Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Tarrou, Jan 11, 2019.
And Mourinho hadn't show the Glazer's that he was able to spot top CBs, hence he wasn't backed.
I'm not sure about the point that you are trying to make but United only sell players that have failed or are failing, it's not a club that sell players to make money or when they are at their peak.
The Glazer topic isnt black or white. It is very grey.
They do want us to be the best club in the world. Let’s be honest. I don’t think their aim is to make us get top four yearly. I do think they want us to be number one.
However they are businessmen so won’t do it like City, PSG. So yes, maybe if Ole is a cheap option they’ll take it. But his costs isn’t the only thing that is attractive about Ole. He could just be the right choice. We’ll find out at the end of the season.
Also, maybe we don’t need a DOF. We’ve lost our way the past 5 years, but maybe Ed Woodward is moulding into the one we want. I don’t know. Obviously a very unpopular opinion. But getting Ole in was a very impressive choice by Ed.
Of all managers to accuse of not knowing how to spot a top CB. Mourinho. Dear me.
You think? From the media briefings it seems he was told he should get Varane or nobody.
Yeah, but apart from that...
Of course but business is not always about saving money.
Nobody wanted LvG or Mourinho to change. LvG's possession style if perfected would have been fairly entertaining. And we wanted Mourinho's counter attacking football we saw at Real, which was quite decent and entertaining in a different way to attacking football the likes of Ole etc play.
The trouble was both were past it and unable to recreate their glory days. The shite LvG and Mourinho produced was nowhere near their Ajax or Madrid days. The fans and their expectations aren't to blame.
As for Ole, he still has to prove himself and he has 5 months to do so. Poch would be a good bet to win trophies with us as we have a winning mentality already ingrained in the club culture unlike Spurs.
I think an important point with the Glazers is that while money has been spent, it's been spent terribly. For example, our wages are ridiculous - Fred - 120,000, Mata - 140,000. This compares with players at our European rivals, like Dybala, on 120,000. We also have absolutely no scouting system. Why do we have gaping holes in our central defence and right wing, even after spending 600m in 5 years? The new director of football will be the most important addition to this squad, not the manager. I feel as if Ole will be just fine, particularly with the talented coaches we already have in the club.
It's so early to judge with Ole, this Spurs game will be a much bigger test for instance. I've felt from the start that he'd been told the job wasn't on the table long term, obviously under extreme circumstances things could change but I think his job is mainly to steady the ship and bring the good vibes back to the club on a personal level.
If he did get the job I don't think he'd be a Glazer puppet and if the fans felt he wasn't being backed I think the Glazers would face a much louder backlash from the match going fans.
Could be an issue, there will be players who have concerns about putting their careers in the hands of a manager who hasn't done anything.
Yeah can't argue with much of that, there are no/few good owners. I don't think the majority of PL purchases are actually seen as investments by the purchasers though, they are mostly vanity projects. Almost everyone loses money historically, and obviously all the foreign owners know that, they just want to own a PL club. They'd have to be the worst investors ever if they thought they'd get ROI on these clubs.
Well that's not true.
LVG's Netherlands in World Cup was extremely tedious and boring and Bayern also said in his sacking announcement that his football wasn't fun for anyone at the club, and Mourinho has never been known for playing breath taking football. People wanted Mourinho to change here and play football suited for United which is direct attacking but it wasn't going to happen. LVG wasn't going to change his defensive possession based football that he has been using ever eince his Bayern days for us too.
You sign a manager, you get what they offer. Don't sign a manager and expect him to provide you with things they never showed. That's our problem as a club imo. We sign managers based on hopes United will ''change" them. Instead, we should hire mamagers that has already provided what we ask for, which is trophies + good football. Now we're making the same mistake with Poch, expecting him to change and starts to provide trophies while he already has one of the best teams in the league. He's not managing an underdog. Spurs has the 3rd best team in the league at least.
Indeed, and there's nothing wrong with that from a management perspective. Just means they're considering every factor when they appoint. What I disagree with is this notion that anyone business minded will always take the path that involves the lowest cash expenditure right now, simply because "they're businessmen".
I agree and I don't think that is true
if Ole wouldnt be backed I don't think there would be any backlash whatsoever.
If OLE stays, it means he deserves it, if we do a season similar to these past 5 games, then im all for it!
It's possible what you say is the case. Varane seems unobtainable, mind.
I'm struggling to think of top CBs he's unearthed. He knew Carvalho from Porto, so that doesn't count. He inherited Terry at Chelsea. He may have been able to coach CBs and improve them at one time but he lost his mojo some time ago.
They're good businessmen too, look at the fees from sponsorships we're getting now, imagine the size they'd rise to when we get back to winning major trophies. Not only the sponsorships but the value of the club has rose a great deal under their ownership also, this will only rise, as we get back to doing great things.
The only top CB that wasn’t in his winning teams he bought was Lucio, and he was hardly an unknown.
The CL will always be an issue but it’s only a season and Pogba was happy enough to sign. I think he can attract big players and potential signings will see him just the way us fans and the outside world will over the next 5 months.
