The Pep Effect: No more room for youth development

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by andersj, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. Feb 3, 2018
    #1

    andersj Nick Powell Expert

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    Due to increased spending, and consequently a higher level, its been a trend that it is getting more difficult to introduce young, unproven players in the PL. However, there has always been room for a couple of squad players from the acadamy.

    Pep comments about lack of «top players» consequently took me by surprise, and it feels like we are about to turn a corner. A manager possessing 17-18 players that costed them more than €25m each complains about the lack of high-quality players! The players who costs less was either bosman or players who was purchased several years ago, and are proven quality players today. The City-squad is by a great margin the most expensive one in the world!

    Furthermore City has spent a lot of money on their acadamy. This did not stop Pep from trying to make some sort of point today, and only naming six players on the bench. In my opinion this is an unacceptable, disappointing and childish approach from Pep. Why on earth did he not give it to one of the acadamy players?

    When a manager starts throwing around oil money to acquire 22 «top players» it will be increasingly difficult for Conte, Mourinho to not do the same. The top clubs in the PL is not creating a good environment for player development, and Pep is probably the worst the PL has had in this regard.

    In the past I have not been in favour of rules and regulations that lowers the bar for acadamy products, but considering the approach of «state backed» clubs like City it might be needed.
  2. Feb 3, 2018
    #2

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    Send them out on loan so that they can prove themselves then get them back and play then, hardly rocket science. In this new era of elite football where the margins have been slimmer and slimmer it is true that risking seasons on unproven players is difficult however there are lots of other clubs in the league who'd love to have that sort of talent in their ranks and would play them. Thus by the time the players come back they'll be ready at this level and you can also see what they can produce at the top level. Fosu Mensah, RLC, Ake last season, through their loans you could see what they are made of.
  3. Feb 3, 2018
    #3

    FC Ronaldo Posts stuff that's been said before in tweet form

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    He named 6 on the bench because their U23 team played last night so didn’t want players potentially playing twice in 24 hours. Fair enough on that narrative.

    Squad should be deep enough to avoid that however.

    General point is perfectly logical.
  4. Feb 3, 2018
    #4

    Hoof The Ball Full Member

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    I could have sworn at LEAST ten people, mostly City fans, stated that the youth players played only yesterday.
  5. Feb 3, 2018
    #5

    Mach4 New Member

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    I think you're reaching here. Seven substitutes aren't needed per game so I don't see the harm that has been done. I don't support the notion that players undeserving of a place on the team have to be named. The team is chosen at the manager's discretion.
  6. Feb 3, 2018
    #6

    MrPooni Full Member

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    To quote Gary Neville today:
    This whole debacle has me in stitches given one of the main arguments on here on why Pep would be better for us than Mourinho was his penchant for trusting youth players over the "the monster who kills little kids." Now we're in a situation where Mourinho is trusting one of our academy players over the most expensive signing in our club's history and Pep is openly throwing his toys out of the pram because he missed out on a couple of £60 million signings.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  7. Feb 3, 2018
    #7

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    This should be called the Mourinho Effect as it was Jose and Chelsea that really pioneered the spend lots of money now forget youth approach not Pep.
  8. Feb 3, 2018
    #8

    Kasper Full Member

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    "The Pep Effect":lol: Jesus, I normally hat the phrase "turning into RAWK" but some really weird obsessions have been developed on here recently.
  9. Feb 3, 2018
    #9

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    No.

    Top clubs shouldn't be allowed to "outsource" player development to other clubs in the pyramid.

    I would scrap the loan system, or restrict it's usage to temporary severe incidents (a freak injury crisis for example). Otherwise, clubs should have only 2 choices:

    1. Give chances to younger prospects. Take the hit now, and benefit later.
    2. Neglect youth development. Pay out the ass for fully developed players.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  10. Feb 3, 2018
    #10

    NinjaZombie Punched the air when Liverpool beat City

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    Gary Neville had a moan about this. I'd sooner trust Guardiola's managerial decisions than his, to be honest.
  11. Feb 3, 2018
    #11

    salford_ Banned

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    thought it was sheer arrogant to name 6 subs today
  12. Feb 3, 2018
    #12

    FlawlessThaw most 'know it all' poster

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    It’s a deserved moan to be honest. Pep did it to send a message about lack of resources which considering the investment City put in their youth teams and infrastructure, is ridiculous.

    Doesn’t stop Guardiola being considered the best manager ever or whatever. Just a lame thing to do.
  13. Feb 3, 2018
    #13

    K2K Full Member

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    "Can Manchester United score? They always score"
    That's just stupid.

    Heck. Blackburn were spending years before that if you care to actually look back without an agenda.

