Synth Draft: SF - Invictus vs Gio

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Physiocrat, Oct 11, 2017.

?

With players at their career peak, who would win?

Poll closed Oct 12, 2017.
  1. Team Invictus

    74.3%
  2. Team Gio

    25.7%
  1. Oct 11, 2017
    #1

    Physiocrat Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,017
    Invictus
    [​IMG]

    Gio
    [​IMG]

    Invictus

    Formation: Balanced 4231

    One of the highlights of the team is the brilliance of the wing duo. El Beatle Best was the most explosive and best winger of all time with Garrincha. And on the other side is the second best winger in the pool, Džajić - who's probably a Top 5 all-time winger in his own right:
    Backing them is the balanced duo of McGrain (arguably the greatest rightback in British football and a consummate defenders' defender), and the latest addition to the team: someone who's regarded as one of the absolute best defenders of all time, the Total Defender given his legendary performances both out wide and as a sweeper, and arguably the best fullback in the pool, Krol:


    With this quartet, we believe we have the perfect cast to cause real problems for the opposition through the wider areas.

    Orchestrating play through the middle is Hagi - one of the all-time great #10's who captured the imagination in 1994 with several mesmerizing performances.

    Spearheading the attack is probably the best Number 9 you could imagine, Van Basten. He offers the perfect focal point in attack against an oftentimes deep and structured defense. The Flying Dutchman knows all about looking after himself against tough Serie A defenders given his record of 3 Ballon D'Or titles while playing in the league, and is the perfect link up and hold up attacker while providing an imposing target for Džajić and Best's deliveries.


    Patrolling the center of the park is the monstrous box-to-box tandem of Matthäus and Tigana - two complete midfielders capable of magic on the ball whilst also providing drive, energy and defensive fortitude in midfield. In our opinion Matthäus is the best central midfielder of all time, and Tigana one of the greatest defensive box-to-box players along with the likes of Keane.

    Behind them is the complementary Blanc + Desailly-esque pairing of Le Président Blanc himself - an excellent ballplayer and natural orchestrator from deep, and Vierchowod - one of the most ruthless stoppers of all time and the epitome of Italian defensive spirit.


    Why we should win:

    1. Overload in wider areas: this is one area in particular where we can envision Gio's team struggling a bit given the quality of the opposition. Brehme and Amoros were accomplished wingbacks - but never quite faced a combination that was remotely as potent as Best + McGrain + Krol + Džajić. Even peak Facchetti found it hard to come to terms with Jarizinho + Alberto, and we're featuring comparable tandems on both flanks. This will create issues not just in defense, but limit Brehme and Amoros' attacking forays, in our opinion.

    2. This point is related to the above: if either Brehme or Amoros are caught further up the pitch while attacking, and a counterattack is initiated via Best (as an example), he'll be mostly against Schwarzenbeck (who was more of a stopper centerback and didn't quite have the ideal skillset to mark the GOAT winger when he has space to operate in). A similar situation will arise on the opposite flank with Džajić vs Pereira. In our estimation, this is why Krol was targeted twice in the previous reinforcement, since the position called for someone who was adept at marking wingers - like him, or Bergomi, or Thuram (ineligible).

    3. More threatening attack: Gio has the best attacker on the pitch, but in our opinion - we have the 2nd, 3rd, 4th best attackers on the pitch - and Hagi was comparable to Stoichkov at his peak given their performances in '94. Additionally, our attack is more diverse and built to perfection for a 4231 with the best possible wide attackers, the prototypical 9 on the ground and in the air, and a world class operator in the attacking midfield position.

    4. Bit of a segue from the previous point: since both teams are quite strong, it could come down to favorable individual matchups - particularly against the opposition's talisman. In our opinion, Vierchowod and Matthäus were the greatest impediments to Maradona through his career apart from Gentile, and that gives us a sound argument against Maradona operating at his best (which is imperative for Gio's attack to function well).
    5. Comparable defensive fortitude: at first glance, you might get sucked in by the appeal of the 5 man defense the opposition sports - it's robust and well organized. But in our opinion, we have have a defense to be reckoned with, too - with players who performed at the highest level - winning the World Cup, the EUROs and European Cups as the leaders and key members of the defensive line - being cast in complementary roles when you consider their career peaks.


