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Solskjaer is a worryingly easy out for the Glazers

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Tarrou, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Jan 11, 2019

    #07 makes new threads with tweets in the OP

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    Disagree with the OP.

    Ole is actually a patron of MUST and one of the few United first team players at the time of the Glazer takeover who publicly opposed it.

    If Ole gets the job it would be because the results have markedly improved. Further, if Ole gets the job and the board didn't back him for whatever reason the liklihood that the fans would calmly let them screw him over is for the birds.

    Ole is almost unanimously loved by United fans. If the crowd at Old Trafford felt the board was hanging Ole out to dry it would erupt in a way that hasn't been seen since the green and gold protests. The crowd backed Jose for a bit, just because they thought the board was doing bad by him. Could you imagine how the crowd would be if they felt the board was doing over a guy who, unlike Jose, literally everyone adores?
  2. Jan 11, 2019

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    Yep, a guy who we all (almost) unanimously call a United legend.
  3. Jan 11, 2019

    pocco loco

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    I have the same concerns. You can already sense he's towing the party line a bit. The main issue for me is that they know the fans won't turn on him ever, so it'll keep people happy for longer, no matter what.
  4. Jan 11, 2019

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    the issue was that Jose discussed those two or three players and when the time to make the final decision he throws out names that no one has ever discussed in the past. All new names. His transfer policy has been extremely poor at United for sure. I do not know about his other clubs.

    As for Ole no he is here right now till the end of the season. If he can get this team going with the current players the Board will back him and keep him. If he cannot then he is willing to go and the Board will bring another Manager. I hope that he succeeds.
  5. Jan 11, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    Here're 2 quotes about LVG's time at Bayern from their board :

    https://www.goal.com/en/news/15/ger...-uli-hoeness-louis-van-gaal-was-nearly-sacked

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles...van-gaals-sacking-in-2011-sounds-familiar-now

    LVG did nothing new here since what he has been doing since his Bayern days : Play a turgid defensive possession based football to keep the opponent from having the ball while giving only one attacking player freedom to create (Robben/Martial). He applied his style here perfectly, it was just shite. It was our mistake for scouting and bringing expecting different things.

    Similarly we brought Mourinho who, except for 2 or 3 seasons in his career, has been always about winning ugly and grinding wins, then expected him to play differently here. Doesn't make sense.

    It's our problem at this point. You signed 2 defensively based managers (in different ways) then expected them to play different kind of football here. I hate LVG myself, but the point is he shouldn't have been appointed from the start if the target was great football, same for Mourinho. The problem both didn't win much here to cover for their style of play, unlike their previous teams.

    These things are from the past now. What doesn't make sense now is thinking about making the same mistake again, bringing a manager who proved several times with Spurs his limits is top 4 finish and expecting him to lead to the glory days and trophies like Poch. How can that be possible ? I thought we have already learned.

    If Spurs don't have a winning mentality it's down to their manager. Their main lineup is 3rd best in the league at least. Their squad depth issues is the same for all other top clubs in the league bar City. There're no excuses for them to crumple under the slightest pressure when they're close to win something. If they can't handle pressure and don't have winning mentality, it's their manager's problem in installing it to them, and provide warning signings that he may fail under a more stressful job as United or Madrid.

    If we want Poch, we have to accept he's going to offer what he has been providing : top 4, decent football and beating some big teams. Does that warrant us to throw 40m at him while we can get the same or more with other easier choices as Ole or Jardim ? So far Poch has provided zero indications he's going to offer more than both.
  6. Jan 11, 2019

    Bubz27 No I won’t change your tag line

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    Maybe, but the idea of any businessman wanting to save potentially hundreds of millions of they can get a good job out of something much cheaper isn't exactly unheard of.

    Especially from owners who have in the past shown that top 4, and the money that comes with that, is important to them.

    On the other hand, another dud could cost them more than a few hundred million.
  7. Jan 11, 2019

    Red_toad Full Member

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    No one is saying the lowest possible cost. More keeping their own personal revenue high and keeping the club on an arsenal type budget as long as top 4 happens. They sure have history for this with Tampa. It can also be seen at United, no major investment unless top four doesn't happen.
  8. Jan 11, 2019

    Kapardin Full Member

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    Those quotes say the players weren't having fun due to the tactical strait-jacket, not that it wasn't attacking. Here's what Lahm says:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11890/6873523/lahm-voiced-van-gaal-concerns

    Here's what Ed said on hiring LvG:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...ouis-van-gaals-attacking-football-3886382.amp

    Clearly, LvG sold Ed the dream that he could recreate his glory days here. So they ignored the fact that he was past it.

