The Champions League needs an overhaul

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Peanut Butter, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Sep 13, 2017

    AXVnee7 Full Member

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    I think the current format is fine as it is. Maybe some changes to the seeding system will help, but on the whole it's fine. The problem with other proposed formats is that either you filter strong competitors out of the competition or you end up having strong team vs strong team every game. This sounds good but then the fixtures lose their luster. United vs Real for example is a fairly rare fixture, and as result every time they play it's usually special.

    I like the idea of having the big teams 'warm up' so to speak in the group stages to then enter a royal rumble in the KO stages.
  2. Sep 13, 2017

    notcool Full Member

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    I doubt it would ever happen. The power of the big leagues is just too great.
  3. Sep 13, 2017

    JustFootballFan Thinks Balotelli & Pogba look the same

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    Given that the teams want to close the transfer window earlier, I think the easiest solution to accomodate these changes across Europe is to scratch at least two qualifying rounds, give a shitload of clubs additional financial planning stability and start the group stages a bit earlier.

    Make it 64 teams, 16 groups, two teams advance and just add one knockdout stage.

    This would guarantee about 16-20 league champions across Europe direct entry into the group stages and some guaranteed money to grow football in their countries. No worries they´d still stay far behind the top leagues that now have four guaranteed spots each, and will probably make more money in the additional knockout stage games then the no-hopers by gaining direct entrance into the group stages. It will not prevent lopsided results, but at least 80% of Europe will not feel like they are left behind by the emerging European Super-League. They´d at least have a chip and chair, instead of sleeping in the dumpster outside the casino.
  4. Sep 13, 2017

    Bruno Marques New Member

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    Can't really understand why population matter. Care to explain a little bit more?
  5. Sep 13, 2017

    RW2 Full Member

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    The problem with the current format, which I don't have too many problems with, is that in most groups there are two clearly better teams and two clearly inferior teams.

    We really know who's going to qualify.

    Look at it now:
    Group B: Bayern, PSG, Celtic, Anderlecht.
    Group C: Chelsea, Atletico Madrid, Roma, Qarabag
    Group D: Barcelona, Juventus, Sporting Lisbon, Olympiakos
    Group F: Man City, Napoli, Donetsk, Feyenoord.

    I haven't even mentioned Spurs' group yet.

    ;)

    The issue is SEEDING.

    Seeding is just another form of fixing. . . Ensuring the big boys are kept apart so that their money gravy train keeps on rolling in.

    In order to test this I did a draw of my own (yes I've too much time on my hands) with NO seeding.
    I assigned each team a number and used Google random number generator to pick the groups.
    The only UEFA rule I did keep was to keep teams from the same association apart.

    Groups were as follows:

    A: CSKA, Maribor, Olympiakos, Celtic
    B: Barcelona, Tottenham, Benfica, Bayern Munich
    C: Besiktas, RB Leipzig, Spartak Moscow, PSG
    D: Feyenoord, Juventus, Liverpool, Sevilla
    E: Atletico Madrid, Man City, Donetsk, Sporting Lisbon
    F: Anderlecht, Real Madrid, AS Roma, Qarabag,
    G: APOEL, Manchester Utd, AS Monaco, Borussia Dortmund
    H: Chelsea, Porto, Napoli, Basel.

    Looking at this:
    A looks like a nice minnows group, B a group of death, PSG to qualify from C but I couldn't pick a runner up, Juventus-Liverpool-Sevilla up for two places in D,
    E, F, H predictable enough.
    Man U-Monaco-Dortmund fighting for the 2 spots in G

    Decide to run a competition with no seeding and only group winners qualifying for a quarter final and you've got a whole new setup altogether.
  6. Sep 13, 2017

    RW2 Full Member

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    It's very simple. Where you've a larger population the footballing infrastructure, finances and talent is going to be greater.
  7. Sep 13, 2017

    Bruno Marques New Member

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    Sorry, but the data doesn't make that true. If it was, the 4 more powerfull countries in football would be Russia, Germany, Turkey and France and they aren't.
  8. Sep 13, 2017

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    There is not a way possible for a side like Linfield could close the gap financially. Even pre Bosman it was not possible.
  9. Sep 13, 2017

    RW2 Full Member

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    But you didn't mention the next three countries (in order of population). . . the UK, Italy and Spain.