    And to top it all off, there's a final impediment in the shape of Schmeichel - the best keeper in the pool and all time great.

    Gio

    TACTICS: 3-5-2

    Diego Maradona is the fulcrum of the team. He is joined in a glittering attack by the explosive Hristo Stoichkov and the quintessential no9 and penalty box reference point Gary Lineker. Much like Argentina '86, we go 3-5-2 with a focus on hard work, discipline and balance. It's a top class midfield with Johan Neeskens and Paulo Roberto Falcao coming together as a complete and all-conquering partnership. On the flanks the outstanding playmaking class of Andreas Brehme on the left complements the athletic and creative Manuel Amoros on the right. Franco Baresi leads the defence, organising and complementing the physicality of Hans-Georg Schwarzenbeck and Luis Pereira in front of him.

    WHY WE WILL WIN:
    • Dominating platform for Maradona to perform. A Neeskens/Falcao partnership should gain control of the midfield with Maradona given the service he needs to do what he does best. Despite being a bit of a fanboy myself, it's unlikely that Hagi will influence a game of this magnitude given the quality around him. Whether Matthaus is assigned to track Maradona or not, the triple threat in this midfield means he and Tigana could be overloaded. Either way, Maradona, Neeskens and Falcao will probably get on top.
    • The best defender on the park Franco Baresi has the ability to shut up shop better than anyone. No defender knows Van Basten's game as well as he does. Indeed he twice faced peak Van Basten for Italy in 1988 and 1990, securing a clean sheet on both occasions against the then European Champions. To his left, the World Cup winning West German axis of Brehme and Schwarzenbeck is nearly as good as it gets in closing down Best. On his right, the classy Luis Pereira covered onto the right flank frequently for Brazil in 1974, is supported by a top notch wing-back in Amoros. Like Baresi, Parreira has previous in getting the better out of his opposite number Dzajic, shutting him out in a top defensive performance in 1974 against the talented Yugoslavs.
    • The finest wing-backs in the draft in Andreas Brehme and Manuel Amoros provide plenty of defensive support and enterprising play going forward. Brehme was a tour de force in the very same role for West Germany in 1990, while no right-back has ever finished as high in the Ballon D'Or as Amoros did in 1986.
    • As well as the probing and penetration of Maradona, the explosive Stoichkov will stretch and test the opposition defence and may find particular joy in the channel between McGrain and Blanc. On hand to deliver the knockout blow is Lineker who is as ruthless as they come: he has the highest chance conversation rate of any player at the World Cup since 1966. With the scope of Stoichkov and Maradona to roam and terrorise, any space vacated by Krol pushing forward could well be exploited by this front three.
  2. Oct 11, 2017
    #2

    Physiocrat Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,017
  3. Oct 11, 2017
    #3

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    A few words on the reinforcements...out goes Marinho Chagas and in comes one of the absolute best defenders in football.

    RUUD KROL

    [​IMG]

    Ballon d'Or – third place: 1979
    FIFA World Cup All-Star Team (2): 1974, 1978
    UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 1976
    FIFA XI: 1979
    Guerin d'Oro (Serie A Footballer of the Year): 1981

    Totaalvoetbal connoisseur Ruud Krol was the defensive cornerstone of the 1970s Ajax/Dutch vintage and he was truly a complete presence at his back with his tactical nous and defensive ability - in addition to being a classy operator on the ball. Krol is tailor made for the flex LB/LCB role and he excelled both as a FB and as CB - winning 3 European cups and making the WC Final as a FB; and as a CB leading Netherlands to the WC Final being their best player, establishing himself in the elite batch of CBs who finished in the podium of the Ballon d'Or and of course winning the Guerin d'Oro (POTY) in an absurdly stingy Serie A.

    He was only 20 when he was called up to the national team squad for the first time and stayed there for the next fourteen years. With Ajax, he was part of some of the best clubteams European football has ever seen. Three straight European Cups were won in the early seventies and many of his colleagues in Ajax, for instance Johann Cruyff, were also key-players for Holland.

