The Guardian: Former Chelsea Youth Team coaches accused of horrific racial attacks

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Raees, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Jan 12, 2018
    #81

    RedTiger Full Member

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    Your entire club isn't racist but your club does have a long history of it.

    What did the calling cards left by the Chelsea headhunters used to say?
  2. Jan 12, 2018
    #82

    Ali Dia Full Member

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    Scumbags!
  3. Jan 12, 2018
    #83

    MrPooni Full Member

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    For reference, here's Chelsea's official response after learning he'd been found guilty of forcing his daughter's 15-year-old friend to have unprotected sex back in 1999:
  4. Jan 12, 2018
    #84

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scouse Lover

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    "You have been nominated and dealt with by the Chelsea headhunters".
  5. Jan 12, 2018
    #85

    Acole9 Outstanding

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    Doesn't surprise me sadly, Graham Rix always come across as a right horrible twat.
  6. Jan 12, 2018
    #86

    RedTiger Full Member

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    I remember in the 80s that the card said "you've been ethnically cleansed by the Chelsea headhunters" whenever it was a non white who was attacked.
  7. Jan 12, 2018
    #87

    RedTiger Full Member

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    Edit: I'm not saying that the current iteration of the club is racist though, I'm just referring to the history that has passed.
  8. Jan 12, 2018
    #88

    red_devil83 Full Member Scouse Lover

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    Tbh that's the only paragraph I actually read. I scanned down to the bottom to get a summary. If you read that in isolation it's pretty funny.
  9. Jan 12, 2018
    #89

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scouse Lover

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    [​IMG]

    Most "firms" had a card they used. This was the Headhunter's one.

    I don't doubt some feckwits made some racist ones as well.
  10. Jan 12, 2018
    #90

    RedTiger Full Member

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    True, all clubs have their bad eggs.

    The calling card message was probably over protectiveness on the part of my Dad, he used to tell me to avoid supporters from Chelsea, Everton, Leeds, Newcastle, West Ham and millwall while I was growing up.
  11. Jan 12, 2018
    #91

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scouse Lover

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    Probably a sensible move!

    I remember avoiding the skinheads handing out the Combat 18 leaflets before games when I was a teenager. Some properly sketchy people around the ground in the early/mid 90s.

    Had an odd experience once at a game where we scored, the surge of fans cause me to be pushed over the edge of a stairwell (there was about a 15 ft drop onto concrete stairs) and some psycho with a spiderweb tattoo across his entire face (and a few racist ones on his arms) saved me by grabbing my arm.
  12. Jan 12, 2018
    #92

    iHicksy Full Member

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    Well, their captain racially abused Anton Ferdinand. They used to sing "Our captain's a racist" chants with great pride and there was that video of their fans pushing/attacking the black dude in paris where they shouted racist abuse at him on the tube which they were prosecuted for. I mean, you don't see this kind of thing with other clubs en masse do you?
  13. Jan 12, 2018
    #93

    The holy trinity 68 The disparager Scouse Lover

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    What is worse is that the guy only served 6 months in prison.
  14. Jan 12, 2018
    #94

    Halftrack Full Member

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    I'd say the SS Totenkopf emblem means that card qualifies as 'racist as all hell, and then some'.
  15. Jan 12, 2018
    #95

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scouse Lover

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    Indeed.
  16. Jan 12, 2018
    #96

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian

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  17. Jan 12, 2018
    #97

    jojojo Moderator

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    I don't think it's really about Chelsea, it's about football attitudes, and probably societal attitudes. Bullying and abuse dressed up as discipline - weeding out the weak ones, toughening up the others - opens the door to some pretty undesirable characters. The dreams of the kids makes them vulnerable to it.

    Some of these things you can't help but suspect were open secrets in football. Even clubs who wouldn't tolerate it, probably kept things quiet, maybe even letting people resign rather than firing them or warning their next club. Certainly that was the case with Bennell and the sexual abuse issue - he worked for multiple clubs and FAs.
  18. Jan 12, 2018
    #98

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian

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    Sounds like they were a bunch of 70s PE teachers.
  19. Jan 12, 2018
    #99

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Why isn't being put in the registry done a permanent basis ? Why only 10 years ?
  20. Jan 12, 2018

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scouse Lover

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    Depends on the severity of the crime (and the sentence given). 10 years is the second longest time to be placed on the register (the longest is life).
  21. Jan 12, 2018

    #07 makes new threads with tweets in the OP

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    Sad yet not surprised.
  22. Jan 13, 2018

    Seagulls.vii New Member

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    Although progress has been made on combating racism, much more can be done.
    The culture has to change and it starts with everyone of us.
    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
  23. Jan 13, 2018

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

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    Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
    These things have been going on for decades under owner's noses and are embedded (somehow) in the game at the highest levels, yet, 'we don't need the Rooney Rule because there's no institutional racism within English football'...