    These are traditional football mad countries (over say Turkey or Russia) and are "overachieving" relative to their population.

    PS: Two of those top four you mentioned have a large proportion of their populations in Asia - Turkey & Russia.
  10. Sep 13, 2017

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    It is not the only thing that matters but, it definitely matters. It is a big reason why Brazil and Germany are the most successful national teams.
  11. Sep 13, 2017

    AlwaysRed66 Full Member

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    Trouble is it is having the opposite effect. These clubs get in the Champions League, make piles of money coming nowhere, then dominate their leagues as the other teams cannot compete. The consequence is the leagues & these clubs are getting weaker not stronger.

    One way I would improve it is by giving the bulk of the money for playing in the Champions League to the whole league, with a small amount going to the club playing in Europe, with more dependant on how far they progress. Mind you, it won't happen, as it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.
  12. Sep 13, 2017

    Stacks Full Member

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    No it will not. champions league money alone is not enough to make you a challenger. see Arsenal
  13. Sep 13, 2017

    Stacks Full Member

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    I like this. A random draw would be great.
  14. Sep 13, 2017

    Jagga7 Full Member

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    If we want it to be more exciting, we should get rid of group stages all together and just have a 2 legged K.O format from the start.
  15. Sep 13, 2017

    RedFish Full Member

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    Wouldnt mind it being knock out over 2 legs from round 1 and just champions of each league.
  16. Sep 13, 2017

    adexkola American Arse

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    Then shit, let's bin off all the other leagues and have a SuperLeague, eh?

    Of course it won't close the gap completely, but it would make things more interesting.
  17. Sep 13, 2017

    Furious George Full Member

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    Two northern and two southern conferences of 8 teams each, and then some sort of grand mash up in the spring. Too big to fail, etc.
  18. Sep 13, 2017

    Glanville95 Full Member

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    I still find it very exciting.

    There are always upcoming, exciting teams you want to see go shoulder to shoulder with Europe's finest. Monaco last season, RB Leipzig this season. It's a shame there's been a fire sale at Monaco but they still possess quality.

    I don't think the latter stages of the completion will be as telegraphed as in recent seasons.

    Barcelona are over-reliant on Messi, despite their good start to the season; Atletico run they risk of going stale with their transfer ban; winning three consecutive Champions League's remains a tall order regardless of Madrid quality and Bayern aren't the same force.

    PSG have never really posed a genuine threat in Europe but are very much in the reckoning now. Juve look more vulnerable with Bonucci gone, but still possess a lot of quality. Then going off this first game week, the PL sides look like they actually could be worthy participants in the comp for the first time in years.

    It always remains exciting IMO. I like the format the way it is.
  19. Sep 13, 2017

    RedCoffee Rants that backfired

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    Two groups of 10 elite teams. Play 9 games. Winner of each group into the final.
  20. Sep 13, 2017

    Pavl3n Full Member

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    They need to up the bar of the referees. If anyone just watched the Spurs Dortmund game would understand me. Shocking is an understatement.
  21. Sep 13, 2017

    Red Star One Full Member

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    Imagine if we end up playing Barca, PSG, Juve and Borussia all at Old Trafford while City in their group draw Munich, Real and Atletico away :lol::lol::lol: the ragspiracy

    Would be a bit random and unfair
  22. Sep 13, 2017

    Grylte "nothing wrong with some friendly incest, bro"

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    You need an overhaul, the CL is fine.
  23. Sep 13, 2017

    Peyroteo ahahahahah feck off dad!

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    Shakhtar just beat Napoli. Roma are good enough to finish above Atletico or Chelsea with some luck and if Juve comes to Lisbon and loses they'll be in trouble, they were actually eliminated by Galatasaray in the group stages a few years ago. They're favourites but it's not like it's guaranteed and they'll have it easy. PSG and Bayern are the only ones where they're pretty much already qualified but the fight for first place will also be interesting in that group.