    Krol vs Argentina in the 1974 World Cup - highlighting some key facets of his game:



    Krol was a versatile defender who could play anywhere that was required. He was a great reader of the game which also made him successful as a sweeper in the 1978 World Cup where he provided 2 assists. Four years earlier he had been equally successful at left-back. The Dutch team of 1974 is always mentioned when people talk about great teams that never won the World Cup. Krol played in every minute in all seven games and also scored a goal, a cracking shot against Argentina in the 4-0 second phase win.

    Krol was made captain by coach Ernst Happel for the 1978 World Cup and Holland advanced through the rounds much thanks to Krol’s presence. The team suffered from the lack of Cruyff in a creative midfield role, but neither Italy or West Germany could prevent Holland from reaching a second World Cup final in a row. Holland and Krol, once again an ever-present, could not stop Argentina and Kempes in extra-time as the hosts ran out 3-1 winners.
  4. Oct 11, 2017
    #4

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    And cult figure Krankl paves the way for another illustrious Dutchman.

    MARCO VAN BASTEN

    [​IMG]

    Eredivisie Top Scorer: 1983–84, 1984–85, 1985–86, 1986–87
    European Silver Boot: 1983–84
    Dutch Footballer of the Year: 1984–85
    European Golden Boot: 1985–86
    World Golden Boot: 1985–86
    Bravo Award: 1987
    Onze d'Argent: 1987, 1992
    Onze d'Or: 1988, 1989
    IFFHS World’s Best Player: 1988, 1989
    World Soccer Player of the Year: 1988, 1992
    UEFA Euro 1988: Top Scorer and Best Player with 5 goals
    UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament: 1988, 1992
    Ballon d'Or: 1988, 1989, 1992
    UEFA Best Player of the Year: 1989, 1990, 1992
    Serie A Golden Boot: 1989–90, 1991–92
    European Cup Top Scorer: 1988–89
    FIFA World Player of the Year: 1992
    FIFA 100: 2004
    UEFA Golden Jubilee Poll: #4
    Italian Football Hall of Fame: 2012
    UEFA Euro All-time XI (published 2016)

    At once one of the most glorious footballers of the last half-century and one of the sport’s great what-if stories. In purely statistical terms, Van Basten’s career was fruitful by anyone’s standards.

    He scored 301 goals and won two European Cups, 14 domestic trophies and three Ballon d’Ors. But these numbers are rendered doubly impressive due to how tragically truncated his time as a footballer was – he played his last game at the age of 28.

    In the spirit of the Dutch footballing culture that he sprung from, Van Basten was staggeringly multi-talented, perhaps the most complete striker in history. Unlike many of his Dutch contemporaries, however, his position was very much unambiguous – he was an out-an-out centre-forward, a pure goalscorer. The ways by which he fulfilled his remit were many and varied.



    Equally comfortable off either foot, Van Basten could hit fizzing raspers and deft curlers, long-rangers and one-on-one finishes, free-kicks, penalties and headers. He did it with ludicrous frequency, averaging just under a goal a game over his first six seasons at Ajax, at a time when such a ratio was unheard of. Then he relaxed into a rather more leisurely two-in-three pattern for a six-season stint at Milan that comprised the second half of his career.

    While the greatness of his two club sides was a rarity, at international level he was part of something unheard of: a triumphant Holland team. Indeed, he wasn’t so much part of it as the reason for it: his fabled volley brought home the 1988 European Championship trophy, which is still the Netherlands' – one of the world’s most prolifically talented football nations – only prize.

    There’s no debate regarding the highlight of his career. That magisterial swing of his right boot in Munich to send the ball arcing perfectly over Rinat Dasayev, and the silverware sailing towards the Netherlands. A rare goal that takes away your breath the first time, and yet improves on each repeat viewing.
  5. Oct 11, 2017
    #5

    idmanager Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,234
    Not sure who the bigger cheat is. The guy who gets Maradona as his first pick or the guy who gets to build that front 3 from reinforcements.
  6. Oct 11, 2017
    #6

    harms Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    11,639
    Location:
    Moscow
    Can't see Gio's formation pic for some reason
  7. Oct 11, 2017
    #7

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    15,939
    Great game this.

