Signs of Progress | Mourinho vs Van Gaal

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Wumminator, Feb 5, 2017.

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  1. Feb 17, 2017

    MikeUpNorth Wobbles like a massive pair of tits

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    Really happy with the progress that has been made this season. A few more changes in the summer and we could be in for a very good season next year. My only concern is the sheer number of games some of our key players are playing will weigh on them next season.
  2. Feb 17, 2017

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    No WC or EC means they all get a full Summer holiday though so no worries there.
  3. Feb 17, 2017

    Stacks Full Member

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    I don't know. I always found Zlatans dribbling a bit slow where as Ruud's was elegant and nimble. Also there is true discrepancy in the pace. Ruud left premier league defenders for dead and they are generally more athletic than Serie A's. Don't get me wrong, I have been converted into a Zlatanite but Ruud is my golden child.
    In the video I hope to show Ruud's nimble verson of dribbling. he reminds me a bid of Giggs :wenger:. To be Fair Zlatan's dribbling was great as well
  4. Feb 17, 2017

    Achilles McCool New Member

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    I went to post, then read this and realized that it sums up my thoughts perfectly. With the amount of games coming up in the next 3 months, Jose will need to get the squad rotation just right, but I believe in him (and the team); something I couldn't say during the Van Gaal reign. 2 out of the 3 cups won with a 4th place finish is my prediction. That optimism from me shows (imo) the progress Mourinho has made.
  5. Feb 17, 2017

    Cassidy Not to be confused with Cassady the Liverpool fan

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    What? Zlatan was certainly miles better at dribbling. Ruud was the ultimate goalscorer though. Best finisher and his movement was amazing.
  6. Feb 17, 2017

    Stacks Full Member

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    you're right. Zlatan had much more tricks and flair. I forgot. I think Ruud was better running at pace though. Maybe I am wrong
  7. Feb 17, 2017

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    I have to agree, if you look at both of them under "Top 100 Goals" video montage then Zlatan is in a different league

    I love RVN though.
  8. Feb 17, 2017

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    What?! There's no way you've watched enough of Zlatan in his prime.
  9. Feb 17, 2017

    Stacks Full Member

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    such a long time ago. But having just had a refresher, Zlatan was much better dribbler. Ruud had surprisingly quick feet in the box
  10. Feb 17, 2017

    Regulus Arcturus Black Full Member

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    Haha, there's an entire debate on that which I'm gonna steer massively clear of for a while, but yeah his dribbling prime was back at Inter, no question. :lol:

    I'll say it again though, I loved Ruud, unbelievable player.
  11. Feb 17, 2017

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Martial played regularly up top for us.

    Pace wise there really isn't much difference between Zlatan and Costa.

    The reason why they have space to get in behind is because that space is created by him dropping deep. There's not a player on this planet who can drop deep, turn and then keep up with the likes of Mkhitaryan.

    Of course alternatives to Zlatan could be faster, much like Messi could be stronger, or Aguero taller. What we have fits our style of play well, pace up top isn't going to make a great deal of difference when we already have three speed demons in our side. Zlatan's strengths are far more important to us in our current set up and his lack of pace (he isn't even exactly slow) barely hinders us.
  12. Feb 17, 2017

    Matab8r New Member

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    Still can't beleive the 2 managers are being compared. I'm an Aussie and have been getting up between 12am- 7am for close to 3 decades now for every match ( league,cups & euro ) first decade was on AUS ABC radio then pay TV followed and Aussies are lucky to be able to see all games live these days ( albeit at shit hours )

    Van Gaal's second and final year was the only time in my life I have skipped games and had actually involuntarily fallen asleep by half time. Could not give a feck if we don't win no cup or make the champions league, I am just happy to be able to enjoy my team again.
  13. Feb 17, 2017

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    Still a few but most have stopped.
  14. Feb 17, 2017

    Dobba Full Member

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    It isn't just Zlatan, it's the depth of the squad and the reliance on older players, particularly in midfield. Depth at a club like United shouldn't be 'he's getting on a bit but he can play the odd game here and then when we want to rest people' it should be players who could come in and play every game for a month or two, whether that is due to injury or poor form to others.
  15. Feb 17, 2017

    Cassidy Not to be confused with Cassady the Liverpool fan

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    That isn't Joses fault. Especially since in the summer we signed a couple of relatively young players in Bailly and Pogba
  16. Feb 17, 2017

    Dobba Full Member

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    Absolutely, which is why I'd only see it as a management issue if it's still a problem come the start of the next campaign.
  17. Feb 17, 2017

    crossy1686 Full Member

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    God, I forgot about that sinking feeling of waiting for the opposition to score a goal and knowing that we'd be lucky if we score one and managed to draw.
  18. Feb 17, 2017

    DanBorja Full Member

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    Same here, I just wouldn't trade my sleep for watching LVGs United. Now with Mourinho the alarm clock is set to every weekend again.
  19. Feb 17, 2017

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Seems a really strange thing to crib about when you consider how much Fergie relied on the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Evra and Rio well into their 30s.