    I don't see any problems with the current groups tbh.
  24. Sep 13, 2017

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Salary cap and all teams have to field atleast 6 players from their native country.

    Wait that still means Barca, Bayern an Real will always win
  25. Sep 14, 2017

    Stacks Full Member

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    I think we should remove seeds. Just have a random draw for the group stage
  26. Sep 14, 2017

    Jacko21 Full Member

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    It's still a great competition when you get down to the nitty gritty. The QF/SF's still make for some of the most compelling sport around.

    Though admittedly, I am less starry-eyed about the Champions League these days, but that's a combination of getting older and broadcast changes - Sky did a great job when it came to European competitions, I'm not keen on BT's CL coverage.

    I just want to see big European games back at Old Trafford. Some of my fondest memories at OT have been games against Roma, Milan, Barca, Inter, Real... the Champions League felt different then - but nostalgia does that to you.
  27. Sep 14, 2017

    Pagh Wraith New Member

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    Love the competition the way it is. Don't change anything!
  28. Sep 14, 2017

    Sunspear17 New Member

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    The one thing with CL, is it's pretty much predictable. You can guarantee Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, and now PSG will reach at least the quarter finals, and then chuck in a Prem club or Italian club such as Juve into the mix. For the last couple years it's been a bit tedious. Not much else one can do though unless they change it entirely and only have top 3/4 clubs in the strongest leagues battle it out in a competition for a trophy like was being proposed a couple years back.
  29. Sep 14, 2017

    TakeMeHome TakeMeHome

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    Unseeded groups will make it much more interesting. Also non of this you cant have the 2 teams from the same country in one group nonsense. Imagine a group of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Manchester United and PSG for example :drool::eek:
  30. Sep 14, 2017

    adexkola American Arse

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    That would be a step in the right direction too.
  31. Sep 14, 2017

    WackyWengerWorld Full Member

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    I'd personally like to see a true European Super League home and away system. Barce, Real, Atletico, Bayern, Dortmund, Juve, PSG, City, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs. There's 24 home and away games over a season. Tool off the small nations, they could have their own seperate league. The question mark is qualifying/relegation system etc.
  32. Sep 14, 2017

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    It would completely lose its lure. The main excitement of big European ties is that you only get a handful of them in a decade. Playing Real Madrid and Barcelona every single year would get boring quickly.
  33. Sep 14, 2017

    Nanook Full Member

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    You wouldn't have Inter and Milan in a European super league? They're the 2nd/3rd most supported teams in Italy but England gets 6 teams? A European super league would need at least 20-30 teams. 24 games is nowhere near enough.
  34. Sep 14, 2017

    adexkola American Arse

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    Also this, so the rest of football can move on to more egalitatian models. The big clubs can feck off if this ever becomes a thing.
  35. Sep 14, 2017

    roonster09 Full Member

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    Playing in European super cup means these big clubs will become midtable clubs like the one we have in leagues when they finish at the bottom of the table.

    European super league is the worst idea, I think second worst after 39th league game shit.
  36. Sep 14, 2017

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    That is actually a very good point. Football would become competitive like it was in the 90s or 80s.
  37. Sep 14, 2017

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    Imagine the likes of Juventus and Bayern having nothing to play for with 10 league games to spare.
  38. Sep 14, 2017

    roonster09 Full Member

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    Not sure if this for or against super league :D
  39. Sep 14, 2017

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    We know Feyenoord is not going to qualify, the other 3 all have a shot though :p
  40. Sep 14, 2017

    RoyH1 Full Member

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    The current setup is the best compromise between ensuring that the top clubs won't break off to a European Super league, and having cities like Nicosia, Basel or Rotterdam still enjoying top level football.

    Personally I miss the old European cup. Champions of each league in a pure knockout stage. We'll never again see a team like Steua or Red Star Belgrade winning a tournament.