    Gio has been one of the clear favorites from the off, but that Invictus side and his front 6 is completely ridiculous. :eek:
  8. Oct 11, 2017
    #8

    Raees Sporty Guy

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    23,616
    Location:
    Marcel DesBailly
    Very tough to separate these sides.
  9. Oct 11, 2017
    #9

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    15,939
    yeah both has done pretty well. I like also @Gio reinforcements and that midfield combo of Neeskens/Falcao.

    Pretty much all square across the park in terms of quality. I can see it being a 50-50 match and the most clinical team would clinch it with 1 goal difference.

    Think Invictus looks really heavy up top and Van Basten as focal point of the attack has a bit of an advantage compared to Lineker.

    What's the plan of neutralizing the Dutch @Gio ? Would Baresi step up for this and try to neutralize him like he did to Romario or he'll be facing Schwartzenbeck/Pereira most of the time?
  10. Oct 11, 2017
    #10

    Moby Dick

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    30,729
    Location:
    Nicki Minaj's Secret Bedroom
    I have to play against one of these in the final. :annoyed:

    Good thing I don't have to vote in this.
  11. Oct 11, 2017
    #11

    Physiocrat Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,017
    Can you see it now? I can see it now problem although I can't see the Krol '74 vid
  12. Oct 11, 2017
    #12

    idmanager Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,234
    My first thoughts as well. Half expected Hagi to be benched with Matthaus having much more freedom and Dinu only concentrating on Maradona and nothing else..
  13. Oct 11, 2017
    #13

    harms Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    11,639
    Location:
    Moscow
    With VPN I can, not sure what was the original problem
  14. Oct 11, 2017
    #14

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,108
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    All the best @Invictus and @Theon. A couple of early points from the OP to pick up on:

    1. I don't think that's a particularly cogent argument regarding the quality of the 22 players. Nobody on the park has been part of such a GOAT-fest - with or against - so it's all relative. The beauty of the 3-5-2 is that it tilts to defend whichever flank the ball is on and the wide overloads rarely if ever happen. The important thing with a 3-5-2 IMO is that you have players in the key roles who are comfortable in operating in the system. So Brehme with his extensive international career with West Germany doing just this and Amoros who also has international experience of this system are well versed in what is required. In fact it's hard to identify anyone less likely to get 'caught out up the park' than Brehme because he knows this system inside-out at the very top level.

    2. On Schwarzenbeck, he often played inbetween two expansive defenders in Breitner to his left and Beckenbauer to his right - both of them loved to push into midfield. And as a result he was left to man the defence, but he did it remarkably well, winning Euro '72 and the 1974 World Cup. Not that such a situation would be likely to arise given the intelligence of the players around him in Baresi, Brehme and Falcao.
  15. Oct 11, 2017
    #15

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    15,939
    Considering Matthaus history man marking Maradona in the 86 WC and then again squaring off 4 years later and doing pretty well I'd say it's a pretty good fit as he's Gio's main weapon. With Tigana also there it's probably the best midfield to keep tabs on Maradona in the draft.

    I rate Dinu but him against Maradona is a clear mismatch.
  16. Oct 11, 2017
    #16

    harms Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    11,639
    Location:
    Moscow
    Don't know who to vote for at the moment. Ridiculous teams
  17. Oct 11, 2017
    #17

    idmanager Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,234
    Agreed, Dinu is no Makelele but then Falcao+Neesekens+Maradona might be too overwhelming if Matthaus is to man mark Maradona.
    Dinu with support from Tigana and Matthaus in a counter attacking system would have been my strategy, but I am a two time first round exit, so I wouldn't trust me :lol:

    I don't dislike Hagi here, just feel he is not needed with that front 3 capable of terrorizing Gio's defence by themselves and an extra man helping out against Maradona would be nicer than one helping out in attack.
  18. Oct 11, 2017
    #18

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    To be honest, I don't trust Dinu when it comes to man-marking a specific player. His overall skillset was comparable to someone like Popescu, IMO - good at organizing things in space and a bit of zonal marking, but he didn't quite have the athleticism to stop an expert dribbler. Good thing we have primarily, Vierchowod and secondarily, Matthäus - who have a good track record against Maradona. And the inclusion of Hagi translates to more goalscoring opportunities for the likes of Van Basten, Džajić and Best - who oddly enough, didn't get an individual profile in the previous game. :drool:

