The Irish Border

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Adebesi, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Nov 10, 2017
    #1

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    Does anyone have even the faintest idea how this problem can possibly be resolved?

    I mean, setting aside the politics of it, working on the assumption that both sides actually want to solve the issue and are willing to make sensible compromises. Has anyone actually seen any proposals that have even a kernel of something workable at the heart of them? Have any of the more thoughtful Brexiters put forward anything more substantive than "we should use clever technological solutions"?

    Because I assume someone must have. But I havent seen it if they have. And it seems to me what Barnier says is right, that it might be that the only way of doing it is to have Northern Ireland remain inside the customs union, and have a border between Northern Ireland and Britain.

    But Im no expert in this area, I just find it really interesting and very worrying. If anyone has any bright ideas on this, or has heard any, I would love to hear them.
  2. Nov 10, 2017
    #2

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Good idea for a thread. The Tory government’s steadfast refusal to even attempt to come up with a solution for the problem they have created for their own citizens (the majority of whom voted Remain) nearly a year and a half after the referendum is an absolute disgrace.

    I guess they're just lucky they've turned out to be such useless cnuts in every other aspect of managing this transition that this has ended up buried in the general "They Don't Know What They're Doing!" background noise.
  3. Nov 10, 2017
    #3

    cyberman Full Member

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    The idea seems to be customs at ports etc that regulates what comes and goes rather than a hard border. Even then the Unionists will fight against that.
    Its a cluster feck, a hard border and the inability to apply for an EU /Irish passport takes away 90 percent of the Republicans side of the agreement.
  4. Nov 10, 2017
    #4

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    How does that work with no inland border checks.? Additional inconvenience to every EU vessel arriving at ports in Eire? They can feck off if that’s what they want.

    Mind-blowing the way the predominant strategy for dealing with all of this shit is ignoring it and hoping it goes away. Grown adults with the nous and strategic thinking of toddlers.
  5. Nov 10, 2017
    #5

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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    Build a wall.
  6. Nov 10, 2017
    #6

    Dan Aka Lumines

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    And make the Republic pay for it.
  7. Nov 10, 2017
    #7

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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  8. Nov 10, 2017
    #8

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    A solution that's been ruled out by the gobshite in charge of negotiations.
    He's very good at shooting down suggestions made by other people, absolutely fecking clueless when it comes to putting forward some of his own.
  9. Nov 10, 2017
    #9

    Adebesi Full Member

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    I found another possible solution that I guess the Irish on here will already have heard about. Ian Paisley reckons the Republic should follow the UK out of the EU. Sign quick free trade and freedom of movement treaty with the UK, job done. I read 60% of Irish trade is with the UK and "a significant amount" of the remainder is actually with the US.

    Another one that clearly wont come to anything but it does have at least one thing going for it, which is that it is an idea that actually addresses the problem. Rather conveniently leaving all the heavy lifting to other people.

    Just to be clear, I do not mean I advocate this. Its just when ideas are so few and far between you have to give some credit to any idea you do see, no matter how shit it is.
  10. Nov 10, 2017
    #10

    Green_Red Full Member

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    Is there a hard border between Switzerland and France / Germany?
  11. Nov 10, 2017
    #11

    Green_Red Full Member

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    Lol, only a man with that name would advocate following a set of decisions made by a country that regrets making them...
  12. Nov 10, 2017
    #12

    Adebesi Full Member

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    No. Nobody dares suggest it because of the all-powerful Alpine Ski Lobby.
  13. Nov 10, 2017
    #13

    Green_Red Full Member

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    Well if there's no border there why should there be one between Ireland and Northern Ireland?

    All goods nowadays have a country of origin. Use that to decide whether the goods require additional taxes or whatever. It's what the system was invented for... They should stop trying to use an imaginary line as a reason for not working out a deal for Brexit, it makes them look totally stupid. The three bottlenecks could be worked out in a days worth of negotiations. Simple truth is Germany wants London's financial sector and this is their opportunity to get it, that's why the talks are going nowhere.
  14. Nov 10, 2017
    #14

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    The Schengen agreement means no routine passport checks at Swiss borders but there are customs checks (and they reserve the right to check passports too). So yes, there is a hard border.

    Your last sentence is paranoid nonsense.
  15. Nov 10, 2017
    #15

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    I quite like the idea that the culmination of this whole process in which we have "taken back control of our borders" will be that we leave our one land border with the EU open, so any EU national that wants to - or for that matter any immigrant or refugee living in the EU - can simply waltz in without a by-your-leave, by coming via Ireland.

    It would be a fittingly idiotic conclusion to this whole sorry affair.
  16. Nov 10, 2017
    #16

    cyberman Full Member

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    The farming sector would collapse, the single farm payment keeps 99% of farmers afloat. The Irish would rather give up their mothers than leave the EU
  17. Nov 10, 2017
    #17

    Silva enjoys looking at footballers' groins

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  18. Nov 10, 2017
    #18

    devilish Phil Neville's #1 fan

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    Who will suffer the most out of this?
  19. Nov 10, 2017
    #19

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    Doesnt that depend on the solution? Maybe Johnson has some really amazing idea up his sleeve.
  20. Nov 10, 2017
    #20

    devilish Phil Neville's #1 fan

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    lets say there's a hard border. Who will suffer the most Ireland or N Ireland?
  21. Nov 10, 2017
    #21

    spontaneus1 Hamster, damn!

