Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Yorkeontop, Dec 2, 2017.
So stepping on someones leg is an automatic red?
Didn't know one could be wrong in an opinion on a decision that varies person to person and is subjective to how one sees and views it. Had it been another ref who decided not to give a red, you would be quote on quote, "wrong". Whatever that means but yea just using your words haha
It's a red but sometimes a challenge like that incorrectly gets a yellow. Maybe that's why there is confusion.
And this is exactly the logic the ref used that night
I hope he doesn't get it extended (I doubt he will), I'm looking forward to seeing him play live for the first time in the Bristol City game.
Absolutely gutting but anyone arguing it wasn't a red doesn't understand the rules.
Meh, watching that video again only makes me think it was more harsh.
What the feck is Pogba supposed to do in that situation? Bellerin left his leg in a completely unnatural and unpredictable position, and it was literally the only place Pogba could have planted his foot after putting a toe to the ball, without resulting in a complete loss of balance.
You can’t blame the referee for calling it a red when viewing it in real time, but when looking at it back and using a bit of common sense to analyse what has actually happened in the situation then it’s just a massive case of bad luck.
It should be overturned in my opinion. Nothing about how Pogba went for the ball was dangerous, and if it is you may as well stop players from lifting their feet off the floor!
EDIT: just seen it hasn't been extended, that's good. We're gonna miss the fecker.
There’s no chance getting this overturned in an appeal. Bellerin did some stupid knee bend tackle and it did look a lot worse for Pogba than it was. But the FA will back the ref and it wasn’t clear cut either way. We need to move on and hope we get the best out of Pogba when he returns!
Roll on Herrera for now and pray Matic stays fit.
I think there needs to be a distinction between Pogba "stepping" on Bellerin as opposed to "stamping" on Bellerin. For me, he does the former, and that does not (or should not) constitute a red card.
If only Clattenburg had ref'd this game and deliberately not sent him off to make next week's game more exciting.
It isn't an opinion, it's a matter of fact. Pogba was rightfully sent off for what was appropriately deemed a "reckless challenge". That United chose not to appeal the decision speaks volumes in itself. In truth there is absolutely nothing to appeal, Pogba was caught bang to rights.
That horse is long dead, cease the flogging.
*fixed that for you
Sorry but you're out for lunch here and sounding a tad gibberishy at this point. A subjective ruling/decision is never "fact" and I hope you're able to realize that.
You know you can win a tackle touching the ball second don't you? The more pertinent question is who goes in for a tackle with their knee? He should have been admonished for silly technique endangering himself.
I've never seen anything like it. If he went in with his foot as you are taught to tackle there would be nothing made of this hence why he should shoulder some responsibility. If he had lunged with his head and got stamped then what would you think then? It's almost as daft.
I know it can look bad but to me Pogba was trying to get the ball not the man and does not warrant a red. I just don't see the intent or the dangerous play on Pogba's part.
There is nothing subjective about sending a player off for a reckless challenge, it's mandatory as per the rule book. What part of this is confusing you?
You are encroaching on animal cruelty at this point
The club may not have appealed, but that's probably because we know it won't be overturned anyway.
Too brutal! Nonsense... it was never a red and I'm shocked and disappointed we haven't challenged it. The more I see it, the less of a red it is
Been debating it all day at work, and i'm still not convinced its a red. Looks horrible yes, but i don't think its dangerous.
Pogba is stood upright, hasn't gone to ground, hasn't lunged, foot is no higher than the bottom half of the ball (not over the top), he gets the ball and has no reason to anticipate Bellerin attempting to make a tackle with his knee/calf. Both Pogba's placement of foot are in the natural positions for balance, eyes following the ball and looking to play it, not the man.
If that had been Bellerin's foot he trod on like it should have been, it gets a foul at best. And if what Pogba actually did, not how it looked or the outcome, what he did, the tackle he made, is worthy of a red card, then we should expect a lot of games defaulted this season due to lack of players left on the pitch because that exact tackle happens 10 times a game and nothing happens.
Aside from that though, i think maybe Pogba missing from the city game could be a good thing, his defensive work aint spectacular and Herrera could prove a better choice, providing he turns up.
Exactly. What nailed it for me is that Pogba immediately knew he was in trouble for his stupidity. He goes and starts explaining himself to the player rather than directly going to the referee knowing fully well that this act may serve as a mitigating factor (and it eventually didn't).
The referee had also let Young know in advance that Pogba is seeing red who sprints down to the technical area to let Mourinho know. All this while the card was still in the ref's pocket.
In fact, I would send Bellerin if for trying to tackle like a bellend.
With all due respect clearly you just don't understand some pretty common sense stuff here.
1. You can't differentiate that the decision is subjective and not a fact. This isn't science or physics, there's nothing universal about the decision that makes it fact, or one person wrong/right as again it's a matter of opinion and interpretation which varies person-to-person.
2. Case in point: if a 100 different refs were to rule on that play, there would be more than 1 different oucome as some would give a yellow and some possibly even no card, rather just a foul. This again proves it's subjective and not fact.
...can't believe I just explained that. Anyways I'm done with this and not going to bother with it again. Just because something is subjectively ruled/decided on doesn't make it fact lol.
We were clearly discussing seperate issues.