    The age profile of our current squad is excellent. Zlatan and Carrick the only players at imminent risk of decline (Rooney too, although that's been handled excellently so far) with the vast majority of our best XI likely to get better and better over the next few years. You have to be really stretching for reasons to criticise the manager to come up with this as a problem created by Mourinho.
  20. Feb 17, 2017

    GrandJury New Member

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    Right so where do we begin with the gulf in progress that has happened since we brought in Mourinho to replace Van-Gaal? There's so many different areas but I'll just mention four that have stood out to me.

    1. Transfers and man management - Players who the managers have identified to bring in to Manchester United and leave out of the team:

    Van-Gaal's main arrival transfers over his two season term:

    2014/2015
    Ángel Di María £52.50m
    Luke Shaw £26.25m
    Ander Herrera £25.20m
    Marcos Rojo £14.00m
    Daley Blind £12.25m
    Falcao loan: £5.32m

    2015/2016
    Morgan Schneiderlin £24.50m
    Memphis Depay £19.25m
    Bastian Schweinsteiger £12.60m
    Matteo Darmian £12.60m
    Sergio Romero Free transfer

    Mourinho's arrival transfers over a one season term:

    2016/2017:
    Eric Bailly - £30m
    Paul Pogba - £89m
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic - Free
    Henrikh Mkhitaryan - £26.3m

    Honestly is there really much analysis needed? Van-Gaal to me seemed to be just buying without any idea of what the team actually needed. Jose Mourinho on the other hand has come in and bought players who have been a huge success and instantly impacted the team in their first season with the club. He has also massively improved players who Van-Gaal had bought such as Herrera, Rojo and Blind as well as getting rid of many of the players who frankly shouldn't even have been at this club. He's dropped any player he hasn't deemed good enough, kept any player who was good under Van-Gaal and is slowly replacing the team with quality replacements. His transfer activity in the summer was immaculate and shows just how good he actually is (bearing in mind there was also an international tournament on making it more difficult).

    2. Match performances

    Last season we were boring. We were so boring I could barely be bothered to watch our games, constantly passing the ball around with no penetration while our oppositions just sat back and soaked whatever little pressure we would create. Some games waiting until the 70+ minute before we had even registered a shot on target and then wondering why we hadn't scored. Mourinho has come in and quite frankly we are playing the best attacking football I have seen in years, probably matching Sir Alex's last season. With Van-Gaal it never felt like we were progressing in the right direction but were just doing the same things praying eventually it would pay off. This season you can see what Jose is trying to do and you can see our progress during the season. His tactics are clear, the team is progressing and we are clearly going in the right direction to be challenging for major trophies again.

    3. Manager conduct

    Nobody doubts Jose Mourinho wants to win every competition he is in. He wants to win every game he is in. Van-Gaal was running with the excuse bus as soon as we came 5th in the Premier League and quite frankly fans do not like it. Then we have the conduct during matches of Van-Gaal sitting in his chair with a glum look on his face as if he's happy that we are losing at home to Southampton. Mourinho is on the touchline giving instructions, showing when he isn't happy and celebrating with the fans when things go well. It's an absolute joy to see after Van-Gaal.

    4. He has managed to drop Rooney - A feat which everyone thought would lead to revolt in the dressing room and a complete media outcry. Huge props to him for doing it with such ease.

    I remember telling all my United friends I'd rather have Jose Mourinho over any other manager in the world at United when it was being speculated and so far he is making me incredibly happy that I told my friends that and we have him. There's going to be some fantastic times under Mourinho coming up I feel and the funny thing is this barely scratches the surface of our improvements.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  21. Feb 17, 2017

    shaky Full Member

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    They'll be back the moment we drop any points in the league.
  22. Feb 17, 2017

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    Long may they be fecked off
  23. Feb 17, 2017

    Dobba Full Member

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    Fergie relying on those players certainly helped in the short term, in no small part to the manager being the greatest the game has ever seen, but their continued reliance or indeed absence in the season or two after he'd gone was a problem.