    GEORGE BEST





    Ballon D'Or: 1968
    Ballon D'Or 3rd: 1971
    FIFA Grand Jury Player of the Century: 5th (tied with Johan Cruyff)
    World Soccer Greatest Footballers: 8th (highest ranked winger)
    PFA Team of the Century
    1968 FWA Footballer Of The Year
    European Hall of Fame
    UEFA Jubilee Award (Northern Ireland)
    Golden Foot
    England League Team of the Century
    First Division highest scorer: 1968
    European Cup winner: 1968
    First Division winner: 1965, 1967

    In the entire history of football, George Best stands alone as the greatest winger to combine breath-taking creativity with a massive volume of goals. The complete package out wide - no one can touch his status in the game from that stand-point. Some increased their goal output, but became more constricted players with diminished overall games. Others didn't score as much, and polished other areas of their overall skillset. No one combined the two like O Quinto Beatle. Pace to burn, touch, outrageous skill, balance, innovation, two-footedness, the ability to glide by defenders and bypass his marker - Best could do it all - on top of scoring a multitude of goals (32 in a season at this peak). Another thing that sets him apart in a historical context is the relative willingness to track back in support of his fullback, and work for the team - something that a lot of other flash stars often refused to do.
  19. Oct 11, 2017
    #19

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    15,939
    Hagi will occupy one of Falcao/Neeskens himself, so he also has to be minded.

    Hagi is probably in the zone here as he has the stage set up for him and he was a special player indeed. Not only but he'd be Invictus main playmaker in this game, but he can spread the ball around on the flanks to maximize Invictus gameplan as his main weapon is wide and supplying van Basten in the box.

    Without him IMO Invictus would lack a conductor in his midfield, considering Matthaus is occupied with Maradona and even without that responsibility I'd take Hagi before Matthaus being the main creator in the side.
  20. Oct 11, 2017
    #20

    Moby Dick

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    30,729
    Location:
    Nicki Minaj's Secret Bedroom
    idmanager's tactics makes sense but it needs a better DM than Dinu there, else just leave it to Lothar to handle Maradona.
  21. Oct 11, 2017
    #21

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,108
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Yeah. It's hard to imagine that midfield not getting overloaded. Matthaus and Tigana will have their hands full keeping tabs with Falcao and Neeskens, never mind Maradona.
  22. Oct 11, 2017
    #22

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    To be fair, You could say the same for the opposition.

    Hagi should be a handful for the midfield base (particularly since I don't quite rate Falcão's defensive nous and mobility on the same level as Tigana and Matthäus):



    And then there's always the option of either Matthäus or Tigana advancing forward themselves.

    For reference, Tigana's assist in the EURO '84 final:



    Evidence of his incredible resilience with an assist in the last minute of extra time in the semis vs Portugal:


    Link.

    Also, you have Van Basten, Džajić and Best converging on the central defensive trio with the capable yet measured support of McGrain and Krol - Ruud for one was renowned for his precise deliveries in the box - a very potent weapon with Van Basten in the mix:

  23. Oct 11, 2017
    #23

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,108
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    That would depend on the shape of Invictus' attack. If Baresi needs to step up to Van Basten, he will, and he has done that before against a world-class no9 in Romario in 1994. And if Van Basten can be picked up by Schwarzenbeck or Luis Pereira, then Baresi will offer cover. Baresi played in such a zonal system for Milan and I'm certainly not one for the rigid man-marking systems of days gone by. Importantly Baresi has previous in twice neutralising peak Van Basten.
  24. Oct 11, 2017
    #24

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,108
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Hagi's no mug, but he's clearly the weakest of the six players in the midfield. Especially when you compare him against his opposite number and the greatest of all.

    As for Falcao, he was a brilliantly all-rounded midfielder with no real chinks and exceptional attacking ability. He certainly offers more commanding the shape of the game and going forward than Tigana and presents another threat for your midfield to deal with.

  25. Oct 11, 2017
    #25

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,108
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Player Profiles of the Slightly Lesser Known Players:

    Jurgen Croy
    Rangy and well-built goalkeeper who gained high plaudits for his performances for East Germany throughout the 1970s. Despite being the wrong side of the wall to get the full recognition he probably deserved, was nevertheless regarded on par with Maier and Zoff from the same era.