    Mourinho was attacking with Chelsea (1st season) and Madrid. He was always pragmatic, but it was never the mess we saw here, or quite as boring bar some big games where he parked the bus.

    Woodward hired him on the presumption that we would see some good counter attacking football and a few goals, having seen possession footy didn't work. He hired an outdated manager again, as Mourinho's method of man-management does not work anymore to coax those exemplary performances from players.

    We signed two out of date managers, period. As for your concern about Poch, it's quite baseless as every top manager has trophies as his aim. Just because he hasn't won a LC or FA Cup with Spurs doesn't mean he won't succeed here as one needs to provide managers with proper psychological motivations as well -- a good transfer budget, a sense of job security and a tolerant fanbase.

    Poch has some faults but they can be ironed out at a big club like ours. His progression is logical. But I won't say more on this until he's hired, as that isn't even a given yet.
  9. Jan 11, 2019

    Subho611 Banned

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    This is a hopelessly negative thread. Why are we resorting to hopeless fearmongering just after being released from the spell of the most boring manager ever.

    The idea that somehow Pocchetino can force Glazers to spend more on the club is laughable. Look at home much he is making Levy spend. FFS, he doesn’t even have the authority to sanction sales early in the window - Levy always haggles till the very end, thus disrupting his plans.

    Glazers have spend too much money. In fact, because we had the money, we haven’t used our fecking brains in the last few years. More than money, what this team needs right now is a definite structure and a long term vision. Only then can you fit in the right pieces for success.
  10. Jan 11, 2019

    Tarrou Full Member

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    Nah it's really not laughable. If they're gonna convince him to leave his project they'll need to make some big assurances.
  11. Jan 11, 2019

    Subho611 Banned

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    It is laughable, considering how much Poch has spent at Tottenham, and how much we spend anyways with our managers every year.

    We are talking about a manager who unearthed players like Kane, Ali, and Son.
  12. Jan 11, 2019

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    Why should United even try to get him to leave Spurs if Ole can make it work?
  13. Jan 11, 2019

    Tarrou Full Member

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    you keep ignoring the reason and talking about something different
  14. Jan 11, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    Players usually say nice things about managers either there currently or after they left. Our players too said nice things about LVG and Mourinho. I remember Shaw said Mourinho was letting his fullbacks both upfront and attacking. Here it's. Was that right ?

    http://thepeoplesperson.com/2016/08...tacking-football-at-manchester-united-157650/

    The main base here is what the board says about managers as they don't talk diplomatic, and "players weren't having fun due to the tactical strait-jacket" actually equals having a turgid possession based system that restricted everyone which is what he exactly did here.

    Poch has all these with Spurs except for the transfer budget which is a useless argument as again, they're not underdogs. They have several players that will go straight into all the other top clubs without issues. The values of players like Kane, Eriksen and Alli is extremely huge in the current market and the top clubs will struggle to buy them for the fees asked for him, so he's not working on thin ice. Actually their full attacking line will go straight into our lineup, and his defensive choices are better than ours as well, and you can't convince me his lineup isn't as strong as Liverpool's one on paper. This isn't an underdog team.

    He already has a pretty strong team, stronger than several other top clubs here and he has failed to install any winning mentality on them or make them tougher under pressure. If a team keeps crumpling under pressure every time, you can't simply absolve the manager of the blame and say it's the team in general, doesn't make any sense. It's his problem at this point. His teams struggle whenever they're put under spot and media talks about them being title winning potential. Spurs seem to only win when no one expects things from them. How is that not their manager's problem ?

