Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Livewire1974, Aug 27, 2018.
Pogba and Martial
Mourinho came to Chelsea from Porto as the UCL winner, Europa winner, 2 times League winner. SAF came from Aberdeen with 12 trophies including European trophies. Guardiola and Zidane are special cases and were at clubs whose bench makes most teams first XI.
Re definition of a big club (I didn't use that term but I will say that): Monaco is below both clubs you mentioned and all are below United.
Klopp is playing competitive football but has failed on every occasion at the final hurdle. Sarri has been in the Premier League 2-3 months. I'll have him finish the year before judging his success.
Jardim's CV is ok a lot better than many other "candidates". I'm not convinced. I think that Jardim has had good teams at Monaco and good players even if these players were not expensive. He did have to rebuild teams which speaks well for him but obviously he has his limits 2014-2018 (3.5 years).
Jardim would be a huge gamble. Can he handle the expectation of United, the press, the constant scrutiny, the superstars? He hasn't dealt with it before.
If he leaves Monaco it would be because he failed. Is the board solely to blame for his team performances this year?
I believe that should Mourinho implode, we need to get a plan in place, get a really good and proven manager that is in sync with this plan and players capable of executing said plan. According to Ed, we are rich so let's adopt the Madrid/Barcelona attitude and be ruthless. Take the manager (who is willing, of course) that we want even if we have to buy out a contract. Stop limiting yourself to who is available.
United have had 2(maybe soon 3) managerial failures post SAF. We can't afford another one at this moment and when we go for a relatively untried manager (at this level) then we are courting failure.
Just my thoughts
I think it would be naive to think he shouldn't take any blame but there does also come a point where a manager can't take the team forward any more, which I think was the case at Dortmund with Klopp.
You talk about gambles and we need to essentially play it safe but LVG and Mourinho were the most obvious and safe candidates but neither have done great.
I think he should stay until at least Christmas and see where we are. The Newcastle game could turn this season around, a positive result against Chelsea and who knows because after Chelsea have got Everton at home then Bournemouth away, in between home and away ties against Juventus, so wouldn’t give up just yet.
Glass half full
I'd say that we have risked with Moyes, played it safe with van Gaal then tried to undo it all with Mourinho (maybe a safe option).
I am all for a calculated risk ..... after having a plan in place. We need a plan probably more than we need a new manager.
Probably right with Moyes though depending on who you believe, it was because the bigger names were unavailable, so we were forced to do so.
We do need a bigger plan, but as of right now there is not structure in place for a DoF or Sporting Director and we can't even be sure there will be.
After surviving last weekends supposed cull I’m resigned to him staying till the end of the season or at least until 4th place is mathematically unattainable. City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs are all ahead of us barring a Devon Loch style flop so it’s only a matter of time. It’s going to be a long season...........
I can see Mourinho surviving the entire season, then the boot. I can see a trophyless season, with Top4 options until late April, with two victories, then a hideous draw, then a victory, then a sad defeat, then a victory, then another victory, then a draw, repeat until May.
In other words: a life-support season.
While we waste a year of our players careers, and a year of our own lives, already knowing this season isn’t going anywhere. It’s so ridiculous.
I genuinely thought that during pre season
You've obviously had one to many.
Ive read Perez wants him back...
Both posts speak so much sense it hurts to imagine the possibilities of both scenarios happening if Mourinho leaves. It relies on the hope that Utd will finally get a good coach and the hope that we will get our club in order with a defined strategy. Too many false dawns
It’s possible to 6 points in league out of Everton and Bournemouth, would expect least 4 points?
You never know with Chelsea and juventus ( especially at OT )
Seeing as he is staying for now, I am quite nervous and excited about the upcoming fixtures. If he gets through the next 6 fixtures (PL and CL) with 14-15 points, he will have done reasonably well to warrant a stay of execution till the summer atleast and I will back him for sure. But if he gets less than that, we will need to sack him to save our season.
It really is crunch time. Let's see what he's got.
Please be true!! Just to see them crumble alone would give me satisfaction! Isco turning into a work horse lol.
This. If United were winning a lot of games 3-1 and 4-2 and winning trophies simply by adopting an attack is the best form of defence attitude, no one would be complaining on here.
The question makes no sense because that's not how the world works. He'll be fired if top 4 becomes impossible. It's like making a poll on whether we should sign Messi. If you live in a fantasy land it's possible but it's not gonna happen.
Had we lost at home to one of the poorest Newcastle sides in recent memory (of which there was every possibility given the 0-2 half-time deficit) Jose would have been in serious trouble. But for the miraculous comeback that occurred in the second half, he very likely would have been sacked.
Not if we are 15th by Xmas.
Go. Simples! I'm a fan of ending toxic relationships early. What's the point if it's clearly not working and there's no future? We're the biggest club in the world. Fecking act like it. Decide who you want and go get him. Pay off his employers if you have to. Whats all that money for? Personally I'd have Jardim now if he agrees to be interim manager. Check him out and make him permanent if we like what we see. Work on an alternative in the meantime and move on him if Jardim can't hack it. The future could be bright if we use this season wisely to reset.
Why are people talking about making Jardim interim coach. Why do you think he ll sign up for that? Unless he is not getting any offers
Interim manager of United might be the best offer he could get right now. Especially with the chance of becoming permanent if he does well. There's no vacancy at any comparable club in the world. Surely Jardim would value the promotion?
How about we don't hire a short term option based on the flavour of the month? If the board can't identify a long term option, then they're the ones at fault. There is no quick fix.
Well both Bayern and Real job options might open up soon for him considering the managers at those clubs ard not in a good position . Jardim as interim manager will be an interesting option for them too .