    Hans-Georg Schwarzenbeck
    Defensive rock behind the all-conquering Bayern Munich and West German teams of the 1970s. Physical and imposing.

    Luis Pereira
    Dynamic and powerful central defender who stands amongst comfortably amongst Brazil's greatest ever. Unfortunate that his career fell inbetween the 1970 and 1982 vintages, otherwise his legacy would be longer-standing.

    Manuel Amoros
    Modern wing-back comfortable on both sides. Arguably the foremost right-back of the 1980s, gaining a spread of awards normally the reserve of attackers: Young Player of the Tournament at the 1982 World Cup, 4th in the Ballon D'Or in 1986 - the highest ever by a right-back, and 2nd place behind Maradona in the 1986 Onze Mondial magazine's World / European Based Player of the Year.

    Gary Lineker
    Classic number 9. Top class finisher with big-game bollocks. Scored 10 in 2 World Cups with the majority reserved for the business end of the tournament. In 1986 that comprised a hat-trick against Poland as England faced the exit, a double against Paraguay in the last 16, one against Maradona's Argentina (and agonisingly close to an equaliser). Same shit in 1990. After a group stage goal against Ireland, England were 2-1 down with 7 minutes on the clock against Cameroon in the quarter final. Two goals later and they squeeze through to a date with destiny against West Germany. Same shit again - apart from the fresh one he deposited on the park - as England trailed with 10 minutes to go, before a typically ruthless Lineker finish took the game to extra time and penalties. Has the highest chance conversion rate (40%) of any player at the World Cup since '66.
  26. Oct 11, 2017
    #26

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    Yes, but he will still have to be accounted for and will create space for others, and if we compare what's in front of him - Van Basten dwarfs Linekar in terms of ability, and you could argue that the latter is the weakest player on the pitch. And then there's the twin menace of Best and Dragan Džajić:


    Regarding the central midfield areas, I reckon the defensive wherewithal of the our tandem is on a higher level. So while Maradona is unarguably greater than Hagi, we have a better plan in place to counter the overall midfield threat. Can envision it being a stalemate of sorts from an overall standpoint.
  27. Oct 11, 2017
    #27

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    Anyway, more on Hagi:

    [​IMG]

    World Soccer Greatest Players of the 20th century: #25
    1994 Ballon D'Or: 4th
    1989 Ballon D'Or: 8th
    1994 FIFA World Player of the Year: 4th
    Romanian League: Top Scorer 1985, 1986
    European Cup: Top Scorer 1987–88
    Romanian Footballer of the Year: 1985, 1987, 1993, 1994, 1997, 1999, 2000
    FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1994
    FIFA XI: 1998
    UEFA Jubilee AwardsGreatest Romanian Footballer of the last 50 Years: 2003
    FIFA 100: 2004



    https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-gheorghe-hagi-a-footballing-icon
  28. Oct 11, 2017
    #28

    2mufc0 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,929
    Very close game, Baresi stepping up and creating a diamond with Neeskens, Falcao and Diego tips it for me. Also Gio's defense as a unit is better imo and has two good full backs to help against Best/Dzajic.
  29. Oct 11, 2017
    #29

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    DANNY MCGRAIN

    [​IMG]

    The right fullback position called for someone who could overlap with precise timing, but primarily, evidence the nous and grit to maintain a steady ship. McGrain is one of the best players in this pool from the perspective as a robust and uncompromising defender who can track people all day long, and is arguably the greatest rightback of all time from Britain.



    via @Moby

    Scottish League Championship (7): 1972–73, 1973–74, 1976–77, 1978–79, 1980–81, 1981–82, 1985–86
    Scottish Cup (5): 1973–74, 1974–75, 1976–77, 1979–80, 1984–85
    Scottish League Cup (2): 1974, 1983

    A wonderful read from The Celtic Wiki:
  30. Oct 11, 2017
    #30

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,108
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Obviously Van Basten outstrips Lineker in terms of their overall game. No arguments there, but I certainly don't need another player to get involved in the build-up. Lineker is custom designed for this team with his penalty-box ruthlessness - the five man midfield and Stoichkov can provide the threat from around the edge of the box and beyond. And his big game record is second to none. Horses for courses really.