    These are definitely warning signings you have to put in consideration when targeting him as the next manager. So far he proved he can get you top 4 regularly and play decent football, but he has proved nothing about, I won't say winning trophies, nope, I'll say proving he can make his team tough under pressure and endure high expectations when they arise. It's easy to win when things aren't expected from you but the fact that once people start to expect high things from Spurs then they go on and bottle the next match to return to be a non favorite for anything, it's extremely worrying sign about his mentality as a manager and how he prepares his team in such situations.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  15. Jan 11, 2019

    reddaz71 Banned

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    He won't call Woodward and the Glazers out like Mourinho so regardless of his standing with the fans he is essentially a yes man and a PR stunt, Ole is just happy to be here and tow the line as in fact he already is doing so by complimenting the structure of the club!
  16. Jan 11, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol:

    Well we are damned no matter what then.
    I do hope that we beat Spurs, City, Liverpool and PSG though.
  17. Jan 11, 2019

    Henrik Larsson Still logged in at RAWK (help!)

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    The fact that Manchester United has spent a serious amount of money over the last years really shouldn't be confused with the fact that that pretty much everything indicates that the Glazers are mostly interested in doing the bare minimum to keep their club competitive, while making a significant yearly profit for themselves as well.
  18. Jan 11, 2019

    worldinmotion66 Full Member

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    Sorry @haram but you seem so desperate to defend Mourinho that you are finding every excuse to not blame him (are you actually the man himself? :eek:)

    If I were running a football club and my manager had spent upwards of £400m, in the way that he chose to, and having bought two centre backs previously, I'd begin to question his ability to make these type of decisions. No one can argue that the Glaziers aren't in it for the money, they clearly are, but it's unfair to criticise their willingness to spend. Our net spend is greater than most of the sides above us in the league, so spending has never been the issue. How it has been spent is another issue entirely. Whether Mourinho had complete control over transfers is debatable, but he simply didn't get enough from the talent at his disposal.

    On topic, I think it is easy out if he is relatively successful. The owners want us to be competing with the best, they know that it's important to keep the money rolling in. Let's just wait and see how the season unfolds, we're still in two huge competitions and any league form would only be a massive bonus imo.
  19. Jan 11, 2019

    Subho611 Banned

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    You keep ignoring the style of the manager in question. Of course he will be given assurances but your premise is wrong - Glazers are not trying to run the club in the most frugal way possible.

    We would spend money under any manager - not just Pocchetino. You are again taking about a board that has sanctioned millions of dollars to buy players over the last few years. Also did not hesitate to give Mourinho a fat payout just to get him to leave.

    All you have to support your argument is some weird myth about how Glazers operate. Not only are you blaming them of frugality when they have invested heavily, you are also doing a massive disservice to Ole just by assuming that he doesn’t have enough ambition and just wants to get the job by being an ass licker.
  20. Jan 11, 2019

    Kapardin Full Member

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    That interview wasn't an encomium. Lahm was talking about the reason why LvG had failed at Bayern, not praising him.

    And you yourself can read Ed's quotes as to why he hired LvG.

    This is conjecture, simply contradicting what Lahm and Ed have said, and also ignoring LvG actually has a record of playing highly entertaining football.

    Attacking possession football also "strait-jackets" players. Seen how Pep is obsessed with tactics? You are talking as though attacking football requires no tactical discipline at all. Difference is when it works, players like it as it boosts their stats as well (the forwards).

    About Poch, as I said, no point in talking about him until there is evidence we are going to hire him.
  21. Jan 11, 2019

    Tarrou Full Member

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    okay great, so you agree.

    I'm not actually blaming them for anything you've just invented that

    I'm suggesting there is a risk their motivations might not be in the clubs best interests at this pivotal moment
  22. Jan 11, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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    United's great wealth seems to have done them no good whatsoever in the post-Ferguson era. We have spent heavily on transfers, pay breath-taking salaries, yet finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th and a distant 2nd.

    New managers have come in (LVG and Mourinho especially) and given the impression that they thought half the squad was useless, then bought players who turned out to be no better.

    Get the most out of our current group of players, likewise the emerging talent from the youth set-up.

    Buy one, two or three, carefully chosen players. Don't offer huge salaries. Stop assuming the answer is some glamorous signing who performed well in a totally different system. That applies as much if Pochettino is the manager, as if Solskjaer gets the job.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  23. Jan 11, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

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    I am a bit confused though. Are you saying the bare minimum was high or something?
    Spending is spending.
  24. Jan 11, 2019

    Ban Full Member

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    Agreed.. Thing is, remember when Fergie was restricted with finances, theres was a short period of green and gold movement and that was basically that.
  25. Jan 11, 2019

    Stepney73 New Member

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    What investment????

