Discussion in 'Current Events' started by ralphie88, Oct 11, 2009.
That last video pissed me off no end.
Some have tried to excuse their behaviour by saying, they are only against 'militant islam', and that stand is admirable. As we can see from the videos, they certainly took care of militant muslims....
Oh course the funny bit is other 'minorities' getting involved in this...yeah well done, fcuktards.
Deary me. You expect some damage to be done/some objects to be hurled at police during a march of thugs, but the way they were prepared to attack and intimidate women and children who were either just going about their every day lives, or actually trying to avoid the events by staying off the streets is very worrying. What's more worrying is that the EDL's support seems to be growing with every protest.
I'm not sure if the police's method of banning marches through confinement is the right way to go. It just gets the participants even more wound up, and as we can see from the video, it doesn't actually work. Either way, the EDL and its growing appeal is something that needs to be addressed.
These tossers are back in Leicester again this Saturday. Lovely stuff.
If only the govt didn't pander to immigrants and minorities
Why is it they target Leicester so often? Is it because of highly multicultural nature? I mean I'd imagine that most of them aren't from there and that the locals are probably a tad bit peeved off at the inbreds swarming in and destroying their property.
I'm going on a march, coz I want Britain to be about british. I want Britain to be about british.
I'm sick of immigrants coming over here and taking the jobs we can't be arsed doing, so I for one am glad that some football hooligans from Stoke are going to get drunk and shout a bit. That'll show the bastards.
They're stealing our women too! Not that I've actually got any women, but if I had any they'd be stealing them! And also drinking my beer, even though I don't drink!!1!!!
that's no longer the line...
You're meant to be sick of immigrants coming over here, and taking advantage of the welfare system.
They're so confused, stop taking our jobs..... stop sitting on your arses, and cheating our welfare system...haha.
They're stealing your sheep, Steve!
Probably in the hope that they can get some sort of reaction from the ethnic locals... hopefully no such thing will happen and they'll just be ignored, as they should be.
I went into Durham centre on a Sunday(?) last November and, as luck would have it, there was an EDL march that day. Fortunately there was no trouble, though it's a little disconcerting when you're standing at the side of a narrow street so you can be out of the way of a bunch of thugs who are walking past... and you have brown skin. Yeah, definitely not the nicest experience of my life.
I'm amazed that they haven't noticed that "damn foreigners" have been coming here since forever and most of them came from damn foreigner stock somewhere down the line. How many generations need to be born here and how white do you need to be to be considered English?
Is Tommy Hatcher their leader?
Tommy Robinson, seen a documentary about them last night
Who said that people who hold right wing views were of lower IQ levels?
After watching that crap, I say bring on the Muslamic Infidel Islamic Iraqi Law!
The most amusing thing about the EDL is how a vast majority of their support base don't actually understand what the point of the EDL is supposed to be.
Imagine going to the trouble of setting up a group of people aimed specifically at hating the French, because you're a bit racist like that...but then suddenly loads of cretins start joining your group so they can wale on anyone who looks or sounds a bit foreign like, and then as a result some French people join your group because they hate the Spanish. It's like a layer system of complete idiots, and each layer can only see the idiocy of the layer below them, and than at the bottom you've got the people who are basicaly just angry confused 6 year olds but with an older looking face.
Me and a mate had an encounter with one of these bottom layer types the other week. It took 10 minutes to explain to him that it's the "EDL", and that "EDF" was actually a utility company and most likely not interested in extremist political leanings. After this he resorted to repeated use of the term "fuck off then", which we did since he was a West Ham fan and therefore liable to have several hundred of his mates smash our heads in.
Muslamic infidel law is coming you guys
Obviously EDL are a bunch of spectacularly unintelligent thugs. But I do find it somewhat worrying that just about the only people willing to talk honestly about the grave threat islam poses to the Western civilization are just that... unintelligent thugs. I find it hard to disagree with Sam Harris, who makes this point all the time:
The people who speak most sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe are actually fascists.
Leftists are more concerned with masochistic tendencies, and blaming ourselves for being so "racist", xenophobic etc. Cultural relativism is extremely dangerous.
Yeah.... down with the EDL.
Saliph, the kinds of things you say about Islam are similar to what I imagine the crusaders used to say about Islam. The grave threat Islam poses to Western civilisation? Its like Pope Eugene the third issuing the call to arms.
I've noticed you seem to have the very opposite view, even expressing an opinion that, if a man who has served in the healthcare, military and political branches of his country didn't like his country's foreign policy, he should get out. Quite what business you have telling a man who has served his country in so many different ways to get out of his own country I'm not really sure.