    And this thread is equally stupid. Pep has shown that he can bring young players through too. One stint doesn't change that.
  14. Feb 3, 2018
    #14

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    Blackburn spending was not the same level as the billion Roman spent. Roman and Jose accelerated that to a whole new level. Sure there have always been sugar daddies, from the Italian owners all the way back to Bank of England Henry Norris at Arsenal. But Roman took things to an entirely different level and Mourinh's entire management career has been built on outspending rivals to buy established players for his teams not developing youth. That's just a fact.
  15. Feb 3, 2018
    #15

    AR87 Full Member

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    Yeah, that's definitely how he won the CL at Porto and Inter. Good call.
  16. Feb 3, 2018
    #16

    K2K Full Member

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    "Can Manchester United score? They always score"
    It's funny that he won the UCL with two teams that hardly outspent their rivals in Europe.

    But we can conveniently ignore that one right.
  17. Feb 3, 2018
    #17

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    Porto CL run beenfited from probably the luckiest match-ups of the entire CL era. They avoided all the best teams in Europe that year. Plus in the Portuguese league Porto are the financial giants.

    And he joined Inter when they were the undisputed top dogs of Italy. Milan had fallen off and begun their descent while Juventus had been relegated. Sure his win over Barcelona with Inter is easily the most impressive win of his career but put into context his achievements at Inter are not as impressive as it seems in hindsight with Juventus being top again and the memories of mid 80s to mid 2000s Milan.

    Also @K2K you should go look at the wages for that 2010 Inter team, they spent huge amounts of money.

    For example:
    in summer 2009 Mourninho bought Diego Milito for €28M, Thiago Motta for €10M, Lucio for €8M, Eto'o for €20M and Sneijder for €18M

    All key players for Inter's CL win. All bought for healthy prices.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  18. Feb 3, 2018
    #18

    AR87 Full Member

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    He sold his best player at Inter to fund his transfer dealings, including fleecing Barcelona for cash and Eto'o. They had zero success in Europe before him and have had no success of any kind since he left.

    At Porto, yes he was the financial giant in Portugal, but he won in Europe against teams with far more financial resources than him. They avoided the top dogs but beat everbody put in front of them. Same can't be said for the top clubs that year.
  19. Feb 3, 2018
    #19

    gibers Full Member

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    Another Pep/City thread. FFS.

    Who GAS?! We are staring to become like RAWK!
  20. Feb 3, 2018
    #20

    Sly Hang Ten Scout

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    I must have wrote this about a thousand times in this forum. When Mourinho got to Porto, the club was in crisis and they weren't dominating. They had big financial limitations and the bulk of his purchases were out of contract players from Benfica B and bargains from União de Leiria and Vitória de Setúbal. Regardless of having luck in the draws, winning consecutive european football competitions and specially the CL were great achievements. Neither Porto or Inter came close to winning it again and they had managers with even higher budgets. For me it's far more impressive than winning at Barcelona.
  21. Feb 3, 2018
    #21

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    That's not relevant to the point. The point is he BOUGHT the key players for Inter's success he did not develop them or make use of what he already had. I never said he can't build/buy a good team. He does tend to buy well for his system. But my point is he buys all the key players for his teams ready made rather than developing them.

    Monaco, Coruna and Lyon did not have more financial resources than Porto. Maybe Lyon did at the time but not by much. They only faced one club that year that was clearly bigger with more resources - United. Personally I rate Benitez win over Milan with Liverpool as more impressive than Mourinho's win with Porto but I can understand that not being popular opinion here ;)
  22. Feb 3, 2018
    #22

    Sly Hang Ten Scout

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    Wrong. You cant analyze those days by the past domination by Porto. When Mourinho got to Porto even Boavista was arguably in better shape. You don't know the specifics of portuguese football in that time. Nothing wrong with that since it's not a glamorous league but you lack the knowledge about Mourinho's work at Porto regarding the circunstancies.
  23. Feb 3, 2018
    #23

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    You are getting off point a little bit in regards to this thread. My original point was Mourinho buys his teams he doesn't develop them.

    And for the record I find Hitzfeld's CL wins with Dortmund in 97 and Bayern in 01 to be far more impressive than Mourinho's two wins (and Mourinho is far, far more hyped in the media than Hitzfeld ever was). I find Wenger's achievement of the Invincibles far more impressive than anything Mourinho did with spending hundreds of millions of shady money. Benitez Champions league win was more of an underdog win than either of Mourinho's and his CL record with Liverpool more impressive than Mourinho with Chelsea and Zidane's tenure at RM more impressive than Mourinho's there.
  24. Feb 3, 2018
    #24

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    Oh so you are an expert on the finances of Coruna and Monaco? lets stop the stupid posturing and just look up the facts first before going any further.

    What was the squad cost and wages of Porto in 2004 compared to Lyon, Monaco and Coruna?