I take it you were referring to the challenge itself, rather than the red card that followed it. In that case yes, you're right, your assessment of the legality of Pogba's challenge is entirely subjective, as is mine or anyone else for that matter. However once a decision has been met, the appropriate punishment is absolutely mandatory as per the rule book.
I was on the "this is a red card" side until I rewatched it from multiple angles.
He is in full stride until Bellerine goes to ground at which point Pogba's left foot plants to stop his stride while his right foot attempts to flick the ball. The issue is that his follow through on the right lands on Bellerine's leg which he was leaving behind his body. Poor attemp to stop a player. Had Pogba not stepped in his leg the decision would have gone the other way or play would have continued.
The problem is we've had the luxury of replay. It's quite possible the ref feels differently about it as well but we don't hear about those reports.
I hope we're appealing it. Even if it results in an extended ban I think we can deal without Pogba just fine for the matches post City.
Sickening to lose Pogba like that. If you pause it, while his right foot is in the air, crucially BEFORE Bellerin's leg is on the floor, you can see he is aiming to plant his foot nowhere near Bellerin's leg or feet, but while Pogba's foot is in the air, Bellerin inexplicably takes a knee to try and tackle him sort of backwards.
Reminds me of when we outplayed Arsenal in the CL Semi and the only thing they could celebrate was Fletcher's red card, which ended up being a huge loss for us for the Barca game. Hopefully we can overcome the loss of Pogba this time...
It was a tired clumsy challenge rather than deliberate, but it was reckless stretching like that. Pogba needs a rest, so he gets two weeks City/Bournemouth/West Brom games, before the Christmas games, every cloud..etc.
If he'd been available for City they would have targeted him, now who do they target and what will Jose's tactics be, Pep tears up his game plan!
People still can't accept it
This thread has 100% reached RAWK levels, possibly the first thread ive witnessed do such a thing
For all those who still believe Pogba was undeserving of a red card, do tell me why the United hierarchy, with all their experience dealing with such matters, decided against an appeal?
Surely that must convince you that Pogba doesn't have a leg to stand.
100% Red... would have lifted right leg as involuntary reaction if he didnt realize he had made contact..
Also important i think the ref was between yellow/red and offset that with clear Penalty for them on Wellbeck.
Slow motion micro analysis is the bad for the game.
When was the last time you saw a professional player attempt what Bellerin did? What a ridiculous way to try and win the ball!
It defies belief.
Wouldn't surprise me if RAWK, after viewing the content this thread, created their own version of Redcafe goes in to Meltdown.
They didnt appeal because they have the experience to know the FA don't give a feck about the rules, they decide based on the response the public will have.
The Feghouli red card was rescinded even though it was a red by the rules of the game, because there was public outrage over the decision.
We've all accepted it, it's done with and over.
However that doesn't mean we still can't disagree with it. That's like saying people still can't accept the OJ ruling. Not everyone has to nod their head in agreement with the decision made but they'll definitely have to live with it.
Conspiracy theories, really?
This is full-on RAWK mode.
Yes it's amazing to me some posters actually believe that this was not a red card but there are people here just as deluded as the blue moon and rawk mob .I guess every football club has them so a club our size is hardly going to escape
Im not even one of those people that thinks its not a red card, when you get contact like that it will be a red card in the modern game. Its just idiotic to think that the FA are some sort of barometer for what is the correct decision. The club are not so idiotic either to base their decision on what they think the right decision is, they will base their decision off the likelihood of the decision being reversed.
If there was public outrage about this red card, like the Feghouli card (which was clearly worse) then the club would appeal and the decision would be reversed. The FA do not care about what the right decision is.
It's very difficult to accept Pogba won't play in the derby. He is the one City would've struggled to contain. I really wanted to see how City's midfield would cope with him. I hope Mourinho creates a siege mentality and it galvanises the players to perform at their very best. It forces us to change our approach because Pogba is irreplaceable in the team but there must be another way to hurt City. Fellaini will help but I don't think he is the answer. City's midfield will run rings around him if we play him with Matic. Herrera is in bad form right now and he will struggle as well. How do we set up in midfield is a real conundrum? Thank God I'm not making those decisions.
There is no public outrage because the vast majority know deep down that Pogba was fully deserving of his red card. He is lucky he didn't break Belerin's ankle because then there would be public outrage and the club would have bore the brunt of it.
We haven't appealed because we don't have a case with which to base a defensive argument. That's the cold hard truth of it.
Look, I'm just as gutted at losing Pogba as you and everyone else is, but we can't have players getting away with treading (I choose my words carefully here) on an opponents ankle (twice) and near breaking it, what kind of precedent would that set for the rest of the league?
Clearly he's trying to stop Pogba by committing a foul and had Pogba not stamped on him, he'd be getting a yellow or perhaps more (we'd want more) and Pogba would be potentially dealing with a nasty injury.
But the fact is Bellerin didn't foul Pogba. Pogba fouled Bellerin and got sent off for what the referee has seen as studs landing on someone's leg in a dangerous manner.
Anyone saying it can't possibly be a red has extreme bias.
I disagree it was borderline and could of gone either way in terms of card colour.
What a ridiculous way to defend and put your own safety aren't risk it's almost as ludicrous as diving towards the floor to head the ball and getting caught by some studs.
Anybody remember Rooney's leg being gashed open against Fulham, wasn't even given as a foul or Luke Shaw's leg being broken and season ended only for the defender to see yellow.... some people have sort memories.
Separate names with a comma.