    They have loaded all the takeover debt on the club and have not put one penny of their own money in.
    they have just drained money out for well over a decade.

    Just what does the likes of darcey glazer actually do for Utd despite being on the payroll.

    They are leeches end of and the sooner they sell up and F..k Off the better.
  26. Jan 11, 2019

    Henrik Larsson Still logged in at RAWK (help!)

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    This is probably why you are confused.
  27. Jan 11, 2019

    Subho611 Banned

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    Yeah, like we haven’t spent money under the Glazers. Again you haven’t been able to back up your concern with actual proof.
  28. Jan 11, 2019

    Tarrou Full Member

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    There is nothing to prove because it hasn't happened. I'm just flagging it as a possibility.

    If you don't think its a valid concern, no problem.
  29. Jan 11, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Let's hope Tottenham(this weekend), and City, Liverpool and Chelsea in the 2nd half of the season, and PSG in the Champions League royally show us our backsides so the option of the Glazers taking the worryingly easy out option is removed, sorted.
  30. Jan 11, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    I don't get why you're quoting Ed while his incompetence in the job is a concern we're still doubting.

    The point is as I said players will always talk nicely about current and ex managers because they have to be diplomatic in front of the media. You won't hear any of our players bashing LVG or Mourinho too now. They'll talk nicely about them. The Bayern board's quotes are more of a proof as they don't talk diplomatic and Hoeness is known for talking brutal honestly without caring about choosing his words in front of the camera.

    As for the Pep vs LVG, I'm sure this has been brought several times but Pep don't restrict his attackers players in his possession based football. This quote of Henry who trained under him was posted here several times as far as I'm concerned. Pep wanted discipline from his midfielders, but once the ball reaches the forwards in the final third, it's up to them to get the ball in the net and they have full freedom with where they move. The midfield area is where Pep puts his instructions to stay in position and pass the ball, up till the last third then it's up the players.

    https://www.goal.com/en/news/722/la...explains-pep-guardiolas-secret-tactic-formula

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/thierry-henry-reveals-pep-guardiolas-7077518

    This is different strategy from LVG's one. LVG doesn't give freedom to anyone bar 1 attacking player who keeps the attacking spark in the team. The whole rest of the team including the forwards are restricted to their positions and hence the turgid football that extends upfront. His Bayern team was just stop Robben and it's over for them (Ironically that's what Inter did in this CL final). In Netherlands, it was Robben again and here it was Martial. That's unlike Pep who doesn't depend on a single man upfront and allows his 3 forwards up front freedom to roam everywhere while restricting the possession to midfield.

    The other obvious difference is Pep wanted the team to pass forward and used his possession for offensive reasons unlike LVG who looks at possession as a means to stop the opponent from getting the ball, and he has been like that in his last 3 jobs now.

    Yeah attacking football doesn't mean going full non discipline but at the same time if you're not giving some freedom to your forwards to move on their own then the result will be restricted and turgid football. The main difference between someone like Pep and LVG is Pep knows in which areas of the pitch his players should be restricted to the plan and in which areas they should move freely, while LVG was applying this restriction to all areas of the pitch.

    Anyway I think we're getting this thread out of the track. :D
  31. Jan 11, 2019

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    My feeling as well. Stop worrying lads.
  32. Jan 11, 2019

    Rish Sawhney New Member

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    Also I don’t see what Lahm said as contradicting what the Bayern hierarchy said. What Lahm calls too attacking was tru of his United term as well. If your definition of attacking is “played a high line possession based system”.

    But here people started calling it defensive because it was quite risk averse when trying to break down packed defenses. To what extent that was instruction vs. players being too timid (LvG’s post match comments about how the players have to be “horny” comes to mind) can be debated. I think it wasn’t quite as rigid as @el3mel is saying, but his general point is correct. LvG’s time with us wasn’t all that different from his previous work.
  33. Jan 11, 2019

    Tarrou Full Member

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    This is a huge decision for the club, don't you think it deserves a bit more scrutiny?

    Its not like they've got the last three appointments right is it.
  34. Jan 11, 2019

    Subho611 Banned

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    There are enough data points to show that Glazers are willing to spend money. If fact, we have been spending like drunken sailors - as someone pointed out earlier. In fact, the money has actually limited our long term thinking and strategy as we have chased the short-term fix every window.