    I'm done responding until after Arsenal match so you can look it up or wait
  25. Feb 3, 2018
    #25

    Sly Hang Ten Scout

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    You can develop teams by buying bargains and dramatically changing the lineup and culture of the the team. And i was correcting you because you were wrong. That was my point. Rest of your post is a matter of opinion and not gospel. Same thing regarding my post about Mourinho's CL wins and Guardiola's. Rest is factual since i've been following portuguese football for three decades now.
  26. Feb 3, 2018
    #26

    ShadesOfTomato Full Member

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    This thread is salty as feck. They're 13 points clear, things like this are irrelevant.
  27. Feb 3, 2018
    #27

    MrPooni Full Member

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    So far you've wilfully misrepresented both Inter and Porto's positions when Mourinho took over and now you're trying to discredit his opponents. Lyon were in the midst of their record breaking 7 title streak when Porto faced them and had the likes of Mahamadou Diarra, Michael Essien, Florent Malouda and Sidney Govou in their squad at the time. It's painfully obvious you have an agenda here mate and no amount of winking emojis will make your silly arguments more palatable.
  28. Feb 3, 2018
    #28

    KM I’m afraid I just blue myself Staff

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    It's really, really shocking that an Arsenal fan doesn't rate Mourinho.
  29. Feb 3, 2018
    #29

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    It is no surprise that the top clubs are not consistently playing youth players the worrying thing is that other teams in the league aren't either.
  30. Feb 3, 2018
    #30

    Sly Hang Ten Scout

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    I'm more expert than you regarding what you factually wrote wrong about Mourinho's Porto work. And a word of advice, go easy on some terms ok? It's not posture and i'm not arguing with you, just merely correcting some details. Relax and go enjoy Arsenal.
  31. Feb 3, 2018
    #31

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    That, and Guardiola has outspent Jose since the beginning of his career...
  32. Feb 3, 2018
    #32

    MrPooni Full Member

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    Despite competing in less campaigns than him too. And to get back on topic, it's worth noting City doled out 67 squad numbers to players this season – are people seriously trying to argue Pep couldn't find a 7th sub amongst them?
  33. Feb 3, 2018
    #33

    cyberman Full Member

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    I don't understand whats salty about this thread? Are you only expected to develop youth when you're behind in a title race or underperforming as a team?
    I also notice a lot of excuses when it's Pep in the firing line, it was the end of the world when Jose was under the microscope.
    Or are we going to pretend that it wasn't such a hot topic that Jose felt compelled to bring a list of youth players to a press conference?
  34. Feb 3, 2018
    #34

    SirAF Ageist

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    Surley, they didn’t play ALL the reserve players? Could still have brought one kid just for the sake of him getting the experience.
  35. Feb 3, 2018
    #35

    hn4manunited Full Member

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    Thanks for posting this again! Posting it a million times wouldn’t be too many times. Normal people usually need to hear something between 1-7 times to retain but folks on here don’t ever get it.
  36. Feb 3, 2018
    #36

    spiriticon Full Member

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    I have to say, Mourinho has been giving a lot more chances to youth players than Pep has. Phil Foden really should be a regular squad player by now, considering he was the best player at the U17 World Cup. But I've only seen him once or twice.
  37. Feb 3, 2018
    #37

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    You might be right but you still haven't proven it. You just declared Porto was not in a great state. That doesn't prove they had substantially less resources than Coruna and Monaco at the time.

    If we look at the squads of all three teams they all had fairly equivalent squads. Porto was not some massive underdog to Coruna, Lyon and Monaco. They had Baia, Maniche, Deco, Derlei, Ricardo Carvalho and Conceicao. That Porto side was just as stacked with good players as Lyon, Monaco and Coruna even if you are right that they actually cost less at the time.

    And you were the one that brought up your opinion of how you rate Mourinho's win "far, far more" than winning with Barca so its a bit silly of you to then start criticizing my take as "just opinion and not gospel" when you were the one stating your opinion mixed in with facts as well.

    Don't mix in your opinion with facts then try make a big deal about someone else stating their opinion.

    I haven't willfully misrepresented anything.

    Porto beat Monaco, Lyon and Coruna on their CL run. All of those sides were the same level. Porto was not some underdog in those matches.

    Mourinho DID buy his squad at Inter that went on to win the CL.
    Inter WAS in the middle of their most dominant period since the 60s.
    Inter was unchallenged because Milan had fallen off, Juventus had been relegated and Moratti was willing to lose tens - hundreds of millions to fund that Inter side. It was an extremely expensive side. That is just fact.

    And my original point was Mourinho was the one who pioneered the spend hundreds of millions to buy a squad not develop one approach at Chelsea. Which is true.

    I never said I "don't rate Mourinho".

    But if we are being snarky, its also shocking that a few fans of his current side and a Portguese are bending over backwards to attack his critics.
  38. Feb 3, 2018
    #38

    gibers Full Member

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    Probably doesn't help he's got a long term injury...
  39. Feb 3, 2018
    #39

    PieCrust Full Member

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    So bring a kid up and just let him have the experience of sitting the bench with the first team, getting out on the pitch for warm up, take in the atmsophere of being in the match day squad for the first team. He doesn't have to have any intention of playing him, just let him get the experience and maybe a little confidence boost moving forward in his development.
  40. Feb 3, 2018
    #40

    Bubz27 ACMarket employee

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    Just nice that on the day Mourinho dropped our most expensive and one of our most talented players for a youth product, Pep couldn't even put one on the bench for some experience.

    I'm sure any of them that played last night wouldn't have cared one bit about getting on the bench today.

    That said, this isn't a regular occurrence by any means. Its just nice.