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    Northern Ireland and anywhere along the border here will suffer massively.
  22. Nov 10, 2017
    #22

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    Yeah, again Im no expert but my guess would be Northern Ireland, especially with the political cost.
  23. Nov 10, 2017
    #23

    Silva enjoys looking at footballers' groins

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    NI is smaller, financially dependent on the UK and will have to deal with the obvious separatists issues.
  24. Nov 10, 2017
    #24

    devilish Phil Neville's #1 fan

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    If its going to be that bad than maybe its time for N Ireland to contemplate joining Ireland and avoid the misery. Meanwhile I hope Ireland will get plenty of EU help. It would be pretty unfair to let them hang them up to dry.
  25. Nov 10, 2017
    #25

    jackofalltrades Full Member

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    Unless you're referring to a long standing plot this is exactly what was predicted by some anti-Brexiters, such as Anatole Kaletsky. "Opportunity" revolutions, "opportunity" capitalisim, it's part of the ways of the world. Of course they will want to take as much as possible, just as many cities were vying for the European Medicines Agency (?) now moving from London to either Bratislava or Milan.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  26. Nov 10, 2017
    #26

    devilish Phil Neville's #1 fan

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    The funny thing is that the DUP has the power to dig the UK out of this mess. All they have to do is to switch allegiance to labour if they promise to keep the UK in the single market. The Tory governmentwill then fall, a grand coalition between lib dem, labour, SNP and DUP will replace it and there wont be any Ireland issue anymore
  27. Nov 10, 2017
    #27

    Silva enjoys looking at footballers' groins

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    There won't be grand coalition. If the DUP vote no confidence against May it's going to be another election.
  28. Nov 10, 2017
    #28

    devilish Phil Neville's #1 fan

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    That makes things slightly more complicated but still achievable. There is no way that these clowns can win a GE again
  29. Nov 10, 2017
    #29

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls

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    Yes, there is a hard border. There is also borders between France, Spain and Italy. Sometimes the customs checks, sometimes they don't, it's at their discretion.
  30. Nov 10, 2017
    #30

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    I'm not sure where on earth you're getting that 60% figure from but it's simply not true. We trade far more with the EU26 than the UK.

    Still our biggest trading partner, mind, and we need to find a way to replace them.

    Also us forming a coalition with the UK over the EU would be bonkers for us. There is no better pro-EU example than Ireland. From one of the poorest countries in Europe to one of the richest in the world in 30 years.
  31. Nov 10, 2017
    #31

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    As of July the UK was Ireland's third biggest trading partner in terms of two-way goods and services. The rest of the EU accounts for nearly twice as much as the UK and the US is in second.
  32. Nov 10, 2017
    #32

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    I doubt whatever happens economically to Northern Ireland over Brexit will make the Unionists want to become a part of Ireland.
  33. Nov 10, 2017
    #33

    Rams extremely handsome, intelligent, gay and talented

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    Invade the rest of Ireland, problem solved.
  34. Nov 10, 2017
    #34

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    Brexit was a caper. It will run on for a while yet. A decent percent of those registered to vote in the UK still would vote that way: if they re ran the referendum today it would still be on s knife edge. But it’s a constituency fed by a reactionary press, full of paranoia, xenophobia, and deluded notions of another era. When the inevitable economic hurt sets in, it may be too late.

    The voters of Ireland, North or South, didn’t ask for this. It’s a great irony that the DUP drew down big sums (from where?) to fund Brexit propaganda, but the NI voters firmly reflected it. Ultimately Brexit is doomed. It’s will shatter the Tories, and many others, the only question is how great will be the collateral damage.
  35. Nov 10, 2017
    #35

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    We watched the NI game in our local and cheered them on. There was a guy there from the North supporting them. When a new arrival started a bit of slagging he was shushed “we have guests”. There is hope for Ireland yet
  36. Nov 10, 2017
    #36

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    It was in an article in The Express. Hardly surprising if it's wrong.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/870824/brexit-dup-ireland-border-ian-paisley-leo-varadkar
  37. Nov 11, 2017
    #37

    Green_Red Full Member

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    Ok, using the word German was excessive (I tend to use the description interchangeably), but definitely Europe will be happy that the large financial institutions in London are moving to mainland Europe. To think that isn't part of Europe's strategy would be naive.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  38. Nov 11, 2017
    #38

    utdalltheway Sexy Beast

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    Wasn't there a hard border years ago?
    Or was that mostly down to the security issue?
    What's it like for bringing goods back and forth these days- no customs checks?
  39. Nov 11, 2017
    #39

    Billy Blaggs No mates but his cousins love him

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    I might be being ignorant but why would the Irish want a border? They're on an island already. Surely more open borders would help.

    Please advise me as I'm clueless to this.
  40. Nov 11, 2017
    #40

    Green_Red Full Member

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    Ok, I don't know if you're from Ireland or not but our idea of a 'hard border' is British Army soldiers leading your car into a small section, surrounding your car, checking under the vehicle with mirrors, searching car booths / trunks, all whilst there are kahki clad soldiers holding massive machine guns standing all around the border. More akin to what you would see in Gaza nowadays. That type of border can't return. A hut with a bloke who randomly pulls in trucks to check whats in the containers, I don't think that would be a massive issue. A border were everyone is treated suspiciously would be step in the wrong direction, cameras etc. as May suggested, would not be accepted and would become a flashpoint.