What is this 'grave threat Islam poses'? Last time I checked the majority of Muslims were living peacefully in Europe and the actions of a few hundred thousand terrorists (at most) should not define a religion of 1.5 billion plus.
The EDL have a racist agenda against all Muslims despite claiming that their issue is against radical Islam (terrorists) only. It is something which is becoming more and more common in Europe - hide behind the banner of 'radical Islam' to justify your racist attitude towards all Muslims.
I'm not really sure what the threat is exactly, other than a cultural one...you're not going to stop cultural change because the world moves and as long as it does everything else is going to keep moving with it.
Your way of life is not going to be swiped from under your feet by some guy with a beard. Otherwise you'd still be going to church each Sunday and devoiding yourself of material possession
Whatever. I'm not calling for any kind of murder or violence. I just want people to wake up and realize that many Islamic values are not reconcilable with Western civilization, and to take that fact seriously. But we keep shutting our eyes, and instead repeat politically correct clichés like "Islam is a religion of peace" etc. There's a refusal to admit the fact that the Islamic world is hostile towards free speech, freedom of the press, women's rights, and freedom of religion, to name a few. And we welcome them all to our civilization with the noble belief that they'll adjust to our way of living if they'll just be given the opportunity to live among us. Given what Islam teaches, I consider that to be incredibly naive. And I think it'll come back to bite us in the ass.
This is essentially it. And for that matter, who are the growing powers of the world? India, Brazil, China? Hardly muslim majority countries.
I do believe that Islam is the root cause for a whole lot of "evil" in the world, just as Catholicism was (and still is, to a lesser degree). That has had an effect on the culture of some places, but I don't believe for a second that it's some sort of grave threat to western civilization.
In fact, I think it's more of the opposite; western civilization is a grave threat to their culture. If other things didn't ensure progress, mass media (particularly the internet) will. Religion as a whole will decline in the Middle-East as well as the level of prosperity does.
We'll be fine.
Yeah, so what is your solution to the millions of Muslims already here? Extermination so that they can't get their disgusting, incompatible ideas into your pure culture? Forced repatriation? 'Voluntary repatriation'? Does Western civilisation just always require a scapegoat? You spent hundreds, if not thousands of years doing it to the Jews, the Gypsies etc, eventually taking it to its most sickening conclusion. So now we've moved on to the next ones? Muslims this time. Same kind of thing being said about them now as was being said about these other groups in the past.
So basically, you and Sam Harris are right, despite Harris himself, putting you in the company of fascists and unintelligent thugs...and everyone else is wrong. Right. Reminds me of an old military story.
I have rarely seen as polarised an opinion as currently being presented here. 'Western civilisation'...'the Islamic world'. Such generic, laboured, and factually incorrect terms. This is superb stuff though, goes along superbly with the dominant discourse of 'the West is best!' and 'Orientals are savage, brutal and incompatible with our own beliefs'.
Personally, I'd like to talk a little bit about how your noble and pure civilisation spent the last few hundred years systematically raping us savages in the rest of the world, often on the pretext of helping us to help ourselves. Or is it only the savage, incompatible muslims who do this kind of thing?
The West is currently working hard to change the culture in Islamic places, don't you worry. And its happening at a much faster rate than in the other direction. Congratulations.
This is similar to the accusations you leveled at Ron Paul. Stop blaming American foreign policy for the world hating you. It is not your fault. If you hate your country so much, why don't you just leave etc etc.
There is no religion which is entirely peaceful, every religion has its extremist elements which are not reconcilable with 'Western civilisation'.
Again, I ask why do the actions of a hundred thousand terrorists make the 1.5 billion religion as a whole a threat to Western civilisation? I'm no expert on Islamic history but from what I have watched, Islam has contributed a lot to 'Western civilisation' (maths, medicine, astronomy, physics), to think it's just a religion which hates Western values is silly.
That is true, a lot of the Muslim world does not have free speech or womens rights or freedom of religion, however the Arab spring in the past year has demonstrated that Muslims want to have more rights and freedoms. Changes cannot happen overnight, it takes hundreds of years to implement 'Western civilisation' - after all women were only given equal rights as men in the past 50-70 years, before that how many rights did women have in 'Western civilisation'?
Why do you think that every Muslim has contempt for the Western way of life? Do you not see the millions of Muslims living in Europe peacefully integrating with others in society? I think your opinion is very naive, to put every Muslim in the same boat as the radical elements is poor.