    In this context, to raise the concern that Glazers might give OGS the job because he will be less demanding of them, in terms of financial resources, is unfounded. To be taken seriously, you need to show some indication or sign that this is a real possibility.
  35. Jan 11, 2019

    ottosec Full Member

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    This is a two-edged sword actually.

    While you might or might not be right - there is no way for you to know - it's also true that if we will be shit, no fan will blame Ole, we will all blame the Glazers and Woodward.



    I keep seeing people taking it as a given that Ole is not good enough. Why is that? Is that based on his 3-4 months stint at Cardiff, who were pretty much already relegated when he took over?

    People act like he is some sort of a greenboy that is just starting as a manager. But he's been managing for quite some time and he's been doing well in his part of the world, as far as I know.


    I personally think that Pochettino is a good manager, but for those who think that he is some football Mesia, you'll do well to remember that he hasn't won a single trophy in his career.

    Sure, he's overachieving with the resources he has at his disposal and plays good football, but how does that matter to us? We're loaded and we demand trophies.

    He is yet to have a high-pressure job like United, where he must win trophies. Levy doesn't give a shit about trophies as long as he works cheap and gets them into CL every year.
  36. Jan 11, 2019

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    I think if anything this argument works in favour of Ole and it should definitely be considered as a factor by the club if he does well between now and May.

    If he does well, we have a manager who has already been in the job for 6 months, who has known the club a whole lot longer, who the fans like, who wants to play football the right way, who wont take most of the summer and half our spending budget to pry away from his current job.

    None of these things apply by default to someone like Pochettino. What worries me more at the moment is the way Pochettino is talked about as some kind of guaranteed solution. The guy is a good manager, but he's actually not achieved anything as yet that would count as a success at United, so it's actualy impossible for anyone to say he will work out if he took the job...and he is the best suited candidate, so anyone else this just applies to even more.

    We got Van Gaal under circumstances where people just decided he was guaranteed to work out, which led to him being able to do extremely daft and in some cases damaging things for over a year before a lot of people would accept he was even doing anything wrong. We got Jose and the exact opposite happened and people were looking to snipe at him over every tiny detail, or would just make stuff up to criticise him. This doesn't actually help.

    My preference would be for Ole to do well and get the job, as it would at least be trying something different. No one thinks he's an unquestionable genius and no one has an agenda against him either, so it's a healthy situation. He would have to do well enough to earn the chance though. I think there are genuine criticisms of the Glazers but I do also think we invest enough in the team to expect some degree of success. The issue is how we seem to go about our business.
  37. Jan 11, 2019

    Devil may care Full Member

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    Fergie was still winning leagues during that time though so it made it harder for that movement to get a grip, even though it was about more than just the trophies at heart. Ole cannot get this team competing with Liverpool and City without major investment and if we don't see that in the summer, I would hope fans would step up as Ole wont be a divisive figure that the board can hide behind to a degree.
  38. Jan 11, 2019

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    There is a difference between more scrutiny and being constantly negative. I am sure we will get the next one right after Jose, and I don't think it will be Ole and I don't think he is the best candidate even if he achieves seasons objectives.
  39. Jan 11, 2019

    Tarrou Full Member

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    Well if you don't consider them taking $1bn out of us as evidence of their true motivations, take a look at Tampa Bay and what their fans say about them. I mean, there's enough there to raise this as a valid question, in the context of them being able to save $300m on a single decision.

    Just pointing to our spending in last 5 years is just taking one reference point in an extremely complex equation. That is the sort of money it costs to run a massive club, to keep it at the top or get it back to the top. Despite that, we have failed.
  40. Jan 11, 2019

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

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    I don’t think there is anything wrong with Utd employing OGS if he proves himself in the next 5 months. Poch is relatively unproven in any case, as you point out - appointing him could cost an absolute fortune.

    The days of managers having lots of player contacts are long gone (as this level), and that’s why someone like OGS could potentially thrive under a DOF.

    Not having a dig at Poch, but what’s he won as a manager? What did he win as a player - he wasn’t a great player by all accounts. What influence has he had on transfers at spurs (very little as far as I can see). He’s done well, but there are no guarantees he would work - so if by the end of the season we have a manager who is doing well, why not keep him? Any new manager has (not scientifically prove ) a 50/50 at best chance of success, so keep OGS is he is successful.