Teams that Attack and Press us

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Devilton, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. Mar 8, 2012
    #1

    Devilton Banned

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    Make us look pretty ordinary...

    Barca did it.

    Spurs did it.

    Now Bilboa have done it.

    We lose possession, make careless passes and look suspect at the back.
  2. Mar 8, 2012
    #2

    Liam147 On Probation

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    Not a complete cock, just really young.
    I was thinking of starting a similar thread. Brophs made a point about it and it's very true. Liverpool always do it to us at Klanfield, and we have no response to it. The only reason we (just about) got away with it at WHL was because we had Carrick and Scholes, two of the best ball retainers in the league, and even then we really struggled to keep possession. The worrying thing is, we aren't well-enough equipped to handle teams who get in our faces, particularly on small pitches, and it's only a matter of time before teams pick up on this.

    I'm not the type who'll spend all summer in the transfer forum, but I really believe we need a midfielder who can hold the ball, a Modric type player. We can't be left with just Carrick, and possibly Cleverley for next season.
  3. Mar 8, 2012
    #3

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    We have no bollocks in the centre of the park
  4. Mar 8, 2012
    #4

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

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    I'd like to see us press more as well, we sit back too much nowadays, although the age and composition of midfield could be the reason why.
  5. Mar 8, 2012
    #5

    DomesticTadpole Full Member

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    We used to press teams years ago. Now we just stand off other teams and let them waltz through.
  6. Mar 8, 2012
    #6

    KM I’m afraid I just blue myself

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    To be fair, if you start Giggs and Jones against a quality midfield like theirs, we're gonna be punished. I thought Ando and Carrick did well until that shocker from Rafael.
  7. Mar 8, 2012
    #7

    Devilton Banned

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    We need a Martinez type player in midfield. Someone who can get a good tackle in, but is technically adept and knows how to play a forward pass. We have the strength of a jelly filled donut in the midfield and our flanks are just as bad...the amount of times we're exposed down the sides is embarrassing considering we're supposed to be the team that's known for our wideplay.
  8. Mar 8, 2012
    #8

    Raoul Administrator

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    Bielsa coached sides seem to have a fanatical intensity and workrate about them. Chile were very similar at the WC.
  9. Mar 8, 2012
    #9

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    It's so easy to bully us with this 4-4-2 tactic of ours. Especially when Rooney is only messing things up for the majority of the game. Giggs-Jones, Carrick-Park, Carrick-Scholes. We've been dominated with all three varieties.
  10. Mar 8, 2012
    #10

    Theon Full Member

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    Their pressing was unreal at times, they looked far more motivated than us. Our passing wasn't good enough tonight to deal with their pressing, if we passed it quickly and moved the ball across the pitch then you can deal with it, but when we arent at our best and less confident on the ball closing down results is mistakes. I mean the number of long balls we made tonight demonstrates this.
  11. Mar 8, 2012
    #11

    leviathan Full Member

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    Wouldn't mind if Bielsa succeeded SAF
  12. Mar 8, 2012
    #12

    All 3 United His tinfoil hat protects him from the Glazers.

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    I've been saying it for a good couple of seasons. If a club comes
    to OT and plays the 11 in front of them as opposed to the reputation, we tend to get beat. No investment and a squad full of mediocrity, compared to the other European clubs (not necessarily other PL teams - as they are also declining).
  13. Mar 8, 2012
    #13

    Leg-End Full Member

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    I find myself thinking that an awful lot these days. If we can't have the bollocks lets atleast have the quality to keep sustained possession but against the good sides we can't even do that at a decent rate.
  14. Mar 8, 2012
    #14

    #07 Full Member

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    The truth is that we don't have that many players who are good with the ball at their feet in tight spaces, which is why Cleverley was such a revelation for us. Most of our players, not just 1 or 2, are not anywhere near the level of the Spanish teams' when it comes to close control and keeping the ball moving in tight spaces. The second we're under intense pressure the relative lack of technical ability gets shown up. The majority of our side are superb with space to run into but stick to them like glue and they haven't got the composure or capability to turn out of it.
  15. Mar 8, 2012
    #15

