The dilemma of our fullbacks | Revisited

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Desert Eagle, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Feb 21, 2018
    #1

    Desert Eagle Punjabi Dude

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    9,134
    We need them. We need them badly. Valencia has sufficed for a bit. Young was never good enough. Shaw could be the answer at left back but he's inconsistent. Something we really need to address in the summer. Discuss
  2. Feb 21, 2018
    #2

    Mullet_Man New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    231
    He clearly doesn't rate or trust Shaw, I'd seriously be annoyed if Young is still our left back next season.
  3. Feb 21, 2018
    #3

    Skills Snitch

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    25,896
    The manager hasn't got a clue how to use them anyway. Won't make a difference.

    When will people realise its not just the fecking players? Guardiola has been playing Fabian fecking delph as his LB pretty much the whole season.

    We've a new attack and we're still fecking shite? Like what the feck will it take for you guys to get the message?
  4. Feb 21, 2018
    #4

    dannyrhinos89 OMG socks and sandals lol!

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Messages:
    9,080
    We need a couple of CMs first
  5. Feb 21, 2018
    #5

    marktan Full Member Scouse Lover

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,529
    When did we get a new attack? We're still playing Mata on the RW, and basically like for like replaced Martial with Sanchez on the LW.

    Compare it to all the other top 5 PL teams and they have a far stronger front 3 / wide options than us.
  6. Feb 21, 2018
    #6

    Samid follows Pogue around, fixing his images

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    17,097
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    We need:

    • Two new fullbacks
    • Two new CBs that can stay fit and play half decently
    • One defensive mid
    • One B2B mid
    • One right winger
    • One striker

    Apart from that we're good to go imo.
  7. Feb 21, 2018
    #7

    Invictus Best Poster 2015 Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    11,739
    Supports:
    Piracy on the High Seas
  8. Feb 21, 2018
    #8

    Desert Eagle Punjabi Dude

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    9,134
    Cheers mate. I'm interested to hear if any fellow reds think the options we have are good enough and if it's Mourinho/tactics that are the problem and not the players.
  9. Feb 21, 2018
    #9

    northender New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    38
    Supports:
    Preston North End
    United arguably 2 full backs, a top CB, a couple of top CMs and a RW off where they need to be.

    Plus huge improvement needed from Lukaku. United’s striker must be elite level.

    You need to do more in the summer window than previously under Mourinho. 1-2 first team additions each year isn’t enough.
  10. Feb 21, 2018
    #10

    Kag Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2013
    Messages:
    14,238
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    We really don't.

    We'll buy these players and they'll encounter the same problems that great players like Pogba and Sanchez are finding.

    Full backs are a bit of a problem, granted. But this is one that Mourinho has had opportunity to sort out. If Shaw wasn't for him then he should have bought a proper left back in the summer. Valencia is largely fine. So are our centre halves - who kept yet another clean sheet tonight in spite of no attempt to play attacking football.

    A right winger would be a nice addition (could have told you that in the summer) but we've just bought Sanchez to compliment the likes of Lukaku, Martial and Rashford.

    Seriously, when do we learn? How many more clearly good players do we need to churn through before the penny drops that there are real problems elsewhere?

    We needed a defensive midfielder in the summer and bought Matic. Herrera is a perfectly good midfielder. Mata is a solid option to have around. Lukaku is a goal machine if you give him the service (tonight's miss notwithstanding).

    Our players are so much better than this. Whoever we buy (Dybala, Kroos, Griezmann, random Fancy Dan) honestly, it's not changing much.
  11. Feb 21, 2018
    #11

    Schmeichel's Cartwheel Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    Messages:
    922
    Location:
    Manchester
    I'd sell Blind, Darmian & Young. Keep Shaw & Valencia, bring back TFM as back-up right back, and sign a top quality left back to be first choice (please not Danny Rose)
  12. Feb 21, 2018
    #12

    Odeon New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Bosnia
    The best fullbacks in the world won't help us if they are instructed to stay back.

    See what Alaba does at Bayern when he plays with Ribery? They play 2vs3 on the left.
    See what Marcelo does at Madrid when he plays with Ronaldo (or whoever the feck plays left there)? They play 2vs3 on the left.

    See what Alba does at Barca when he is allowed to go forward? Alex Sandro at Juve? You can guess.

