The 4th Champions League spot

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by AARRONB06, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. Apr 29, 2012
    #1

    AARRONB06 Full Member

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    I'm a bit confused, with Newcastle in the battle for 4th spot, and Chelsea with a fair chance they will win the Champions League, what will happen if both qualify for the Champions League? Newcastle finish 4th, and Chelsea beat Bayern? Will Newcastle miss out, or will we have 5 teams in it, like when Everton and Liverpool got in that way.

    Sorry if there already is a thread, didn't come across it.

    Cheers.
  2. Apr 29, 2012
    #2

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Newcastle miss out afaik.

    Think it happened to everton when pool last won it
  3. Apr 29, 2012
    #3

    stubie Full Member

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    Everton lost to Villarreal in the CL 3rd round qualifiers
  4. Apr 29, 2012
    #4

    rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks

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    It didn't happen to Everton. But yes, the rules say that 4th Premier League place misses out to the Champions League winner.

    Possibly the FA will say they would rather put forward Newcastle than Chelsea, which is what happened last time, but the rules are pretty clear now that 4th place misses out.
  5. Apr 29, 2012
    #5

    kafta Perpetual Under 11's Team Player

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    No actually when pool won it, they both qualified, but everton lost their qualifier. However since then, the rules have changes and now if the team to win it is not in the top 4, he replaces whoever is in 4th.
  6. Apr 29, 2012
    #6

    AARRONB06 Full Member

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    Ahh cheers lads! So Newcastle still won't know up until the final if they are in it or not, so that still means they will be fighting like dogs against City! :)
  7. Apr 29, 2012
    #7

    kps88 Full Member

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    Newcastle could easily find themselves in 6th by the time the City game comes around. Have a feeling they'll be out of it by then.
  8. Apr 29, 2012
    #8

    AARRONB06 Full Member

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    Its only one game away isn't it? If they win there next game, they are still 4th aren't they?
  9. Apr 29, 2012
    #9

    Maciek Arrogant prick who is best ignored

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    And if Chelsea win the Champions League, they are in next year's group stage and the third team in the league play in Champions League play-off qualifiers.
  10. Apr 29, 2012
    #10

    kps88 Full Member

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    If they lose away to Chelsea (quite possible) and Chelsea and Spurs win, then they would be 6th come the City game.
  11. Apr 29, 2012
    #11

    prateik City Fan

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    ouch for Arsenal then.. Wenger will go mad if that happens.
  12. Apr 29, 2012
    #12

    prateik City Fan

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    Dont Chelsea have the FA cup finals. Their league game will be postponed.
  13. Apr 29, 2012
    #13

    kps88 Full Member

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    What league game? I was just saying if Chelsea win their next two fixtures (QPR and Newcastle) and if Spurs do the same (Blackburn and Bolton) , then Newcastle will be 6th come the City game.
  14. Apr 29, 2012
    #14

    SilentWitness Moderator

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    Liverpool were given a special case since we came 4th in that year and they had to start in the first qualifying round.

    It would be really harsh on Newcastle if after all the hard work they have put in to miss out on the champions league (if they get 4th).
  15. Apr 29, 2012
    #15

    prateik City Fan

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    Ah. I didnt realize Chelsea had 4 games left. Thought after tonight, they'll have the FA cup finals next weekend and wont play in the league till after that.

    Chelsea play newcastle after QPR.. 3-4 days before the cup final.. might be an advantage for Newcastle.
    Even if they win their next 2 games, they'll be just 2 points ahead of Newcastle with 2 games left (1 3 days after the FA cup finals and the other on the last day, a week before the CL finals)

    I think the 4th spot its there for Spurs to claim. They have a much better GD than Newcastle as well..
  16. Apr 29, 2012
    #16

    1999united2008 Banned

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    if Chelsea win the UCL but finish outside the top 4 they still qualify for next seasons UCL but only 4 English teams can so as a result the team that did finish 4th would only qualify for the Europa League and the other Europa league spots would be reallocated position wise as a result of that so far as I know :)
  17. Apr 29, 2012
    #17

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    Impossible for them to be out of it when they play City, they'll be in the mix.
  18. Apr 29, 2012
    #18

    CheadleBeagle Full Member

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    I find it unfair that a team which finishes 4th by hard work all year could lose out to a team that concentrates on the CL because they've been crap for at least part of the year and cannot get top 4. I think there should be a one game play off between Chelsea, if they win and whoever is 4th. So what if Chelsea could not defend their title if they lose; they should have played better through out the season.
  19. Apr 29, 2012
    #19

    antihenry Full Member

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    I hope you're not suggesting that finishing fourth in the domestic league is on par with actually winning the CL.
  20. Apr 29, 2012
    #20

    rednev God Save My Gracious Queen

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    Is it the FA's decision who gets the 4th CL place (should Chelsea come 5th and win the CL) or would Chelsea automatically take the 4th CL place at the expense of Newcastle?

