The Rashford and Martial predicament

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by TheReligion, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Aug 8, 2017
    #1

    TheReligion Abusive

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    What do we do with these two?

    Jose inherited them both from LvG. Martial was signed as a big money forward and Rashford promoted to fill an injury crisis at the time. They both did well and cemented their places in the squad. The issue now is how do you use them in this current side?

    Neither can cross the ball or hug the touchline like traditional wingers comfortably. This seems rather basic but by taking a player with them wide more space is opened up in central areas for others to enjoy.

    It's an issue for JM as he knows both are very talented but it seems impossible to get the best from them. I think if we work this out then we move up to the next level. It's as simple as that.
  2. Aug 8, 2017
    #2

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

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    Martial is good enough to be starting on the left, we should be trying to sign a right winger that can cross and bring more width not a left-winger. Rashford should be coming on as a super-sub and starting in a 3-5-2.
  3. Aug 8, 2017
    #3

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    I think Rashford has shown more ability to adapt under Mou. Martial has largely remained the same player he was, albeit in worse form. This is the reason why he isn't trusted much.
  4. Aug 8, 2017
    #4

    An Irish Red Full Member

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    I'd play Martial in an advanced role on the left hand side and use Rashfords pace late on in games, occasionally.
  5. Aug 8, 2017
    #5

    TheReligion Abusive

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    So you see Rashford as a CF and Martial as a LW?

    I tend to agree but then seeing Rashford destroy Carvajal from wide makes me think he'd be wasted?
  6. Aug 8, 2017
    #6

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

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    I would think 352 takes care of an issue. Martial at this moment in time is clearly a better footballer and when he has been played with Lukaku up top in that 2 he has looked dangerous and like he could make something happen. Rashford just has a bit too much of the head down and run about him. He needs to broaden his game and asap.
  7. Aug 8, 2017
    #7

    CM10 Full Member

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    Martial on the left, Rashford as a rotational option/impact sub. And attacking full-backs on both sides.
  8. Aug 8, 2017
    #8

    Yagami Full Member

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    In my opinion, Martial should be our left sided attacker as he's the only player bar Valencia who poses a threat out wide and, on top of that, is one of our few goal threats. Rashford should be a squad option for all the attacking positions. Up front, both flanks, as a #10. Basically replacing Lingard.
  9. Aug 8, 2017
    #9

    2 man midfield Incestuous Modern Woman (Dumper!)

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    I don't think Martial has enough graft for Jose's liking. Lingard runs all day, as does Perisic. Fellaini works his arse off. Now I know all three of these are wildly unpopular here, but they all have this in common and Jose rates all three. Martial can't get a look in, and it appears to be staying that way unless he fancies picking up his work rate.
  10. Aug 8, 2017
    #10

    Dir Wangem Banned

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    I think they are both good wingers(very good for their age). The problem is that Mourinho doesn't like to play with two attacking wingers at the same time in the tough games. Micky started today, and thus Rashford and Martial were sacrificed.
  11. Aug 8, 2017
    #11

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    I'd like to see Martial get a proper run of games. Confidence can't be that high when your in and out of the side so much (mostly out). He's one of the most talented players at the club. I'd hate for him to realize that talent elsewhere.
  12. Aug 8, 2017
    #12

    E-mal New Member

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    Madrid played today without a touch line hugging winger, perhaps our well paid manager should adapt his tactics.
  13. Aug 8, 2017
    #13

    Home&Away Banned

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    Martial needs to play as a CF; he is way too readible on the left especially when he is the only one making these type of runs in the whole squad.

    Martial and Rashford should be strikers either partnering each other or partnering being Lukaku.
  14. Aug 9, 2017
    #14

    Womp idiot

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    Madrid also have two of the best fullbacks in world football. Not to add Madrid's wide players are on a different level to ours.
  15. Aug 9, 2017
    #15

    edcunited1878 Full Member

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    Rashford will win out because his attitude and willingness to run himself to the ground defending and going forward, whether or not it bears any fruit, has been Jose MO so far with these two.