    It seems Mourinho doesn't trust our whole defence when facing a counter attack from the opposite team, thats why our fullbacks are not allowed to bomb forward in games like today. Risk aversion at its finest.

    You can't expect Sanchez or Martial to create something from a 1vs3. Put Sanchez on the right and allow Valencia to support him and put Martial on the left and allow Shaw to support him and you have a whole new situation. But Mourinho classic is let one defender stay defensive and one is allowed to play offensive. None of that happened today, they both stayed defensive. Pogba wasn't allowed to go forward either, but that is another topic. We will see our fullbacks overlapping at OT though, I hope it's not too late then.
  13. Feb 21, 2018
    #13

    Isotope Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    11,494
    Location:
    InPrivate
    So.., we need Guardiola? I don't think it is allowed one manager managing two teams.
  14. Feb 21, 2018
    #14

    edgar allan Full Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    1,847
    If you thought our central defenders were fine tonight then you had the red tinted glasses on. We got a clean sheet but more by luck and great goal keeping. Another night and a more clinical attack we would have been well beaten.
    I take your point about our defensive set up but let's be honest both Valencia's and especially Youngs attacking and creative output when they get a chance is so very limited.
    We have problems all over the pitch for sure but the lack of any attacking contribution from either and their very poor crossing and final ball is certainly a major factor.
  15. Feb 21, 2018
    #15

    Kag Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2013
    Messages:
    14,238
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    They both defended well. Any central defensive pair would have conceded chances tonight. For the first fifteen minutes alone I don't think we managed five passes in a row.

    De Gea made two very good saves but the amount of shots on goal had more to do with the entire team's approach to the game rather than the responsibility and performance of the defenders.

    Agree on Valencia and Young, although I do think Valencia is a good enough option for the time being. As for Young, we should be playing Shaw and giving him a proper go.
  16. Mar 5, 2018
    #16

    Amar__ Not so Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Messages:
    16,339
    Location:
    Sarajevo
    Supports:
    MK Dons
    This reminds me so much of the Olympiakos away game under Moyes. Valencia and Young were our pair of wingers in that game, and they were literally scared of the ball. Couple of years later, they are scared of the ball playing as fullbacks for us. And they are our senior players in the team who should be leading the team. Valencia and Young are our first choice fullbacks after so many years, would you believe it back then?
  17. Mar 5, 2018
    #17

    NK86 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    8,342
    Young should be sold immediately. Has maybe one decent game in 10. Cannot believe he stinks the place out and yet Shaw doesn't get a look in. Same for Martial. Plays well and then gets dropped the next game. Mourinho is so fecking stupid at times, it's beyond belief. I see him getting fired next season as I don't see this team going anywhere with him in charge. Hope we still have Martial and Shaw when he leaves.
  18. Mar 5, 2018
    #18

    flappyjay Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,498
    What game are you two watching. Our players are refusing to pass the ball to them even though their in acres of space. Even the commentators have been harping on about it too
  19. Mar 5, 2018
    #19

    walkinhop Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    2,443
    Location:
    Cyprus Hill.
    I agree that both sides need rejuvenation but can't seem to see how are they related to today's issues.
  20. Mar 5, 2018
    #20

    Kag Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2013
    Messages:
    14,238
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I had this exact thought, too. The Olympiakos debacle was four years ago now, and we've still got Valencia and Young with responsibly for our width. I don't mind Valencia at right back - I think he's a decent option - but it's quite staggering we're in this position.
  21. Mar 5, 2018
    #21

    DWelbz19 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    18,107
    That youth fullback playing his second game for Palace shows more ambition and drive in his play.
  22. Mar 5, 2018
    #22

    TheFlagStaysDown Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    1,110
    Location:
    Prague
    Supports:
    Shamrock rovers
    That's a nonsense Young has been decent even last games, it's just the general frustration here which makes him to look worse and the frustration that Shaw cannot get a game but I think Young adjusted really well to that role but in ideal world he shouldn't be a first choice.

    But seeing Luke Shaw doesn't fill me with hope either, he's pretty useless attacking wise and really not perfect defensively either, if he cannot bench Young there's something wrong. We need a new left back for sure.

    Hate this irrational hate for Young and Valencia, they shouldn't be automatic choice week in week out but they are the best in their positions right now
  23. Mar 5, 2018
    #23

    NK86 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    8,342
    Young has been shite bar a few games. All he does is cross aimlessly or pass backwards. He does not even link up with his winger well. This is not irrational but based on viewing him as he plays.
  24. Mar 5, 2018
    #24

    Amar__ Not so Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Messages:
    16,339
    Location:
    Sarajevo
    Supports:
    MK Dons
    Even Mourinho realised it. To change Valencia in a game like this is really surprising. His attacking positioning was absolutely terrible.