    There's not a lot between a Tigana/Matthaus partnership and a Falcao/Neeskens partnership. Obviously the stark difference is one of them has to deal with Maradona and the other has to keep tabs on Hagi. And if you're focused on getting to grips with Maradona, then you are probably letting one of Neeskens or Falcao relatively free to make the difference.
  31. Oct 11, 2017
    #31

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    Fair enough, but I was pretty certain Linekar was going to be upgraded to someone like say Elkjær given the latter's ability to work the channels and dislodge defenders and overall scrappiness for lack of a better term. As it stands, the attack looks quite anemic will a slightly below par spearhead against a well structured defense in terms of working the central defenders.

    Reckon both him and Stoichkov will find it hard to crack open the central defensive core with the occasional assistance of McGrain and Krol - which offers the perfect blend of physicality and overall defensive nous and composure:

    Blanc + Desailly Vierchowod

    [​IMG]

    The central defensive core takes inspiration from one of the greatest tandems in football history:


    * Someone please tell me how to fix Pagliuca in the thumbnail preview...

    Laurent Blanc reprises his own role as someone who gave the backline a calming effect. And Vierchowod is the ideal partner for him considering his skillset as an unrelenting tackler and athletically supreme man-marker.


    Not to mention Krol was adept at moving inwards to make the central portions even firmer in transitions if need be.
  32. Oct 11, 2017
    #32

    idmanager Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,234
    Want to vote just to see the scoreline but dunno who to vote for.

    This is the only thing that makes me not vote for Invictus till now.
  33. Oct 11, 2017
    #33

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    Also, even though Matthäus is paying a great deal of attention to Maradona, he will still have plenty of moments to shine on the ball given the attack in front of him to provide potential routes to goal as a passing option. He's perfectly capable to making substantial contributions even from the deep.

    e.g. Dislodging the ball and passing it to more advanced team-mates in threatening positions:

    [​IMG]

    Or making a decisive pass between the lines when Van Basten is engaging the central defender:

    [​IMG]

    Or bringing the wide attackers into the game:

    [​IMG]

    The attack in front of him provides a host of brilliant options for Lothar to showcase his overall play on the ball.
  34. Oct 11, 2017
    #34

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,108
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Anemic? Stoickhov and Maradona are anemic? :lol:

    I don't really buy it. Lineker is statistically the most ruthless striker in World Cup (post-62) history. When you have a dominant midfield with Falcao and Neeskens running the show, Maradona and Stoickhov probing and penetrating, a no9 to put it in the onion bag is all you need. Someone as good as Romario would be lovely, but I still back Lineker to put away anything that comes his way.

    Let's not over-sell the quality of your defence. McGrain is the weakest full-back on the park, who was a very solid defender but offered very little going forward. Krol is obviously top tier, but both Vierchowod and Blanc are a notch below. Vierchowod is defensively very robust, but will have his hands full here, with Maradona breaking past midfield, Stoickhov bursting through the channels, as well as hoping Lineker doesn't get any space.
  35. Oct 11, 2017
    #35

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    Yes, relative to Van Basten + Džajić + Best + Hagi, the unit is definitely anemic, overall.
    I don't quite agree with this. McGrain is bloody brilliant for what is wanted here - a hardworking fullback behind Best, and someone who you yourself rated as the best defender (even better than Bossis - who's compared to Amoros) in the previous round.
    That's precisely what we need - an effective no frills defender to fortify things at the back since Best will do most of the attacking on the right flank. One could argue that a blistering wingback would be a monumental waste behind Best.

    Wrt. Vierchowod and Blanc being a notch below, I'd argue that they're both better than the duo of Schwarzenbeck and Pereira - and more importantly, Vierchowod and Blanc are in there absolute best roles in a back 4 - something that can't be said of Schwarzenbeck and Pereira in terms of experience in those exact roles in their peaks, especially in terms of peeling wide à la Bergomi, Thuram, Maldini - which is what was needed here to adequately counter the thread of Džajić and Best.