    The only way these two can play together is 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-2. If Jose sets up the team as a counter-attacking side with Martial, Mkhitaryan, Rashford and Lukaku behind Pogba and Herrera/Matic, the team can go wild.
  16. Aug 9, 2017
    #16

    reddevil702 Full Member

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    True but what Martial did to Carvajal in the previous game was even worse, had Carvajal spinning.
  17. Aug 9, 2017
    #17

    Wade3 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Martial should be our starter and Rashford an impact sub/occassional starter, it's really simple. The problem is Lingard, who should be a fill-in squad player, not a regular starter. He simply isn't productive enough for that role.
  18. Aug 9, 2017
    #18

    Womp idiot

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    Think it has more to do with the fact that Rashford has repaid his faith when called upon, whereas the same can't be said for Martial.

    Jose preferred Martial at the beginning of the season and was constantly playing him despite his form not improving. He started performing better towards the end of the season but it was obvious he was going to opt for Rashford when Ibra was out. With good reason too, without his moments of brilliance we wouldn't be in the CL with a trophy to boot.
  19. Aug 9, 2017
    #19

    Wade3 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Rashford had an extended period of time when he simply didn't perform. I'm a huge fan of the kid, but let's not pretend as if he was that great for long stretches. He came up huge in the end in our EL semi-final, but he was trusted a lot longer through average to poor stretches whereas Martial, as the season went on, could have great peformances and still not be trusted for several games.

    There was an unjustified double standard, no doubt about it, and it was based on an alleged difference in work ethic.

    I think Rashford is a very easy character to handle while Martial may be a bit more difficult and Mourinho simply struggled with him. As much as I demand our players to adapt to our manager, I also expect our manager to be able to deal with different characters. If Mourinho struggles with it, then he has to work on it and not just claim his assistants can do it. It's an obvious weakness of his and he needs to fix it.
  20. Aug 9, 2017
    #20

    sammsky1 Pochettino's #1 fan

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    Firstly need to stop using their age as a excuse. If they play, they should be expected to contribute and be judged as first team players. When they do well, it's simply expected of them, when they don't, they should accept the critique.

    On that basis, especially with rumours that Ibra will return, Rashford is a sqaud super sub who can also sometimes rotate on the wings. I don't think he merits the 50+ appearances he got last season. If he hits a amazing scoring streak, play him til that runs out, but he is not a 1st XI player. Given his character I think he'll accept this role.

    Martial needs to make peace in becoming a wide attacker and genuinely commit to it. In doing so, he has to run the miles Mourinho expects from this position and then he has a chance. It seems more of a mental block with Martial. He should model himself on a young Henry, or even the Barcelona Henry.
  21. Aug 9, 2017
    #21

    BluesJr Full Member

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    Martial Lukaku Rashford

    Pogba Matic Herrera


    Problem solved.
  22. Aug 9, 2017
    #22

    lem8sh Banned

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    Martial is undoubtedly the superior player imo.
  23. Aug 9, 2017
    #23

    legball Full Member

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    If Jose wants to use Martial out wide, he'll do it. He has played with wide forwards throughout his career, even used Eto'o out wide when he was at Inter, it's not something he can't do. And please, this attitude nonsense is wearing thin now, just because you run more doesn't mean you have a better attitude than me, attitude transcends running. It's like saying Ozil, Berbatov or players of that ilk don't have a good attitude, it's not attitude, it's how they are, their personality and how they play. And it's not about repaying faith or whatever, Jose was very happy to persist with Rashford when he went over 30 games without scoring, let's not act like Rashford wasn't very poor until March, when he actually played as a striker. There's a double standard there that I can't wrap my head around, or maybe Martial is a terrible human being, but why hasn't he been sold if so, and why were all his past managers happy to work with him? Ranieri, Jardim.
    Managers have their preferences and that is fine, but ideally, Rashford should be used as a striker, compete with Lukaku and Martial should start at left wing, he has the X factor and game changing ability than none of our attackers have, it's a shame though that we're letting a world class talent go to waste so that we can play Lingard, whom I don't know what he offers, it's almost like it's a personal thing for Jose, it's pathetic actually. It's not the player, it's the manager who simply doesn't fancy him for whatever reason.
  24. Aug 9, 2017
    #24