    Hopefully these type of stories help people to understand that we very much do, and that the playing field has been far from level for a very, very long time.
  24. Jan 13, 2018

    11101 Full Member

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    That's true and 'bullying and abuse' by modern standards was certainly rife, you just need to watch the Class of 92 film to see that it was present even in our own club, but racism is a step beyond that. Being honest when you saw it was Chelsea involved here were you all that surprised? I wasn't.
  25. Jan 13, 2018

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert

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    Which is the pressing issue with this for me - as I've probably beaten the drum on too much already - I just do not believe that only the boys partaking in these training sessions knew about this.

    It bothers me because it opens up more questions as to why others that knew, did nothing.

    Even if they were protecting their own careers, they could've covertly blown the whistle, as the English tabloid media would've gobbled up such a scandal for their own ends (sales) especially where someone like Rix, who they'd already ran stories on, was involved.

    From an investigative point of view, that could have opened the doors for the police.
  26. Jan 13, 2018

    Raees Sporty Guy

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    I agree that the culture of racism would have generally been widespread.. you just have to look at the recent debacle in relation to the womens team to see that, but also no doubt in my mind that when going to games at WBA (my local side) that out of all the sides that visited, the only team to this day that I have encountered racial abuse, not once but twice was from Chelsea fans. It wasn't a minority, it was the entire away stand almost in unison (bar the odd exception).. chanting shoe bomber etc and throwing stuff at us. Some of the guys around me lost their shit and shouted stuff back, but the police just stood there doing feck all.

    I will therefore stand by the comment that Chelsea fans have that hardcore scum element in a manner that United do not, whilst all clubs would have had questionable practices in raising young players during 80's/90's, find it hard to believe at clubs like United it would be as bad as that at Chelsea's.
  27. Jan 13, 2018

    Raees Sporty Guy

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    Look, even coming through the professions at my firm I'd argue in some ways it is institutionally racist and you basically have to sacrifice alot of cultural identity to fit in, but I also worked as a football coach for around 8 years and even at a club like WBA, I was one of only 2 asian youth coaches and the culture as you can imagine was very in favour keeping the status quo.. i.e. not based on merit, funding other coaches UEFA licences, giving them the best jobs and drinking/hazing culture etc. There was like zero support and chance of progression. I wouldn't say it was directly racist, but there was a lack of awareness and that at a club which prides itself on the 'three degrees' and its pioneering approach in tackling racism.

    From a players perspective, I found it strange that at many schools - asian kids were a) mad about football b) just as good at football at early youth level pre puberty - arguably technically the best after afro-carribean in my experience c) barely represented post age of 14. Now you can put that down to diet, genetics, culture but I'm sure we could have produced an asian Juan Mata by now in a more supportive environment.
  28. Jan 13, 2018

    Hullyback Full Member

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    Geez, that's absolutely horrific. It's almost beyond belief shit like that happens in the modern world but sadly it's all to easy to believe when you've been around men from the "old school". The people involved with it want locking up if they aren't already. I didn't know Rix had actually been reinstated, I remember clearly when it all came out about him and stupidly assumed once he'd been sent down he'd never work in football or around minors again.

    I just hope as time goes by these dinosaurs and bigots die off. Can't imagine how degraded and belittled them black lads must have felt having wrinkly old cavemen speaking to them like dirt. The kid that held back from lashing out deserves a medal, cos I know damn well in the same situation I'd have done some damage to the guy, age difference or not, and he'd have been completely justified to have done the same.
  29. Jan 13, 2018

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert

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    I think it'd be foolhardy to not believe every club has its issues with racism, but the extent to which it is tolerated by others and the depth of the dogma itself is where clubs branch off and the more notorious earned their name over decades of disgusting behaviour or turning a blind eye to it as an institution. I think the forum could name the clubs with notoriety almost conclusively - I mentioned a few on the first page where this sort of stuff wouldn't be a surprise if stories came out about similar things happening there, and more clubs have been added since, because the problem has been endemic and swept under the rug for longer than I've been alive, and I'm not young.