    Anyway, we definitely need new fullbacks, this situation is a mess.
  25. Mar 5, 2018
    #25

    Woodzy Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,441
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Our biggest problem for me.
  26. Mar 5, 2018
    #26

    Denis_unwise New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    111
    We really should have been starting Shaw when he'd got himself fully back fit. Looks like he's lost all conditioning while not playing. The league was gone so there was nothing wrong with giving him an extended run. As it is we go into next season still not knowing if he is going to be our permanent LB.
  27. Mar 5, 2018
    #27

    DWelbz19 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    18,107
    Unsurprising we looked a lot, lot more aggressive with both fullbacks taken off for players more competent going forward.
  28. Mar 5, 2018
    #28

    FootyGirl88

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
    Messages:
    4,560
    I think the penny has finally dropped with Jose, he took both fullbacks off tonight so that should set alarm bells ringing.
  29. Mar 5, 2018
    #29

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    9,993
    Location:
    On my sofa enjoying pineapple on its own
    They were todays key issues and we went as far as replacing them both and putting Lingard as an RB ffs :houllier:

    Oh look, Jose just mentioned it as well. :lol:
  30. Mar 5, 2018
    #30

    Kush Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,368
    Dunno what has happened to Valencia but he's been absolutely terrible since turn of the year, back peddles all the time instead of getting stuck in.

    Ashley Young I still don't know what he's doing at the club never mind being the first choice left-back, it's pretty clear Mourinho doesn't fancy Shaw so we need a couple of new full backs this summer. Our current lot slow down the play far too much.
  31. Mar 5, 2018
    #31

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    21,338
    Location:
    Egypt
    It's criminal that Valencia's firs assist of the season came in March. :houllier:

    Both are faulty for our lack of width. Valencia rarely makes good offensive crosses and Young always tends to cut inside instead of keeping width because he's right footed.

    Both need replacement next summer.
  32. Mar 5, 2018
    #32

    NinjaFletch Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    15,961
    They're both awful. Looking around other clubs the difference in quality between our fullbacks and the competition's is greater than anywhere else on the pitch.

    The position is integral in the modern game and we simply have to have better players there.
  33. Mar 5, 2018
    #33

    Ainu Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    5,793
    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    He finally found a solution tonight, just sub both off the pitch! Seriously though, we need to have a - dare I say it - City-style full-back overhaul during the summer. They are key positions in modern football.
  34. Mar 5, 2018
    #34

    slir32 Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    6,261
    Location:
    Sydney
    I love Valencia but we need a quality starting right back (Valencia as the second choice) if we want to compete with the best we also need a better quality backup left back to rotate with Shaw no more Young he is a good professional but not god enough for a tittle winning team.
  35. Mar 5, 2018
    #35

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    9,993
    Location:
    On my sofa enjoying pineapple on its own
    Yeah, because a world renowed coach with his success could not see the issues we have. The fact is that we don't have an alternative so he has to play who he has. He was not in the position to spend another 150 million after bringing in 4 players in already.
  36. Mar 5, 2018
    #36

    squidoo Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    921
    yep..Sanchez was clearly showing his frustration with Valencia for not moving forward into acres of space.
  37. Mar 5, 2018
    #37

    Reddevildans Full Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    Beyond the Wall
    So much of modern attacking football revolves around having good or great full backs. We simply don't have them. Both simply don't show enough ingenuity and guile at full back. We simply need a good left footed left back to bring balance to the team. These are two positions I hope Jose solves In the summer.
  38. Mar 5, 2018
    #38

    Handré1990 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,967
    Location:
    In hibernation
    If I could chose two positions to strengthen in the summer it would be both fullback positions - and a class CM.

    Marcelo is my guilty pleasure, not RM!
  39. Mar 5, 2018
    #39

    buckooo1978 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,772
    I don't see how we've any choice but to play an under-performing Valencia and Young at the weekend

    Shaw in all honesty looks in terrible shape

    our 2 priority signings in the summer
  40. Mar 5, 2018
    #40

    Minimalist Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    Messages:
    13,219
    They're not a strength of our side, that's for sure.