    Roy Full Member

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    For me we have three major problems:
    1) Personalities - not enough big personalities in the team. No leaders out there.
    2) Technical ability - when pressed out players panic and are not assured enough in their technical ability. This is not only a midfield thing. Bilbao today showed exactly what a team full of technical players give you. We're without a doubt a better team man for man, but they played much better as a team.
    3) Huge distances between players. We rarely defend and attack as a team nowadays. The players are very far apart and this just exposes our lack of technical ability.
  16. Mar 8, 2012
    #16

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    We were much more organised when Quieroz was around
  17. Mar 8, 2012
    #17

    Ish84045 raisa84045

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    How old is he? His teams are always fantastic on the eye, with a high work rate. I can see him taking over from Pep, in all honesty.
  18. Mar 8, 2012
    #18

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    It's genius, wonder why it's taken so long for teams to figure it out.

    On the other hand, Bilbao have made Barca look pretty ordinary this season, just like Spurs and Barca have made many good sides look pretty ordinary this year...maybe they're just quite good teams?

    Heh, this just sums up the caf. One game and the world turns upside down. Two games into the season and people are drooling over our 'brand new' Barca style football, then after one game we now need to sign Muniain and Martinez, we're technically incompetent and we should bring in Bielsa...and all of these things will go from being pretty uncommon suggestions a couple of months ago to very obvious solutions in a couple of weeks time.
  19. Mar 8, 2012
    #19

    mariachi-19 Full Member

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    Ferguson needs to take a look at his support staff and seriously consider if a couple of them are the issue. 2 years and we've still got the same fecking problems. It's time for a change and whether that's demoting Phelan or bringing a co-assistant it needs to be done.
  20. Mar 8, 2012
    #20

    Devilton Banned

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    Knowing what to do, and actually doing it are two different things.

    The aura of invincibility that we have has slowly crumbled in the last few years. This year at OT especially teams come in knowing they have a chance if they come at us.

    If you think only Bilbao, Barca or Spurs know this then you haven't been watching us play closely. Or maybe it's them red tints...
  21. Mar 8, 2012
    #21

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

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    Well being fair to the side we've got we've had a lot of injuries this year and we've also phasing in a lot of younger players, it's a transitionary phase but the midfield is an issue that needs to be addressed urgently
  22. Mar 8, 2012
    #22

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    That's a huge exaggeration though. I've seen the game, it was in Bilbao, very heavy pitch (raining), and Barcelona had more than enough chances. They didn't look ordinary, also they didn't lose the game.

    Let's see how Bilbao will do at Nou Camp and then draw wild conclusions.
  23. Mar 8, 2012
    #23

    Claymore Full Member

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    Brilliant topic mate, love it. Was thinking it during the game, when we get pressed we fall apart and lack the technical passing to deal with it. We hate it in fact.

    Bilbao tonight didnt exactly hammer our goal non stop but they refused to let us have the football.
  24. Mar 8, 2012
    #24

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    There's no wild conclusions, Guardiola said it was one of their hardest games for a reason and Bilbao looked just as likely to sneak a win as Barca all game. Let's see how we do at the San Mames, people might be surprised.
  25. Mar 8, 2012
    #25

    That'sHernandez Ominously close to getting banned

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    The thing that gets me is this is a better squad than the one that took us to the Champions League Final last season. What on Earth has changed? I just can't understand it, what is missing? Because I don't think even VDS in there would change the way we have been this season in Europe. Something is awry.
  26. Mar 8, 2012
    #26

    Theon Full Member

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    Yeah I agree, Barca were by far the better footballing team and the keeper made some decent saves. Bilbao got a player sent off I think, and were defending for most of the game, although Munian and Llorente were excellent.
  27. Mar 8, 2012
    #27

    Theon Full Member

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    Hernandez hasn't been as good, we're missing Vidic hugely and Fletch as well.
  28. Mar 8, 2012
    #28

    mariachi-19 Full Member

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    We tried to change our style of football and it fell flat on its arse after the 6-1.

