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Tesco faces £4b payout in wage dispute

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by redman5, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Feb 10, 2018
    #1

    redman5 Full Member

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    https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-the-tesco-equal-pay-dispute

    This is an interesting case which has been brewing for quite some time now. It involves Tesco shop workers - who are predominantly female - demanding equal pay with those who work in the warehouse - who are predominantly male. Other companies such as Asda, Morrisons, Sainsburys etc will be watching with interest, & I dare say with a fair amount of trepidation, at what ensues, because I believe they all pretty much follow the same pay structure.

    Me personally, throughout most of my working life I've worked alongside women, & where we've both undertaken a similar job, we've received similar pay for doing that job. That's only fair I think most would agree on that. But the way I see it, shop work & warehouse work are totally different. My son works as a HGV driver for Asda, but prior to that he spent 8 years working on the pick in their warehouse. Even as a young fit lad he found it very tough going & often came home physically shattered. He claims that many females who started on the pick had asked for a transfer to the shop because they were unable to hit their pick targets. So what's the opinions of others on here ? Does working for the same company as an unskilled worker mean everyone should get the same pay ?
  2. Feb 10, 2018
    #2

    Cascarino Full Member

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    Worked in retail as a teen, would much rather work in a warehouse devoid of customers than be out on the shop floor.
  3. Feb 10, 2018
    #3

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Aye. I don't think shop workers neccessarily have to get the same pay as warehouse workers but I don't see why they wouldn't.
  4. Feb 10, 2018
    #4

    Skills Snitch

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    I reckon it's much easier to find a shop floor assistant, than a warehouse op.
  5. Feb 10, 2018
    #4

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    It is.

    They're paid more in the warehouse because it's a shit job in shit conditions. Back when I managed a garden centre we had to offer higher wages because nobody was interested in doing the job.
  6. Feb 10, 2018
    #5

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    Sorry to sound obvious but I worked in both when I was younger and the warehouse stuff was brutal and the hours sucked I found the shop floor stuff like taking a holiday in comparison and I was not shattered
  7. Feb 10, 2018
    #6

    17Larsson Not a malefactor just a lagomorph

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    Two different type of jobs get paid different rates?

    What is the problem with that?
  8. Feb 10, 2018
    #7

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    The argument from the lawyers is that the two jobs provide equal value and should thus receive equal pay. If the warehouse job proves to be more valuable than shop work then it won't matter at all, they'll keep the extra pay as they deserve it.
  9. Feb 10, 2018
    #8

    Ødegaard formerly MrEriksen

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    Who don't they sue so they can get the same money as the CEO of Tesco instead if they are already going to sue the company for paying them different wages for different work?
  10. Feb 10, 2018
    #9

    Cascarino Full Member

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    Maybe it's because as a builder I already do a very physical job, so working in a warehouse would personally be much preferable to working the shop floor. I can't stand dealing with customers, I wouldn't last a day.
  11. Feb 10, 2018
    #10

    redman5 Full Member

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    I imagine if the shop workers won their case then their employer would be well within their rights to utilize all staff - shop & warehouse - as they see fit. So they could, in effect, send a 60 year old cashier from the shop to do the pick in the warehouse, & a 20 year bloke from the warehouse to do her job. That's equality isn't it ?
  12. Feb 10, 2018
    #11

    Skills Snitch

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    It'll just speed up the cutting down of shop floor staff. We're already heading towards more and more online retailing, self checkout systems and that will just speed up.

    In lean processing, a shop floor assistant (and a warehouse op) is already a non value adding cost. So they're already trying very hard to get rid of them asap.
  13. Feb 10, 2018
    #12

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    Surely checkout assistants can sue for the same pay as the CEO using that logic. They both sit on their arses all day.
  14. Feb 10, 2018
    #13

    George Owen LEAVE THE SFW THREAD ALONE!!1!

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    I used to work stacking in a packhouse, and we got paid more than the girls working in the line, but i always thought that was weird because stacking is fun, you work out muscles and don't have to think much, but the girls have to be standing sometimes in uncomfortable positions to your neck and back, sorting out good fruit from bad fruit, etc... I had to do that sometimes to cover for girls and it was hell on earth, terrible gig.

    I imagine its the same in a store. Being in the back stacking boxes and moving shit around is quite easy, while being in the main floor you have to deal with customers and quite different challenges.

    so go on girls!
  15. Feb 10, 2018
    #14

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    No it isn't.
  16. Feb 10, 2018
    #15

    sun_tzu The Art of Bore

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    No... the law is about jobs of equal value
    You can't just change people's job roles without agreement / negotiation
  17. Feb 10, 2018
    #16

    Snowjoe Enjoys hatching eggs for people

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    I don’t know how job of equal value should be the deciding benchmark of pay. What if they provide the same value but one is infinitely more shit than the other to do? You’re gonna have to pay more to get anyone to do it.
  18. Feb 10, 2018
    #17

    Silva Full Member

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    already happens

    happens all the time

    not the logic anyone is using
  19. Feb 10, 2018
    #18

    Oscie Full Member

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    I don't get it in all honesty. Two different jobs, two different pay structures.

    Are caretakers (majority male) going to be paid the same as primary school teachers (majority female) on the basis that they work in the same place so must be paid the same?
  20. Feb 10, 2018
    #19

    T00lsh3d Full Member

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    Do the male checkout staff get the payment as well? Despite being rugged manual-work-able men and not fragile little women?