    In 2005, it was up the FA and they ruled that the 4th placed team (Everton) should get the 4th CL place and not Liverpool. UEFA made a one-off exception for Liverpool and allowed 5 English teams to compete.
  21. Apr 29, 2012
    #21

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    When it comes to selecting the four best teams in the country, of course it is.
  22. Apr 29, 2012
    #22

    adexkola American Arse

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    It's the automatic decision.
  23. Apr 29, 2012
    #23

    Arruda Full Member

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    I think it's only fair that the CL winner gets a spot in the following season, regardless of league performance. Tough luck for whoever gets 4th if Chelsea wins it.
  24. Apr 29, 2012
    #24

    RK Full Member

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    You're right, it's not. It's ludicrous that a team could be kicked out of a Champions League spot for essentially no good reason.
  25. Apr 29, 2012
    #25

    antihenry Full Member

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    Perhaps UEFA should make an exception in such cases and allow an additional spot for the 4th placed team.

    But if we're talking about who deserves it more, the CL winner is an automatic choice, before any other team.
  26. Apr 29, 2012
    #26

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    Finishing 4th in the league is a much better achievement than only concentrating on the CL in this case. Especially as one team has spent a far greater amount than the other on building their team / recruiting managers, yet couldn't even finish in the top 4
  27. Apr 29, 2012
    #27

    rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks

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    They should make a playoff between the two teams really, could just do it as a 3rd qualifying round match. You could play the Champions League anthem for it and everything. Winner goes onto Play-Offs.

    Only problem with that is the 3rd qualifying round this year is not long after the euros, but its fine for loads of other teams like Celtic.

    But yeah, Chelsea will get it if they win the Champions League.

    Oh and finishing 5th or 6th and winning the Champions League > finishing 4th
  28. Apr 29, 2012
    #28

    Rado_N Grinner ruined my tagline

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    Well you would say that.

    As far as I'm concerned if you're not good enough to finish in the top 4 then tough shit, why should anyone give a crap if the 2012 winners don't qualify to play in the 2013 competition?
  29. Apr 29, 2012
    #29

    Brophs The one and only

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    The winners of any tournament shouldn't get automatic qualification, regardless of what tournament it is.
  30. Apr 29, 2012
    #30

    rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks

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    The winners have always been given a place is why. Real Madrid didn't win the league 5 times in a row when they won their first 5 European Cups. Nottingham Forest and Liverpool both qualified for the European Cup on several occasions, even meeting each other even though it was only "1 team per country".

    The winners have always been put into the competition.
  31. Apr 29, 2012
    #31

    Sewelly The Geordie Full Member

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    TBH, it is embarrassing that there is four teams qualifying for the 'Champions League' in the first place.
  32. Apr 29, 2012
    #32

    Brophs The one and only

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    Yeah, you need at least six or seven.
  33. Apr 29, 2012
    #33

    vanthaman Winner

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    Only problem with that is the winners go straight in group stage

    They could make 3rd place play 4th for the final spot
  34. Apr 29, 2012
    #34

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps.

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    I wouldn't say Chelsea have been solely focusing on the Champion's League like some are suggesting. They might well still get fourth and win the thing. They are one a good run at the moment- hell even Torres is scoring.
  35. Apr 29, 2012
    #35

    Will Absolute Full Member

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    Don't agree. Unless you define the ability to grind out results consistently over a 38 game league season as the only way to be a good football team.

    We've excelled at that in the Fergie years, but we've slightly underachieved in Europe, perhaps because we've lacked that extra touch of quality in quarter and semi finals of the CL against major European teams who were equally 'up for it'. 'Character' is probably more important in the league.
  36. Apr 29, 2012
    #36

    rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks

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    Yeah they would have to bend the rules for my idea.
  37. Apr 29, 2012
    #37

    adexkola American Arse

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    Yeah, I'd much rather have the likes of the champions of Liuthania in the Champions League ahead of Lazio/Madrid...
  38. Apr 29, 2012
    #38

    Amir Full Member

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    I really think it's time people got past the name... We know it's not actually a CHAMPIONS League, it hasn't been that for 15 odd years and it will never be again.

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