    Hazing, and the levels it stooped to in the past, was an endemic practice in the 80's and the earlier portion of the 90's, but since supposed societal changes and awareness has come along, these things, for the most part, were supposed to have ceased, or been driven a lot further underground than they were. You'd think the last bastions of notoriety would remain more steadfast, but even they would be forced to change, eventually.

    When clubs like Chelsea are mentioned in modern parlance, I think there's an immediate divide amongst posters who remember the old, or whole, Chelsea, and those who are younger and only really know the new(er), cosmopolitan Chelsea who have come a long way from the darkest depths of their past.

    I try to give them the benefit of the doubt and not let the older iteration cloud my mind, but there's always going to be a part of me that wonders if an element so enmeshed in a club like that can ever truly be eradicated.
  30. Jan 13, 2018

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert

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    These dinosaurs have kids and social circles who share their beliefs - the problem doesn't die with them - they're just replaced with the next generation down who have had the same ideologies drummed into them.

    Go into any racial thread on here, the last being that blackface abortion, and you will see that society is rife with like-minded individuals and a lot of them aren't even out of their 20's yet and will very probably go on to become managers who determine career paths for others, some of whom they are racially at odds with.

    Institutional racism doesn't die - it has to be infiltrated and broken down bit by bit, but you can then ask yourself why would an institution who gains from the status quo want any such thing to happen, and then we see the inert picture.

    At the least, surface matters and putting the best P.C. and P.R. out there should be administered to the point where even if those who can still feel the undercurrents/undertones are hard-pressed to prove it because the overt racism of the past has been forcibly put to the sword.
  31. Jan 13, 2018

    jojojo Moderator

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    No, I wasn't so surprised, because I do think some clubs like Chelsea had bigger problems than others. Though as the article comments, those remarks weren't being made when Gullitt was in earshot.

    That said, here's Norman Atkinson, United's manager from the 80s, making the off-air but recorded remark that got him sacked as a TV pundit in 2004. "...he [Desailly] is what is known in some schools as a fecking lazy, thick nigger".

    Some of his ex-players defended him, like Carlton Palmer:
    "I'm black and I'm sitting here and I'm gonna stand up for Big Ron not because he's a friend of mine, I'm standing up for him because I know what he's like as a bloke. If we're going to deal with racism then let's deal with the bigger picture of racism not about a throwaway comment that wasn't meant in that manner."

    As Palmer's comments suggests, Atkinson himself was happy to add black players to his team, so he wasn't the worst around. To me, that sounds as if football and young black footballers saw racist remarks as part of the "growing up" process. In that environment the worst types of bullies can survive that much longer.
  32. Jan 13, 2018

    Alabaster Codify7 Full Member

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    If this is true, it is absolutely appalling. Perhaps the worst I've heard.
  33. Jan 13, 2018

    CM10 Full Member Santa's Favourite Twats

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    It's really disturbing to think stuff like this was happening as recently as the 90's. Hope both of them get put away for a long time.
  34. Jan 13, 2018

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

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    Two points to address.
    A club/business can’t be accused of being
    institutionally racist on the basis of one individual.
    Their fans have acted in a racist manner but so have other clubs including Utd’s. There was a period when it was very difficult to go to any games being a person of colour.
    ‘ you don’t see this at other clubs en made.’ I beg to differ. Eastern Europe is nortorious for racist chanting ‘en masse,’ without any action by the authorities.Chelsea fans were convicted as you say.They also have a large following among ethnic minority groups as do Utd.
    They can’t be indicted for stupid actions
    One last point: arguably our greatest goalie was involved in an unsavoury incident involving Ian Wright a few years back. A racist comment was ‘ heard’ by many Utd fans. No action was taken but Wright was upset. He acted in a dignified manner and moved on. If we are to point to the likes of the deplorable Terry then we need to look close to home too. Are we so perfect?
  35. Jan 13, 2018

    cyberman Full Member Scouse Lover

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    Shows how far the world has come when a rapist child molester had his job waiting for him when he got out complete with glowing references from the club.
    Im as angry reading that.