    The whole think stinks of bullshit. They are different jobs, requiring different skill sets. If you don’t think you get paid enough, feck off and work somewhere else.
  21. Feb 10, 2018
    #20

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    The argument isn't that they work in the same place though. It's that what they do is as valuable to the company. Teachers are more valuable to a school than caretakers, so they get payed more. Whether warehouse workers are more valuable than shop workers is much more debatable.


    The article quoted in the OP says that yes, male checkout workers would also be able to get the increase in pay.
  22. Feb 10, 2018
    #21

    Silva Full Member

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    not the basis for the lawsuit

    yes
    this is very sexist
  23. Feb 10, 2018
    #22

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    Warehouse work is harder than shop work, which is why it pays more. If there is one thing corporations are good at its paying the minimum rate the market will take. If they posted warehouse jobs at the same rate as shop workers the jobs would not be filled.
  24. Feb 10, 2018
    #23

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    I assume that would be factored into warehouse workers' value to the company?
  25. Feb 10, 2018
    #24

    Oscie Full Member

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    But it's not equal value. Checkout staff don't actually need to exist and are gradually being phased out all across the industry with self-checkouts being given more and more space. Right now 40% of unloading produce, storing it and stacking shelves behind the scene at your local Tesco isn't done by automated machines. It's humans. It might change but right now you have one role that's already been largely replaced vs one that's yet to be.

    Different job, different value, different pay.
  26. Feb 10, 2018
    #25

    redman5 Full Member

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    If other people are doing the same job for the same money then the employer is well within their rights to request others do likewise. Unless of course we're talking about disability issues. Negotiation might well come into it, but if the jobs are deemed to be of equal value then an employer would argue that they deserve equal value from their employees. Being too old, being a female, or being overweight, can't really be used in any sort of negotiation when you're given a reasonable work request.
  27. Feb 10, 2018
    #26

    George Owen LEAVE THE SFW THREAD ALONE!!1!

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    harder how? Mentally? Physically?

    Some people will find one job easier, and some people will find the other easier.
  28. Feb 10, 2018
    #27

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Well that's the argument isn't it?

    If you're right and checkout workers are found to provide less value then nothing changes. It's only if your assertion is independently assessed to be wrong that they get their pay increase.
  29. Feb 10, 2018
    #28

    Silva Full Member

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    bakers have the easiest jobs in tesco and get paid the most, the difficulty argument is nonsense
  30. Feb 10, 2018
    #29

    golden_blunder Dreaming of a return to 4-4-2 Staff

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    Different departments should rightly in most cases have a different pay structure because they are different jobs. You can’t compare a till operator to someone working in warehousing.

    However within those departments it should be equal not sex dependent. Ie a girl on the till should receive as much as a boy on the till (starting pay, not taking into account to performance raises), and the same for warehousing
  31. Feb 10, 2018
    #30

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Harder how? Some people will find one job easier, others won't.

    Besides, a lot of people have office jobs that are easier than warehouse work but still get payed more. It isn't just about how physically difficult a job is.
  32. Feb 10, 2018
    #31

    Snowjoe Enjoys hatching eggs for people

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    Maybe, I don’t know, I don’t know how anyone could even begin to work this out in the first place to be honest.
  33. Feb 10, 2018
    #32

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    The market still dictates pay. If Tesco could get away with paying less for warehouse jobs you can bet your ass they would.
  34. Feb 10, 2018
    #33

    Silva Full Member

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    workers have rights, and they're asserting them in this lawsuit
  35. Feb 10, 2018
    #34

    T00lsh3d Full Member

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    No it isn’t, it’s sarcastic. I have no problem with women, and no problem with women doing (typically) ‘male’ jobs. My point is you can’t label the pay difference as discriminatory based on gender....because they are different jobs!
    FWIW, being in a customer-facing role is a skill in itself that not everyone can do, or can do well. Just as hunking shit round a warehouse is a skill that not everyone can do well. It’s up to Tesco entirely how they value the respective skills of the positions
  36. Feb 10, 2018
    #35

    redman5 Full Member

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    A lot of warehouse work involves a fair amount of physical & mental stress. For one, many people have to hit targets, or suffer the consequences if they don't. No such pressure in the shop when you're stacking shelves or working the tills.

    A lot of people working in a warehouse wouldn't want to work in a shop simply because they don't want to. A lot of people working in a shop wouldn't want to work in a warehouse because they'd struggle to do the job.
  37. Feb 10, 2018
    #36

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Yep market does dictate pay. Rules and laws help form the market though. It isn't a free for all.
  38. Feb 10, 2018
    #37

    Silva Full Member

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    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/apr/11/equal-pay-women-birmingham-city-council

    there has already been a landmark case that put the different job argument to rest
  39. Feb 10, 2018
    #38

    T00lsh3d Full Member

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  40. Feb 10, 2018
    #39

    Silva Full Member

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    the council argued the pay structure was based on them being different jobs
  41. Feb 10, 2018
    #40

    VBI Full Member

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    It's not technically a gender related issue, so I don't really see where any sign of "unfairness" can reasonably be presented. If Tesco think they need to pay more to get people in the warehouse than they do in the stores, then they must have a reason. As said, if they felt they could pay the warehouse staff less, they would, as most companies would. Other companies may look at the jobs differently, but they aren't the same job so why would they automatically need the same wage?