I don't think Jardim will get the Real job. Perez did go for outlandish options like Poch and Lopetegui this summer, maybe after seeing Zidane's success. But after Lopetegui's failure, I think he would prefer a coach with big club experience to minimize risks. Quite possibly Jose if he is sacked, or even Conte.
But Bayern would probably be more willing to hire Jardim. I have no clue about us, can't really guess what type of manager we will look for. Ed works in mysterious ways.
I don't think Real will go for Conte because of Conte's history of always having a tiff with the board of the clubs he has managed and it will firmly play on Perez's mind . Perez will want a yes guy and not someone with whom he will have an issue later .
Actually the reason I feel Real might go for Jardim is because he has a good experience of merging youth players with experienced ones from his time in Monaco and with players like Ascensio, Odriozola ,Cellabos and Vinicius Junior in the squad it might work out well . Also Jardim's tactics are good and quite attacking which will please Perez .
I personally feel Zidane might sign for Bayern if Kovac is fired for same reason as Guardiola . They have a stable team and management with less competition in the league . Also I read somewhere that Zidane has done some coaching practice at Bayern before but I am not sure about it .
About who we will sign well even I am not sure what Woodward is thinking . Considering his experience only Zidane seems the possible option but Zidane doesn't seem interested in managing us so I have this bad feeling that Woodward will keep supporting Jose for some more time.
There's definitely a form of manager "elitism" that surrounds this club and the fans and I genuinely have no idea where it's come from, the notion that you must of managed a big team, have won a considerable amount of trophies etc to even be considered is nonsense when you consider the like of Bayern Munich and other big teams don't always take these things into consideration when hiring a new manager, you need to look beyond this, I understand people are haunted by Moyes but i feel like half the reason Eddie Howe doesn't appeal to most is because he isn't a big flashy name. That being said i would take Pochettino in a heart beat, as would, I suspect, Real Madrid, yes he's won nothing but what he's done with Southampton and now Tottenham shows me he's deserving of a chance to take the last step up.
I think it’s because they just want another Sir Alex, even though there are no managers of that level or even type out there now. He’s a once in generations figure and with the way football management has evolved, will be very hard to find someone like that again.
Those fans are typically the ones who dismiss the whole DoF with first team head coach as stupid and unnecessary, and that we should let one man control every aspect of the onfield stuff. I admittedly thought like that years ago but after Moyes and LVG, I’ve come to the conclusion that we aren’t going to find another Sir Alex and we’re just going to have to modernise the club with that DoF system that all the current best clubs seem to employ..because who else can name a good team where one man oversees everything.
All the best teams at the moment have a system like that in place, where a group of guys can determine playing style, player transfers and whatnot, then find a head coach who fits those philosophies well... hopefully he’s one of the better ones who can win more games and undoubtedly there would be some risks that don’t pay off, but we can then get rid of them quickly and have a replacement in with no real fuss.
At Utd, if we sack the manager everyone seems to think “Well that’s season over. Mid table is the best we can hope for” and on one hand you’re probably right because we have such an archaic way of working but on the other hand it could turn out for the better. Remember when Chelsea binned off the best manager they ever had in 2007 and had Avram Grant in? Boy what a bad season they had after they got rid of that guy. A penalty kick away from being European champions and a bad Utd league result away from being league champions.
People need to understand that Sir Alexs dont grow on trees and we don’t just find them willy nilly, as well as football has moved on from those days. Sir Alex and Wenger were the last of their kind. Jose is probably the closest thing but even he needs to be reigned in somewhat because of his abrasive nature after a while. I think you need to follow the leads of the likes of Bayern, Juve, Real and Barca where they have clear philosophies in place, and have a system in place where they can afford to take gambles on head coaches.
If Eddie Howe was placed in the current Utd role and was ‘manager’, I’m pretty sure he would struggle and it would be Moyes all over again. However I’d give him a better chance of doing well if we had a DoF structure and Howe was ‘first team head coach’.
Wasn't Mourinho and Woodward supposed to meet today, or is it tommorrow?
I’ve just created a post on the newbie thread about the exact same thing. I thought it was today but it’s all very quiet from the press. Hopefully it’s the quiet before the storm and mourinho is a gonner
Yes my bad, I don't know why I thought that was Old Trafford security lol
I read that the mirror have said today, been scrolling t'internet but nothing new
Yeah same, so I just decide to stop there and lets others posters fill in the blanks.
A good half performance and the international break has proven to be a breather for Mourinho. And here we thought it was a good time to make changes.
It's because most fans of this club are not used to being just another club when it comes to managers. You see it when people say Ed should be sacked if our next manager doesn't do well or when people talk about managers seemingly needing to guy a squad and buy their own players to make a team improve and plenty of other weird manager myths around here.
Managers come and go at all clubs, some often fail and are chopped and the clubs get on with it. Very rarely do we hear a CEO should be sacked for a manager not doing well. Perez wasn't told to sling his hook after hiring Rafa, etc.
It’s like how it was in the last couple seasons of Wenger. The pressure on him would be building up immensely, and just when you think that it’s going to reach a breaking point, he pulls a win out of the bag. That half and this international break have given Mourinho an undeserved stay of execution.
This is very true, I really don’t get it. You have to look at their body of work and what they are doing right now. Jose has a great list of achievements but he isn’t really cutting it, LVG had that as well, it’s not a certainty that they are the best thing for the club.
I look at Pochetinho and what he achieved with Southampton and what he has done with Spurs and think he has been punching with both whilst effectively showning up to a gun fight with a set of kitchen knives and competing when it comes to Spurs. Would love to see what he could do here with guys like Pogba,Martial, DeGea and so on. Could he finally sort out the defence and the balance issues we have throughout the team.
He’d be my first choice.
I think this is possible. He'd only quit if he has a bigger job lined up.
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