The 'EDL'

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by ralphie88, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. Feb 11, 2012

    jakec nightclub John Terry

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    Saliph, I'm not extremely well read on Islam. I have my issues with Sharia law and other Islamic cultures, but to presume that all Muslims are like that, or any sort of majority, is a very narrow minded approach.

    I'm pretty sure that 99% of Muslims hate the Muslim extremists as much as you do.
  2. Feb 11, 2012

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy

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    Is Saliph suggesting that the million or so peaceful muslims who live in this country and abide by it's laws, whilst simultaenously following their religion without really bothering anyone, are going to rise up and take over??

    Would someone give me a heads up when this is about to happen, so I can go out and stock up on cans of Tuna.
  3. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    - Who cares about your opinion? "My opinion is that the majority of mulims 99,9% hate the West". If my opinion has no basis in reality, who gives a feck? You have to take into account scientific research. As I've said, go read Pew Research's opinion polls, for example. The results are quite appalling.

    - You completely missed my point again. Science is a method for obtaining truth, and as such has nothing to do with Islam. Even if ALL the people who developed science were muslims, it would have absolutely nothing to do with Islam in itself. It's as stupid as saying "science is responsible for Hiroshima and Nagasaki". It's completely nonsensical, because science is not an ideology. It's a method.

    - Neither Libya nor Egypt (nor Syria) have been particularly religious regimes in the past (like all totalitarian regimes they were religious in themselves, but that's beside the point), but they now seem certain to become Islamic states.

    - Large parts of it, yes. And please spare me the nonsense about interpretation. The Quran clearly states, repeatedly, that nonbelievers/infidels are to be hated, converted, subjugated or killed, for example. As a muslim you oughta know that.

    - Yes, absolutely. I'd say the same about Christianity, for example, but seeing as it has to a large degree become benign (at least in my country, Norway) due to scientific and secular progress, I'm not too worried about it.
  4. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    Indeed, I usually get a little upset when someone try to label me an anti-semitic mass murderer. Crazy, I know.

    No, I won't put you on ignore, seeing as you keep making outragous accusations about me. And the mods seemingly don't care about it.
  5. Feb 11, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    The influence of Christianity is ingrained history and culture of Western Civilization, and it's constitutions. It continues to be the case.
  6. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    Christianity has nothing to do with modern, Western civilization. It's outdated nonsense.
  7. Feb 11, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    Ok
  8. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    Except in the case of the US, I should add, where Christian fascists are constantly trying to legislate for their own biblical beliefs.
  9. Feb 11, 2012

    ha_rooney Full Member

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    feck scientific research, how many Muslims of the millions living in Europe have killed in the name of Islam? Look at facts not science, majority of Muslims live peacefully.


    Point taken.

    We'll see.

    I will not save you the 'nonsense of interpretation'. The Quran and every text can be interpreted differently depending on context, I will read it myself and reach my own conclusions without you or anyone else (unless they are a qualified scholar) telling me what it does or does not say.

    To think that as a Muslim 'I oughtta know' I have to apparently kill, hate, convert, subjugate non-Muslims is a racist comment in itself. Spare me the racism.


    Christianity is still important in Western culture and values.

    If you believe that religion (Islam, Christianity etc) is not apart of Western values or is not compatible with these values then it's your opinion and it is not shared by everyone else. Religion can and has coexisted with Western values, one does not need to perish for the other to survive.
  10. Feb 11, 2012

    niMic Curvy gay

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    And I'm all out of bubblegum.


    I tend to agree. People like to claim, even in Norway, that we are a nation based on Christian values. But we clearly are not. In fact, many of our core values are downright hostile to the values of the bible (the role of women, homosexuality, pro choice, etc). We are not a Christian nation; we are a secular nation.

    The US is different, though less than we fear. Even there rules and laws are to some degree keeping the religious right in check. They aren't allowed to do whatever they want. Some areas are really suffering though, like science education. Well, science in general.
  11. Feb 11, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    Damn

    Those fraud Islamic teachers have been teaching me the complete opposite. I need Saliphs version of the Quran. Need an excuse to go on an axe wielding rampage.
  12. Feb 11, 2012

    africanspur Full Member

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    The irony of you resorting to the straw man argument every time you cannot respond and then building a gigantic straw man here is clearly lost on you. 'Islamic values' are not compatible with 'Western' civilization'....'We'. For you, it boils down to a very simple we and them situation. Its as simple as that. All the squirming, faux outrage and swearing in the world won't hide that.

    The mods aren't doing anything about it because they're looking at it from an objective point of view and can clearly see that I'm not calling you an anti-semitic mass murderer. That by you, I am clearly referring to the 'Western civilization' that you seem so eager on holding up as a monolithic entity. Not one single person on this thread will have thought I was calling you that.