    sammsky1 Pochettino's #1 fan

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    It seems Lingard is the go-to-man when we need to park the bus: abut like SAF would use Park or Phil Neville. I don't have a problem with that as he performs that role quite well.
  25. Aug 9, 2017
    #25

    welshwingwizard Full Member

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    I think in easier games we should be playing them both in 433 either side of Lukaku.

    I think Martial will thrive with a better midfield and more mobile striker (don't think he is a winger though) whilst I absolutely love Rashford and don't see the super-sub thing.

    He is positive, dangerous and always looks like one of the most likely to make something happen as seen today when he came on.

    I think tougher games will require re-thinking but against lower PL cannon fodder we should let these guys loose and build their confidence.

    Our real problem is full backs though who can support the attackers and stretch play creating gaps. What I would give to have an Evra type player marauding down the wing again...I think without this we will struggle to get the best out of all our attackers because they are always facing too many players and there isn't the space or numbers to play 1-2s etc.
  26. Aug 9, 2017
    #26

    legball Full Member

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    Park Ji Sung was an amazing player, Lingard is shit. I understand the comparison, but Park was quality even though he wasn't world class, there's genuinely no reason why Lingard should start for a club like United, it's a disgrace.
  27. Aug 9, 2017
    #27

    sammsky1 Pochettino's #1 fan

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    I was trying....

    Yeah. I agree. Wonder why JM keeps picking him? Is it under board pressure because he is homegrown?

    Park was world class in the role he performed. During his era, there was no better player in world football being a midfield destroyer like him.
  28. Aug 9, 2017
    #28

    kundalini Full Member

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    Martial, Lukaku and Rashford should all start. If plan A isn't working then look to one of Mata, Lingard or Mkhitaryan.

    If Martial, Lukaku and Rashford each start 30+ PL matches then there is a slim chance that we score enough goals to compete for the title. Otherwise we will be miles short of the required number of goals.
  29. Aug 9, 2017
    #29

    edcunited1878 Full Member

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    That's the drive that Rashford has. He'll will himself and try shit to come off even if he'll repeated fail. Martial ends up dribbling himself into cul-de-sacs or shooting over the bar after cutting onto his right side when a pass and move would have sufficed.
  30. Aug 9, 2017
    #30

    septic Full Member

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    Martial clearly should be starting. Jose has that one wrong.

    Rashford should be competing with Miki on the right, along with Mata. He's good but needs to be better to get a starting spot.
  31. Aug 9, 2017
    #31

    Borden Full Member

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    Of course Martial should start. But leave it to Mourinho to play a vastly inferior and less productive player in Lingard because he runs around more. I'd play Rashford on the right and Martial on the left. Mkhitaryan needs to step up his game significantly, he is excrutiatingly sloppy.

    But the bigger problem is that we're too defensive, not attacking with enough numbers, and are too predictable.
  32. Aug 9, 2017
    #32

    legball Full Member

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    So, when Rashford tries and fails = will and drive,
    Martial tries and fails = he's wrong.
    It's like you all have to invent these things to make yourself feel better. Even in today's game, he could have played Lukaku through on goal, but didn't look up and just tried to kick and run, it's like we just ignore and accommodate Rashford's fault but can't do that with Martial. Lol
  33. Aug 9, 2017
    #33

    automaticflare Full Member

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    The real answer despite some of the nonsense is either or both have to step up to the plate and put in the performances and goals to cement their place.
    If they do not do that their is no predicament.
    That is the only answer to this question.
  34. Aug 9, 2017
    #34

    nokillingmoths Full Member

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    Nah in a 352 miki goes in the 2 with Lukaku. Otherwise only Pogba has the skill to unlock a defence.
  35. Aug 9, 2017
    #35

    sammsky1 Pochettino's #1 fan

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    If we sign Perisic or another winger, which seems highly likely, potential playing time available for both gets dramatically reduced.
  36. Aug 9, 2017
    #36