    Also, in terms of the overall makeup of the defense, goalkeepers are often conveniently left out, but we sport the absolute best in the pool, and one of the best of all time:



    Det Gyldne Bur (Danish Goalkeeper of the Year): 1987, 1988, 1990, 1992
    Danish Football Player of the Year: 1990, 1993, 1999
    UEFA Euro 1992 Team of the Tournament
    UEFA Goalkeeper of the Year: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
    IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper: 1992, 1993
    Premier League PFA Team of the Year: 1992–93
    Premier League Player of the Season: 1995–96
    UEFA Club Goalkeeper of the Year: 1997–98
    UEFA Champions League 10 Seasons Dream Team (1992 to 2002): 2002
    English Football Hall of Fame: 2003
    PFA England League Team of the Century (1907 to 2007): 2007
    Premier League 10 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2001–02):Overseas and overall Team of the Decade
    Save of the Decade (vs. Newcastle, 21 December 1997)
    Premier League 20 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2011–12):
    Fantasy Teams of the 20 Seasons public and panel choice
    FIFA 100
    Danish Football Hall of Fame
    World Soccer: The 100 Greatest Footballers of All Time
    Football League 100 Legends

    Peter's presence gives us a major advantage relative to Croy.
  36. Oct 11, 2017
    #36

    idmanager Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,234
    Just voted for Invictus as I felt apart from the midfield balance to a slight extent, I think he has a better side overall.
  37. Oct 11, 2017
    #37

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    I am your Nakama!
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
    Also, just to address this part...
    In terms of making the difference, we think there are clearly bigger threats on the park than Neeskens and Falcão in terms of both attacking prowess and orientation on the field. They were both really good and important enablers in a team but surely fairly low down in this company when it comes to actually creating and scoring goals and impacting the game from central midfield when the opposition defense regains its shape.

    In fact of the midfielders I think it's clearly Matthäus who carries the biggest threat in that sense - as reflected by his career record. Yes, he's marking Maradona, but that's off the ball, and on it - he can be a deadly precise and up-tempo passer without jeopardizing the overall defensive shape.



    Overall, I think we have three of the four most likely match winners in our side - Van Basten, Džajić and George Best (with the other obviously being Maradona). Those four players are all in contention as being the best of all time in their position and routinely scored/assisted to make the difference and change the course of a game:
    I think more likely than Falcão making the difference is Džajić or Best getting behind your wingbacks when they push forward, since you mentioned a midfield 5 type of structure in another post.

    Both have the pace, agility and dribbling to pose real problems running directly at the backline and given your reliance on the wingbacks providing width in attack, they are well placed to make the difference here - either by scoring themselves or alternatively crossing to the 6 ft 2 Marco Van Basten lurking in the penalty area (he ranks as one of the greatest and most acrobatic headers of all time with the likes of Sándor Kocsis and Cristiano Ronaldo).

    [​IMG]
  38. Oct 11, 2017
    #38

    Ecstatic Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    10,278
    Location:
    Paradise
    Supports:
    PsG
    Excellent teams and discussions.

    All the best
  39. Oct 11, 2017
    #39

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,108
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    His career record is irrelevant given he's not liberated to get forward here. Every ounce of his energy will be devoted to following Maradona. Now if you'd set your midfield in a three with a more defensive minded sitter behind Matthaus, then it would be relevant.

    It has to be said though that in this company his deep playmaking is unremarkable. The common view of Matthaus around 89/90 was that this was a fantastic box-to-box dynamo who could mark and get on the end of things, but he wasn't the heir to Beckenbauer, Netzer or Schuster. I've got an article in a World Soccer around this time making these points and building a case that West Germany were suffering as a result. It was never an issue in Italia '90 because Brehme was probably the principal playmaker and transition-maker from deep, with Littbarski in particular offering creative play in midfield.

    I do think it is a slight concern that there's no natural playmaker in that area of the park. And that really needs Hagi to see a lot of the ball to get things going. Which is a risky tactic given the potential for him to be starved of supply given the trio he is up against.
  40. Oct 11, 2017
    #40

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    14,108
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    The big difference though is we have Franco Baresi anchoring our defence. Schwarzenbeck was twice the player with Beckenbauer behind him, and he has another Kaiser-like presence here to allow him do what he does best. Baresi is some distance ahead of Blanc in the all-time stakes. And in terms of fit, both Schwarzenbeck, who had to cover the same space when Breitner and/or Beckenbauer went forward, and Pereira who covered the very same space against the very same opponent in 1974, have pedigree to do the job here.