I might be wrong but I can’t see players not signing because of OGS. What’s not to like about the bloke ? He has to prove he can handle the heat but if he does then he strikes me as a guy I’d love to work for.
No! I hate to say it, but what is good for the club will be good for the owners. We can always try to imagine conflicting scenarios, but in most cases it is not very realistic.
And you could also look at it from another angle. If we spend less on Ole than Poch, that might motivate the owners to spend more on players to ensure that the «cheap» coach succeed.
Are we still blaming the Glazers/Ed for Mourinho being shit?
OT, difficult one but I hope Ole ends up proving enough to be considered for the permanent role.
Agreed. Also, players want to play for Manchester United and have grown up watching United be successful with Solskjaer in the team. Now he's manager and the team are scoring goals for fun, nah, count me out, I'll join Jose at Madrid instead...
Personally, I'm glad they didn't back him more in the summer. I certainly don't blame them for the mess he created. I guess I'm just concerned that after 6 years of throwing good money after bad, they'll take the easy (and potentially incorrect) option.
And if they have any doubts on OGS, all they need to do is call up our Spanish or French or the Belgian mafia.
Well, the easy option in their minds may not be the cheapest one, and therein lies the problem. For all we know, Ed might want to stick with his Disneyland vision, looking at how Madrid leapfrogged us in values in the early 2000s with their Galacticos, sacrificing team cohesion and undermining the DoF/manager.
A big concern of mine wouldn’t be his transfer kitty, with our previous managers it was generally quite easy to point to their successful and unsuccessful transfers, I don’t know anything about his time at Molde so I’d like to know a bit more about his transfer policy, what his success rate is with his transfers etc.
Which is why we are trying to get a DoF. The manager alone need not take decisions like those.
He hadn’t at United, which I think was his point. Lindelof and Bailly haven’t been massive successes.
I think this is a difficult moment in our club's history. Ole has plenty of challenges coming up that will tell us plenty about his ability to both man manage and tactically manage the team. He checks a lot of other boxes with his personality, the feel at the club and the fact that he's an alum, and he's gotten of to a good start to boot. He has the lads playing enjoyable, entertaining football and I'm enjoying his tenure as all of you are too I'm sure, but I'm trying to keep perspective that these bottom dwelling teams should be handled by our squad and the real tests to show his ability are yet to come. Spurs are a good first test.
If we decide to keep him on long term, my hope is that we get a good football man to go between Ole and Woodward to cast a vision (style of play and personnel required) for the direction of the club. And then I hope we continue to get the investment each offseason according to our football director's vision. The vision should be in sync with the type of football Ole can coach and lead.
When Ed signed LvG, he clearly made a statement that we had scouted LvG keeping his Barca and Ajax playing style in mind. So the club viewed LvG as taking us in the direction of Cruyff-ball, or something like it. The boring style was never on their minds, which was due to their incompetence -- maybe they thought the international games were one-offs.
If I remember correctly, Bayern actually complained LvG's football was too attacking with no defensive nous!! I think Lahm made a statement to the effect. Whatever he did there, it was a polar opposite to what he did with us, with just the results being equally crap.
Mourinho's Madrid style was quite fantastic at it's peak, I remember many hoping he could recreate it. Personally, I expected him to as well.
Sorry, the only fault lies in Ed's incompetence in not seeing they were both past it. You are tacitly absolving LvG and Jose of blame, as though the shite they produced with us is what they played throughout their careers. Surely you don't think that having seen their hey-days.
He’s in a decent vein of form and looking better but before that he was largely poor.
Was Bailly reckless and injury prone before we signed him?
Haven't a clue.
1. The scouts have some responsibility for that. They need to be identifying players we can sign
2. Jose made it known Lindelof was good on the ball and better on the right. Either way, the lad needed time
3. It just shows the board know nothing because Lindelof clearly has talent
Then we'd deserve everything we get, fans have to use their voice, if the Glazers appoint Ole and don't back him and fans don't get vocal about this and back Ole, it'll be a shame.
Yeah it’s a tough one, but nothing suggests that they’ve taken the “easy or cheap” option before. If that makes sense.
Either way - getting a managerial appointment right seems touch and go. Especially with no DoF or squad vision in place.
Just to address those not convinced about Poch. He is easily the best manager in the PL for the last 2-3 seasons. With a net spend of £20 odd million he has improved Spurs year by year to the point they’re in the title race and still in all four comps.
Yes, he is doing a better job than Klopp and Pep considering the resources they have.
Poch coming to UTD would be the best signing we could make for years to come.
Anyways, my point is, unless the player is an obvious hot head or injury prone before, Mourinho would have picked him on his abilities. If he comes here and becomes injury prone, then there is little Jose could have done.
Same with Lindelof. The scouts and Jose would have spotted the abilities. Maybe he thought that his lack of aerial abilities was acceptable because he showed talent in other areas.
As Jose said, he works with scouts and gives 2-3 player names with preference order, that fit the profile he is looking for. Then it is up to Woodward to get the players that he can.
Personally, I haven't written off either of the players. I have written off Jones and Rojo though.
Separate names with a comma.