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The relative strength of the Premier League

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Wumminator, Mar 5, 2016.

  1. Mar 5, 2016
    #1

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    In this thread I am going to discuss the strength of the premier league. I don’t care if you think I am WUMming, I don’t care if you think I am completely wrong, please don’t post in here if you’re not going to contribute well.


    I see a lot of people saying we have a weaker league now than

    a) Five years ago

    b) Other leagues

    I think we couldn’t be further from the truth. We actually have the strongest league I think I’ve ever seen right now, the quality is immense. From players like Lukaku, Butland and Cabaye being regulars in bottom ten sides to teams like Arsenal, Chelsea and United struggling while being filled with star studded players.


    For this post I will compare the 5th, 11th and 15th team in the league (Why not 10th? Because Chelsea are there and I don’t think there performance this year is a true reflection of where they should be, even though it does suggest the league is strong)


    The first post will be the fifth placed team.

    I will try and shoehorn the players with the most appearances into the starting line ups, and put the other big names on the bench.


    This is Manchester United, currently (and comfortably) fifth.


    ---------------DDG-------------

    Darmian- Smalling – Blind – Young

    ------------Carrick---Schniderlin-------

    Martial-------Mata---------Memphis

    ---------------Rooney-------------


    Subs: Romero, Jones, Lingard, Herrera, Shaw, Valencia, Fellaini


    Now all of these players are recognized internationals and we have some proper world class talent. DDG, Martial and Smalling the real stand outs.


    Without comment I will present other related teams.

    Tottenham (Five years ago)


    --------------Gomes--------------

    Hutton – Gallas – Kaboul --- Assou Ekotto

    ---------------Sandro----------------

    ----------Modric----Palacios---------

    Lennon--------Crouch --------Bale


    Subs: Cudicini, Defoe, Corluka, Jenas, Pavlychenko, Bassong, Van Der Vaart


    FSV Mainz (Germany)

    ---------------Lorius Karius --------------

    Brosinski – Bell – Bungert – Bengstton

    -------------------Baumgartlinger----------

    ---------------Latza-----Frei--------------

    Clemens-------Malli—----------Samperio

    -------------------Muto-------------------

    Subs: De Blasis, Balogun, Neiderlechner, Cordoba, Moritz, Jara,


    Sevilla (Spanish)

    ---------------------Rico--------------

    Coke – Rami – Kolodziejczak – Tremoulinas

    ---------------N’zonzi-------------------

    Vitolo--------Krohn-Delhi----Konoplayanka-

    ------------Gameiro----------Llorente-------------

    Subs: Soria, Banega, Krychowiak, Reyes, Mariano, Immobile, Iborra.


    Does this not suggest to anyone right away the quality of the respective leagues?
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
  2. Mar 5, 2016
    #2

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Just a quick comparison from me.

    For a start, as we will see throughout these comparisons, the German league is way way way behind in terms of star power and quality in their league. The Mainz line up seems particularly weak when comparing other teams.

    Secondly, it becomes apparent that United's defence is pretty mean when comparing it to other leagues, the Sevilla team in particular is aging and would struggle to be compared to their United counterpart.

    Thirdly, it's hilarious that Reyes is still playing.
  3. Mar 5, 2016
    #3

    Cina full member

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    "currently and comfortably fifth"

    :lol:
  4. Mar 5, 2016
    #4

    Kostur Full Member

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    Yup, shame on Sevilla, they play with 12 players.
  5. Mar 5, 2016
    #5

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Well we are, I don't see us moving much from there realistically by the end of the season, although recent results have made me hopeful again.
  6. Mar 5, 2016
    #6

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Right I'll edit that and then @Cina if you can delete that post...
  7. Mar 5, 2016
    #7

    Kostur Full Member

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    Delete what post? Mine?

    Cina please don't delete my post.
  8. Mar 5, 2016
    #8

    Hammerfell Full Member

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    What are you?
  9. Mar 5, 2016
    #9

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Matches aren't played on paper. We saw many matches against teams United should have beaten on paper not ending up as wins in Europe.
  10. Mar 5, 2016
    #10

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    Yeah, the league is incredible. Tottenham beat 16th place Swansea. 3rd place Arsenal get walloped by United U21s. 16th Place Swansea beat 3rd place Arsenal. Then 2nd place Spurs draw, whilst being outplayed, against a 10 man team that have been largely awful in 2016. Oh and we have City losing three games in a row. Whilst top of the place Leicester were in the Championship 2 years ago.