    Mourinho has had two transfer windows and already taken a big step towards fixing any issue I have with the squad by bringing young(er) players into midfield and central defence, the fact there are, as you say, only 3 players that are first team regulars in the list is testament to that. Players like BFS and Young are still a little too high in the pecking order though. I think he'll do the same again in the summer and focus on the positions they play, especially after his comments about fixture build up in recent weeks, whether that is by promoting youth - there are certainly a couple of players who I'd like to be given a shot in the summer - or making signings.

    I'm not saying sack the manager and completely decimate the squad, I just hope a bit of a fluke season on the injury front doesn't make the club second guess striking while the iron is hot and continuing the work they've started.
  24. Feb 17, 2017

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    These quotes from an interview with Michael Keane really pissed me off. The idea that Van Gaal did us a big favour in terms of his skill at youth development gets blown out of the water by stuff like this. Ditching Keane and keeping Tyler Blacket because... left-footed. Just goes to show any positives in terms of youth development were more by luck than judgement. Hence Rashford never would have got his debut if it wasn't for a freakish run of injuries.
  25. Feb 18, 2017

    Jonno Full Member

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    Pretty sure our midfield is reliant on 23 year old Pogba and 27 year old Hererra.
  26. Feb 18, 2017

    Isotope Full Member

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    But also they're one year older and more league experience, though ;)
  27. Feb 18, 2017

    Nevilles.Wear.Prada Full Member

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    With Mourinho, you have the feeling that its all just a matter of time before we start to click. Under LVG, we all had that feeling its all just a matter of time before Mourinho's arrival.
  28. Feb 18, 2017

    RC89 Full Member

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    You're right, five points isn't really enough. But unlike under Van Gaal, we have genuinely dropped loads of points by way of draws which should have really been wins. At the same time, I do think though it's not down to luck and just a lack of ability in front of goal. Back to your point though, if we continue playing well, you might just see the 10 points difference.
  29. Feb 18, 2017

    RC89 Full Member

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    Absolutely. Under Van Gaal, we had the ball and would gain half a yard with each pass and it took us forever to try and and carve real chances.
  30. Feb 18, 2017

    pilky02 Banned

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    Whoscored team of the week had 3 of our players again; Martial, Mata, Pogba and the opposition keeper Gomez. Last season David de Gea was regularly making it and a few of the oppositions players.
  31. Feb 18, 2017

    Lawman Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    Whatever it was (reason) Pogue he still put the youngsters in the team and gave them a run of games so should be accredited with the success. That he chose wrongly in Blackett and Keane is irrelevant. That can happen and obviously did but then that's how it goes.
  32. Feb 18, 2017

    Eire Red United Full Member

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    Stopped reading when I saw that...
  33. Feb 18, 2017

    krazyrobus Full Member

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    I'm impressed you read that far!
  34. Feb 18, 2017

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    You should stop reading as soon as you saw who the poster was. If you ever had the misfortune of reading their posts in the past then you will know what I mean

    One of the worst posters on here
  35. Feb 18, 2017

    Fingeredmouse Full Member

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    I'm not generally one for definitive statements, but if anyone can't see how obviously better we now are under Mourinho than we were under Van Gaal then they have some sort of clinical illness.
  36. Feb 18, 2017

    Eire Red United Full Member

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    Apologies lads, only new here so I'll know for again lol
  37. Feb 18, 2017

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    They are lying to themselves out of embarrassment for defending the indefensible.

    They are choosing to go down with their own ships rather than admit to the obvious
  38. Feb 18, 2017

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    Yeah if you were around for longer you would have seen certain negative agendas and who the usual culprits are

    There was a weird LVG cult last season and they are trying to lash out this season but are being kept quiet because of our decent form but even then you get the odd comment like that as a snipe at JM who they openly and admittedly hate. They hope he fails so they can laud it against the rest of us
  39. Feb 18, 2017

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    It's interesting that they are sticking to the same rhetoric, rather than admit, "Hey, we were wrong...Jose is actually doing a great job".

    At present, we are almost unbeatable (I could not say something like this at anytime during the last 3 seasons). The last time we lost was to Hull, in a 2 leg match, which we won. Before that when did we lose? Was it against Chelsea, the best team in the league?

    Under LVG, I would be fearing our next opponent because I had an inkling that we would struggle to create a single chance. It was a borefest. Under Jose, our aim to score goals, which brings entertainment.
  40. Feb 18, 2017

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    Agree completely. Under Jose I feel a goal is coming and sit on the edge of my seat and actually have an opportunity to rue missed chances rather than throw food at the TV under LVG when we could not even get a single shot on target game after game.
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