Do I really need to respond to that? Anyone?
Seems to me this africanspur chap hates Western civilization, hates freedom of speech, hates freedom of the press, hates freedom of religion, hates democracy.
I can create straw men too.
Unfortunately, I imagine for you, that isn't a straw man but truly what you think of me.
This is quite simply untrue. There are more religions in the world than the Abrahamic ones.
You should read Pew Research's studies on this topic, among others. We're talking about quite a bit more than "a hundred thousand". We're talking about mainstream doctrines in Islam which are incompatible with Western civilization, and principles like freedom of speech etc.
Islam, or science? Islam is not a method. Islamic scientists (or rather, scientists who are muslims) may have contributed "a lot" to the field of science, but Islam has nothing to do with science.
- Really? Libya? Egypt? This so-called "Arab spring" seems to have everything to do with Islam.
- Because of Islamic scripture.
- That's because you're misunderstanding my argument. I don't put every person who labels him or herself a muslim in the same boat as people who fly planes into buildings. Obviously there are plenty of people in the West (and in the Islamic world) who are not violent at all, and who appreciate unnegotiable values like freedom of speech etc. But that in itself has nothing to do with Islam. It has to do with their own secularization. They've abandonded Islamic values in favor or Western values.
I don't give a fuck what you imagine. Anyone who says things like this to me:
You spent hundreds, if not thousands of years doing it to the Jews, the Gypsies etc, eventually taking it to its most sickening conclusion
.. does not deserve my response. Just fuck off.
And yet, here you are, delivering a response.
You are the one so eager to polarise the discussion into the black and white of 'Islamic' and 'West', as if there is no in-between whatsoever between those groups, or as if every member within those groups is uniform in their beliefs, ideals and actions.
I personally find your beliefs intolerant, poorly thought out and abhorrent. Yet I'm not the one getting worked up. If I do not deserve your response and clearly rile you up so, put me on your ignore list. But I certainly am not going to skirt around a topic simply because my input upsets you. There is a very simple solution.
I wonder if Saliph is also concerned with the non-Muslims who are also not comfortable the path we in the West are taking? Or is it just the 3 to 4% of Muslims in the West such a massive threat to Western Civilisation? I suggest if Saliph looked beyond his anti Islamic stand he'll find a massive percentage of people in Europe and Mid USA just as discontented if not more with Western civilisation.
2. I honestly don't give a fuck. You obviously can't be arsed to actually read what I've written, and so I don't particularly feel a need to respond to your bullshit opinions and nonsensical claims.
Even if Islamic doctrines are incompatible a lot of Muslims (majority of 90% imo) have adopted and accepted these 'Western values' and they do so without losing their religious identity.
I cannot comment on this without doing any/further research but from the few documentaries I have seen, Muslims were very prominent in developing science. Furthermore, there is some discussion of science/scientific elements in the Quran itself - again I cannot comment on this without learning more about it.
Has it been instigated under the guise of 'Islam'? It seems to me people want freedoms from the tyranny of their regimes rather than more supression. There is certainly less of an Islamic influence in the Arab spring than there is in Pakistan where the terrorist element is emerging more prominently.
Tell me, have you read the Quran yourself and understood what it says yourself? Or are you relying on what you have read from other people on the internet or what these extremists are saying to justify their stupid actions?
I'm a Muslim living very happily in England, I've not abandoned my Islamic values and neither have many Muslims. I choose not to believe everything that I am told regarding my religion, anyone who believes something is true because person 'x' told them is a fool imo. I have read the Quran many times but I do not consider myself an expert on its values or on my religion as I do not speak nor understand Arabic. Once I have read a translated version I will better understand its values and principles and be able to say definitively what the Quran does or does not say. People cherry-pick sentences/paragraphs from the Quran to justify their statements and beliefs. I don't think anyone (Muslim or not) should tell me or anyone else what the Quran says until they have read the text in its entirety and understood for themselves what the Quran is saying. To rely on the internet or some buffoon on TV is wrong.
Is your argument that Islam and Western values cannot co-exist?
What's wrong with his opinion? Your response to his post suggest you are rattled and have no real answer to post.
PS: There's no need to resort to such language in the CE forum.
I know you don't. But you're clearly getting a little upset so probably best to put me on your ignore list, to ensure you don't find yourself inadvertently responding to my bullshit opinions and nonsensical claims. Again, despite claims that I apparently do not deserve your response.
I was always taught that a person who resorts to insults has already lost the argument. Take from that what you will before hopefully putting me on the old ignore list and calming down.
Separate names with a comma.