    We should either have totally got behind it, or not at all.
  29. Mar 8, 2012
    #29

    leviathan Full Member

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    No, its not just one game. Bielsa didn't become a good manager only today. He has been a good manager for the last decade or two guiding Argentina to Olympic medals, copa final (if I'm not mistaken) and his record with Chile is excellent. I will grant you that the 2002 WC campain with Argentina was a disaster. But his teams usually play attractive attacking football and by all accounts he's regarded as a very innovative coach. He may not be as fashionable as a Mourinho or Guardiola, but so what. If his record continues to be good by the time Fergie retires, why shouldn't he be considered for the post?
  30. Mar 8, 2012
    #30

    That'sHernandez Ominously close to getting banned

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    Fair points, I suppose. I'm not really sure we're missing Fletch in the midfield desperately though, we need a proper defensive midfielder and this evening it was as though there was literally no one shielding the back four. It really pains me to say it but I just don't think Giggs cuts it for us any more, he's far too wasteful.
  31. Mar 8, 2012
    #31

    mungy I am a terrible poster, please ignore me

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    We call RAWK but there are a fair few reactionary posters on this forum...see above thread for evidence.
  32. Mar 8, 2012
    #32

    That'sHernandez Ominously close to getting banned

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    I've been saying it all season and if you look, Giggs losing possession has probably caused more goals against us this season than DDG making a mistake has. He has had a shocking season so far and I can only pick out maybe three positive things he has done. If he were Anderson, Carrick or Evans, he would be torn apart on here. I apologise for having an opinion on a club legend that isn't positive this season but I'm a realist, like Neville last season, Giggs' age is showing.
  33. Mar 8, 2012
    #33

    Theon Full Member

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    Yeah I agree, he misplaces so many passes. He tends to try so many killer balls though which probably explains it slightly, when they come off often it results in a chance.
  34. Mar 8, 2012
    #34

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

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    Giggs has always given a specific remit to be the aggressive midfielder, that was apparent in his partnership with Carrick last year. Giggs creates with Rooney, Carrick sits.
  35. Mar 8, 2012
    #35

    mariachi-19 Full Member

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    Quite frankly he's been a better winger then midfielder this year.
  36. Mar 8, 2012
    #36

    That'sHernandez Ominously close to getting banned

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    I understand that but ball retention wins matches and he just doesn't seem to be able to do that.
  37. Mar 8, 2012
    #37

    Siorac Full Member

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    Carlo Ancelotti said a few years ago that he likes games against Manchester United as we let the opposition play and attempt to play football ourselves. He specifically compared (and preferred as opponents) us to Liverpool and Chelsea.

    And it's getting worse, we let everybody play with the downside that we sometimes can't get out of our own half.
  38. Mar 8, 2012
    #38

    That'sHernandez Ominously close to getting banned

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    And even then, he cannot handle the game if the pace is too fast. He doesn't have the legs for it, which often leaves Evra exposed and considering Evra has also been a little suspect, it leaves a gaping hole in our left channel of the defence. Evra gets beat all too easily and Giggs just stands there near the edge of the 16 yard line, trying to catch his breath (an exaggeration, obviously).
  39. Mar 8, 2012
    #39

    moses control

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    I have no idea either, yet.
    You could put almost any aspect of the game in there ... , defences win matches, width wins matches, goals win matches.
  40. Mar 8, 2012
    #40

    Cheesy Full Member

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    I actually still feel that he has a lot to offer as a winger. Okay, he has lost a lot of his deadly pace that he used to have, however his delivery is still top class at times. It could come in handy for us.

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