    BluesJr Full Member

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    It's more complex than that though with young players. They need to be played week in week out to iron out the flaws and it enables them to learn on the pitch, the only true school for a footballer wanting to reach the very top. Look at Ronaldo when he was here, the first few seasons he was so frustrating but SAF persisted because he knew what could potentially happen, and it did. It's not like they don't produce when they're on the pitch either, they contribute and they'd produce even more if they were both starting most games.
  37. Aug 9, 2017
    #37

    sammsky1 Pochettino's #1 fan

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    Yes. Perfectly expressed.

    Neither has done enough in thier Manchester United career so far to even be talked about this way.

    Make yourself undroppable and predicament can then be discussed.
  38. Aug 9, 2017
    #38

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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    I think under Mourinho, Rashford is a better option off the bench than Martial is but at the same time, Rashford is way more likely to be used as a starter than Martial is.

    I'd like to try and see us get the best out of both of them as they both provide something different but I think Mourinho sees room in the starting XI for one of them and Rashford will be the preferred option, with the exception of big games like tonight where he loves to use Lingard.

    Here are the stats for last season:

    [​IMG]

    The really worrying thing is seeing how ineffective all but Rashford have been off the bench, and even then Rashford's stats aren't fantastic.

    I can't see Mourinho starting both this season in games, so bearing that in mind I'd personally have two of Mata, Mkhitaryan and Martial as starters with whoever is left out as well as Rashford used mainly as subs though I guess it depends on formation we'll be using. I think Mourinho will opt for Rashford and Mkhitaryan/Mata to start most games with whoever is left out used along with Lingard or Martial as subs.
  39. Aug 9, 2017
    #39

    edcunited1878 Full Member

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    I knew when I wrote that I'll be singled out, but fair play as I minced my words trying to summarize Jose here...

    "He is a kid who finishes a training session and stays half an hour more every day to take free-kicks and to wait for the opportunity," the United boss added (h/t Pete Jenson and Tom Farmery of the Daily Mail). "It's his mentality. He works and works and works. He's very mature. He trains, he practices, he enjoys the extra work."

    "Marcus Rashford doesn’t score goals since September [in the Premier League] – the only thing he deserves is support. Nothing else. Support, no critics, support. He works, he works, he works. He tries, he plays through the middle, he goes to the left, he goes to the right, he tries, he tries, he tries.

    "The kid is desperate. It’s not a surprise for me – the second year not being as good as the first one. Maybe one day I will try to find out if it happened with Ryan Giggs or someone. They appear as a kid and then the next year it’s not the same. But the kid is phenomenal – an amazing professional. So no problem. I told him – keep going."

    "Marcus is trustable," the manager told MUTV. "Even for the second goal, his free-kick was really high, impossible to score from a header because it was to what we call the third post - not the first or second post. But he's always tense, he's always fast, and you can always trust that [he will make] strong contact with the ball.

    "The ball always goes with speed with him. With some other guys, the ball goes in the right spot but slower. Even if you win the duel in the air, it can be really difficult to score, so in this moment Marcus is one of the boys we trust. Because he's so young, he's able to keep developing that day after day; he's always with one of the assistant coaches trying to make it even better."
  40. Aug 9, 2017
    #40

    edcunited1878 Full Member

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    Do you have a plus/minus goal difference when Rashford and Martial are on the bench versus on the pitch?