    So again. Put me on the ignore list. Or control yourself and ignore me without doing that. But I will not 'feck off' from discussions just so you don't have a hissy fit. And I don't keep on making outrageous comments about you, you don't register outside when we cross paths in a thread. Which is very rarely.
  13. Feb 11, 2012

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy

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    :lol: Oh dear...
  14. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    Excuse me? What, exactly, is factually wrong about the portion you've quoted?
  15. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    Really?
  16. Feb 11, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    :lol:

    This is what I call taking it out of context.
  17. Feb 11, 2012

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy

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    Pretty much everything in the context you're presenting it in... do you even know what verse you're quoting?
  18. Feb 11, 2012

    ha_rooney Full Member

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    Yes when actual facts demonstrate that majority of Muslims live peacefully. Science can say all it wants when reality proves it is wrong.
  19. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    You don't quite seem to grasp exactly what science is....
  20. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    So the Quran does not say to hate non-believers/infidels?

    No, not really, what verse was I quoting...?
  21. Feb 11, 2012

    ha_rooney Full Member

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    Does it matter if I know what science is or is not? What part of my statement is untrue? Do you honestly believe every Muslim is an enemy of Europe and the West?
  22. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    No, and I've never said that every person who labels him or herself a muslim hates the West, or cannot live peacefully within a Western society.. This is really tiring me out, I wish people would read what I write.

    Your statement is the equivalent of saying "feck scientific research.. the earth looks flat to me".
  23. Feb 11, 2012

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy

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    That'll be all folks.

    Oh, and no, it doesn't.
  24. Feb 11, 2012

    ha_rooney Full Member

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    I did read what you wrote:

    By reading your comments it seems you do not believe Islam and Western values can coexist and according to that Muslims cannot embrace Western values until they give up their religious values. By extension if you cannot embrace something, you cannot like it - so it seems to me you think practicing Muslims hate the West.
  25. Feb 11, 2012

    ha_rooney Full Member

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    :lol::lol:

    In this context
    are you really serious that this so called scientific research which warns you about the evils of Islam is more accurate than the facts which show Muslims are living peacefully in Western society?
  26. Feb 11, 2012

    Tibs Full Member

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    I feel sorry for Saliph
  27. Feb 11, 2012

    Hectic Moderator

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    Top meltdown Saliph. It was a rollercoaster of laughing and shaking my head.
  28. Feb 11, 2012

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

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    Is the CE forum always like this? :D
  29. Feb 11, 2012

    PhilipB Too soft for Dublin

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    I just want to say to the Muslims with the ray guns, I've always liked you guys. I hope you remember this when taking over.
  30. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    - Thankfully I have not done this. I suggest you read what I've written again.

    - And what do you base your opinion on? A hunch? Because scientific research begs to differ. It's nowhere near 99%. Support for bin Laden and suicide bombing against non-combatants has declined quite a bit in recent years in Islamic countries, but it's still at an alarming percentage. And if it's that high on extreme topics like bin Laden and suicide bombing, where do you think it is on for example blasphemy? How many people in the muslim world think that Kurt Westergaard should be killed for depicting the prophet? Or Salman Rushdie?
  31. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    Yes, it's comfortable for you to label it a meltdown. I don't mind being the devils advocate, that at least makes for a much more interesting discussion than thoughtless politically correct liberals condemning "racism" (as if an attack on a religion, a set of ideas, has anything to do with race) and xenophobia one after the other, without ever even considering the other side of the debate.
  32. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    There's no reason to.
  33. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    - That's right, they can't (unless you're a hypocrite and cherry-pick scripture like the so-called moderates do). For example, both Sunni and Shia hadiths say that apostates should be murdered. That is obviously not compatible with Western values. Which means that a muslim must choose between the Islamic doctrine of death as a punishment for apostasy, or freedom of religion.

    - They have to give up a lot of Islamic values and doctrines in order to embrace Western values, yes. Just like Christianity has been forced to.
  34. Feb 11, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    Saliph being so interested in statistics can maybe come up with number of apostates killed over the last century. Don't dig up cases of treason.
  35. Feb 11, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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  36. Feb 11, 2012

    ha_rooney Full Member

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    It seems like Saliph hates all religion so there is little point debating it with him.
  37. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    What an idiotic statement. You see little point in debating with people with whom you disagree?

    I think faith is by definition idiotic and stupid, yes. "Faith is not a virtue, and if it was, it would be the most overrated of all virtues."
  38. Feb 11, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center found relatively widespread popular support for death penalty as a punishment for apostasy in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30% in favor), Pakistan (76% favor) and Nigeria (51% in favor).
  39. Feb 11, 2012

    ha_rooney Full Member

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    I have been debating with you since yesterday and it's clear you don't see religion and western values coexisting and you'd prefer these western values over religion. Maybe 'hate' was too strong but to call it an 'idiotic statement' is strange given what you have said.
  40. Feb 11, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    Still waiting

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