for the most part since his return to the fold after the tax evasion sentencing, so there are inevitable ups and downs.

    These days, you could argue that Juventus is the club to emulate for an organisation of United's profile: transitioned from Conte to Allegri without any hiccups, reached 2 European Cup finals whilst maintaining their domestic dominance (7 Serie A titles and 4 Coppa Italia on the trot), hardly skipped a beat in medium term after losing the likes of Pirlo and Pogba and Vidal and Tévez and Bonucci, get a lot of value for their money, and so forth. They too have a lot of footballing experience in the organisation: Beppe Marotta as Sporting GM, his left hand man Paratici as Sporting Director, Nedvěd as vice-Chairman. Complete transformation after they were in the doldrums following the Calciopoli scandal and relegation. That's probably the type of keenly defined structure United should try to replicate to a degree — thought Ribalta (ex-Juventus scout who worked with the aforementioned) was a step in that direction, but he's now at Zenit.

    Mind, simply hiring a DoF or GM isn't some sort of panacea. An incompetent one would steep the club in failure with poor decisions and potentially cause factions in the staff with his political influence, so there's reason to be wary — unless you hit the jackpot with the new Galliani. United were utterly spoiled by the all-encompassing authority of Fergie: who kept us in the elite mix year-in and yet-out, and was the coach and de facto GM/DoF in a chaotic and inimitable way — you need a whole committee to fill that sort of humongous void and instill an overarching organisational philosophy.
  28. Aug 10, 2018

    Hoof The Ball Full Member

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    "We can do things in the transfer market that others teams can only dream of. Watch the Redcafe twitter feed"
    -Ed Woodward

    It is what it is. Our owners are 100% about their business. The bottom line is the profit margin. Football just happens to be their orange juice. They don't feel the need to enjoy their commodity, only manage it to the best of its financial potential.

    The owners are here to stay, and there's nothing to suggest that they are thinking about implementing a long-term footballing vision outside of short-term projects, or that which most protects their financial interests.
  29. Aug 10, 2018

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    Been saying so for two years.
  30. Aug 10, 2018

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    The problem is not who we bought or didn't buy. The problem is that we hired a manager without proper thought of what we were trying to achieve.
  31. Aug 10, 2018

    JosDeVos Full Member

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    The answer to this question has to be a resounding 'Yes' now, right?

    I mean who on earth is currently deciding that Mourinho's transfer targets aren't 'right for the club'?
  32. Aug 10, 2018

    Paranoid Android New Member

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    Financial side of the club - Woodward, who for me, is great at this.

    Director of Football - Bring someone on board who understands "the United way", and ensure that our philosophy as a football club gets drilled in from youth academy to player and staff recruitment. This philosophy should be embedded into every layer of the club: attacking, energetic, exciting football, with heavy investment in youth. The United Way. This is the club's identity, and that shouldn't be something that gets sacrificed / compromised with manager transitions.

    Manager - Any manager we bring on in the future should be guided by the identity and philosophy of the club, not the other way around. It should be their job to implement the philosophy into the players and everything that happens on the pitch.

    This is the way forward. This is how we ensure successful continuity, and escape the confused, all-over-the-place managerial mixups that have plagued us so far in the post-SAF years. We need to get everyone in the club on the same path with the same vision; we can't keep bringing new people on with wildly differing ideas and philosophies and expect everything to go smoothly.

    We are Manchester United, and that should be the thing that our managers, coaches, scouts and players mould themselves to fit.
  33. Aug 10, 2018

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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    This is the key point. Introducing one may eventually be seen as the logical decision but it isn't going to be the catch-all solution to our problems.
  34. Aug 10, 2018

    Dec9003 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    It seems like from our perspective the club needs a complete re organisation in the way it run.
    Ed Woodward is not and never will be a football man, you'd be as well asking any of us as to whether we should sign a player or not.
    I don't know if a DOF would be a complete fix, but at this point any change would be positive from him.
  35. Aug 10, 2018

    Hoof The Ball Full Member

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    I think we can all agree that Moyes, LvG, and Mourinho have diametrically different approaches to the game. The failure is on the part of the recruitment guys. Each manager spent varying amounts of money on players who best suited the way which the team was set up. Transitioning from direct to possession and then to counter-direct, has meant that recruitment could only operate in a short-mid term basis. Players bought for one manager find themselves go from tactically relevant to irrelevant under a completely different approach to the game from a different boss.

    The club is bigger than Mourinho, as great as he is, therefore, we should develop an identity, stick with it, get the necessary infrastructure in place to see that manager's recruited fit that identity and recruitment of players should be a lot more concise and straight forward.
  36. Aug 10, 2018

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Definitely.

    The benefit of having a manager-centred transfer policy is that he gets the players he asks for, which reduces a lot of potential issues on that end. If you don't trust or back his judgement in that area then you're not really getting that benefit. Meanwhile, you're also not getting the expertise a DOF could provide. The worst of both worlds.
  37. Aug 10, 2018

    Revan Assumptionman

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    Good point with regards to Juve.

    On the other side, chairman being DoF wannabe has also worked. Perez and Abramovich are the best examples, Moratti also won league titles and an UCL though that was after Juve was screwed. Juan Laporta made Barca the juggernaut it is today, although the basement was built from Lord Cruyff.

    Ed seems to me to prefer the Perez approach which is quite a risky one, but it can work as we have seen in the last few years.

    There is not a single best model or a model which cannot fail. All have strengths and weaknesses, however having a long term plan is a necessary (but not sufficient) conditions. Leaving all to the manager is not having a long term plan, which unsurprisingly made us fail and waste a gigantic amount of money.
  38. Aug 10, 2018

    Revan Assumptionman

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    How do you know that he ain't and won't ever be a football man?
  39. Aug 10, 2018

    groovyalbert Full Member

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    Won't happen whilst Jose is around, and I think our board like to keep business and football decisions separate. A DoF would blur this, somewhat.

    Personally, going forward, I'd like us to. I think our current setup is one which presupposes a longterm manager, and this is something that's less and less common in the game. If we're to assume that, at most, you'll get 5-7 years from a manager, you do need something in place to oversee the longterm footballing vision of a club. I think City are the perfect example of this, they were planning and building a setup Pep would thrive in for years. The success they're experiencing now is largely a testament to this.
  40. Aug 10, 2018

    spiriticon Full Member

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    I am keen on the idea, but it adds a layer of complexity to everything.

    The post not only takes some autonomy away from the CEO, but also the manager.

    Its a change which must be seriously considered.