    Like many have said before, in terms of entertainment, this league is number 1, hands down. I'd say in term of world wide entertainment, the PL is right up there. Quality wise, it's piss poor.
  11. Mar 5, 2016
    #11

    Ole's_toe_poke Ole_Aged_Slow_Poke

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    How can a team be comfortably 5th if a one result swing could send them 6th and a two result swing could send them 7th?
  12. Mar 5, 2016
    #12

    Cina full member

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    Last six EL winners

    Atletico
    Porto
    Atletico
    Chelsea
    Sevilla
    Sevilla

    1 PL winner, 4 La Liga winners

    Last six years of CL semi-finalists

    Bayern
    Lyon
    Barca
    Inter

    Schalke
    Man Utd
    Real
    Barca

    Bayern
    Real
    Chelsea
    Barca

    Bayern
    Dortmund
    Barca
    Real

    Real
    Atletico
    Chelsea
    Bayern

    Barcelona
    Bayern
    Juve
    Real

    12 La Liga, 6 Bundesliga, 3 PL.
  13. Mar 5, 2016
    #13

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Yes, but, it's the best way of judging a team as to me, a two game knockout doesn't take in to account many factors.
  14. Mar 5, 2016
    #14

    Cina full member

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    This is true, they certainly don't take into account how utterly deluded you are.
  15. Mar 5, 2016
    #15

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    My premise, which I will eventually get to, is the fact that

    a) The Premier League has more teams
    b) The Premier League has better teams
    c) The premier league plays more matches

    means that we suffer in Europe, as in England the Premier League is a bigger financial reward.
  16. Mar 5, 2016
    #16

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Would you swap any of those squads for ours?
  17. Mar 5, 2016
    #17

    Cina full member

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    It doesn't
    It doesn't
    It doesn't
  18. Mar 5, 2016
    #18

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Well it does, we'll play way more games than any La Liga and Bundesliga team this year probably.
  19. Mar 5, 2016
    #19

    Cina full member

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    I'm not a Mathematician but the PL has 20 teams and so does La Liga. I believe that means we don't actually have more games?
  20. Mar 5, 2016
    #20

    Ole's_toe_poke Ole_Aged_Slow_Poke

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    Wtf.
  21. Mar 5, 2016
    #21

    Cina full member

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    Would you swap Leicester's squad for ours?
  22. Mar 5, 2016
    #22

    Kostur Full Member

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    It's probably because we don't play with 12 players like they do in La Liga.
  23. Mar 5, 2016
    #23

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Taking into account other competitions.
  24. Mar 5, 2016
    #24

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Compared to the Bundesliga.
  25. Mar 5, 2016
    #25

    Cina full member

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    Elaborate.
    :lol:
  26. Mar 5, 2016
    #26

    Kostur Full Member

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    Actually I just noticed that they play with 12 players in Germany as well.

    No wonder they keep winning in CL and EL, wankers.
  27. Mar 5, 2016
    #27

    Kasper Full Member

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    I expect this thread to have:
    - at least 3 users saying 'this stuff goes in circles'
    - someone claiming that the competitivness of the PL is the reason why the teams struggle in Europe
    - someone to expose the above as bullshit
    - 2 users bringing up the missing winter break
    - 5 users asking why the missing winter break didn't hinder the PL from 2005-2011
    - a lot of angry Bundesliga fans
    - a lot of laughing smileys directed at Twigginater
  28. Mar 5, 2016
    #28

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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  29. Mar 5, 2016
    #29

    Santiago_KinderBueno Santiago Kinder Bannedo

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  30. Mar 5, 2016
    #30

    kps88 Full Member

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    By this logic, you'll have to compare Leicester to the top teams five years ago and ask if the quality has gone up.
  31. Mar 5, 2016
    #31

    Cina full member

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    @Twigginater Barca played 60 games last season, Real 59, Atletico 56.

    Chelsea were the closest PL team with 54.

    At some point, having been so wrong on so many things throughout the years, you really just have to take a step back and think to yourself "am I clueless?" *

    * the answer is yes.
  32. Mar 5, 2016
    #32

    kps88 Full Member

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    :lol:
  33. Mar 5, 2016
    #33

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Best way to judge is to take into account as many matches as possible and not just ones to suit your agenda.
  34. Mar 5, 2016
    #34

    senorgregster Last Newbie Standing

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    Right but what if you compare the 8th place in Germany to 6th in Spain and 11th in England? Quite eye opening!
  35. Mar 5, 2016
    #35

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    :lol:
  36. Mar 5, 2016
    #36

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Manchester United this year will take place in four cup competitions.
    No-one in this thread (apart from you) is comparing the amount of games played by the top teams in the league, I'm looking at 5th placed teams.

    It's funny, I thought when I made this thread, I'd get intelligent thoughtful responses. I have yet to see anyone debate the merits of these squads at all.

    BTW Cina, daily reminder you closed a thread last year because I compared Van Gaal to Moyes and you thought it was ridiculous.
  37. Mar 5, 2016
    #37

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Why not equate equal teams?
  38. Mar 5, 2016
    #38

    Cina full member

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    :lol:

    Also, it was ridiculous.
  39. Mar 5, 2016
    #39

    11101 Full Member

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    The league as a spectacle is far stronger than the others and the level of competition each week is higher. That's at the expense of overall quality though as the top teams in the other major leagues can run away with their leagues and focus their attention on preparing for European competition. Just look at the goal differences year on year, which is a better indicator than points imo of how strong/weak competition is in a league. For example its a joke in Spain how much difference there is between some of the teams. Barcelona and Madrid frequently get into the 70s and 80s. That just couldn't happen now in the Premier League.
  40. Mar 5, 2016
    #40

    DrunkenBeaver Banned

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    I think the PL is strong. Too strong almost. You may be able to attribute the poor performances in Europe of our top sides down to the fact that for the most part the top clubs in Germany, Italy and Spain get relatively easy rides each weekend. Our top clubs don't often have than luxury, unless they're playing Aston fecking Villa.