The Road Trip Draft R1: Don Alfredo vs Edgar Allan Pillow

Discussion in 'Draft Games Forum' started by harms, Nov 1, 2018.

?

Who will win this match?

Poll closed Nov 2, 2018.
  1. Don Alfredo

    60.0%
  2. Edgar Allan Pillow

    40.0%
  1. Nov 1, 2018
    #1

    harms Way Staff

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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Don Alfredo --------------- Vs. ----------------- Edgar Allan Pillow

    Don Alfredo's tactics

    Formation:
    Lopsided 433 / 442 Diamond

    Tactics:

    Defensively, I am well equipped to deal with the threats of EAP because of my great central players (Varela, Cannavaro, Robson, Krol) and on the flanks I have the right players to defend against tricky wingers. Bossis is a good fit for Gento; Zebec and Krol together will be enough to handle Matthews.

    Offensively, I have threats from everywhere because Romario is a huge mismatch for any CB that EAP can put up. Zebec and Kubalastretch the pitch and prevent his outside defenders from tucking in, leaving Romario 1v1. Bergkamp is always a huge threat, he can score by himself because he has no dedicated holding midfielder or second CB against him. He can also put my other attackers into play because he has great vision and passing. This leads me to the greatest piece of the jigsaw, the maestro himself Andrea Pirlo will make this game his own and put my great attackers constantly into dangerous 1v1 situations with his unbelievable passing ability.

    Why I will win:

    1) Quality players all over the pitch, not a single player who is below par

    2) Great balance in midfield

    3) Defensive strength through complimentary composition and ability in 1v1 defending

    4) Perfect role for Zebec, the only player who is world class at LB, LW and CB and probably the fastest player on the pitch. He ran 100m in 11s in football boots, but dunno about Gento’s time, don’t want to dismiss him

    5) Romario, Kubala and Bergkamp vs EAP’s defenders is a huge mismatch

    6) Great composition of legendary players without one dominating presence who overshines the others, everyone is great at one specific thing and adds that to the side

    7) Great base for Pirlo, who has the right midfielders around him to do much of the dirty work and has incredible weapons up front to pick out with a pass


    Edgar Allan Pillow's tactics

    Formation:
    WM (2-3-5)

    Goalkeeper: Manuel Neuer
    One of the greatest keepers of all time, he's knows for his expert reflects, stellar ability in shot stopping and cross handling. Intimidating in one-on-one situations, his ability to step out and be a 12th man in organizing and helping the defence will be integral part in making a strong defence.

    Fullbacks: Manuel Sanchis - Armando Picchi

    Two solid and complete sweepers with class and ability to get the ball out of defence quickly. Integral parts of Quinta del Buitre and La Grande Inter and captains of the respective teams, they are defensive heavyweights and were the the mainstay of defence for their highly successful teams.

    Halfbacks: Duncan Edwards - Ernst Ocwirk - Berti Vogts

    All 3 are known for their defensive ability and considered one of the best of all time in their respective positions. Additionally all good on the ball abilities and passing range and able to bring the ball out and support the attack. Both side backs are comfortable out wide and able to tuck in and support the midfield as necessary.

    Inside Forwards: Zico - Jose Manuel Moreno

    The brains of the team and bridge to attack, abilities of Zico and Moreno are above any question. El Charro is regarded by many as a complete player and in 1999, he was ranked as the 5th best South American player in the 20th Century (behind Pelé, Maradona, Di Stéfano and Garrincha). Good technique and vision and ability to drop deep and support as well as move up with lethal reputation in the box. The White Pele is also a created forward with lethal goal scoring ability and comfortable in multiple positions in attack.

    Outside Forwards: Paco Gento - Stanley Matthews

    Possibly the best wingers duo in this draft. In an all time context, I rank both of them second just behind Garrincha and George Best on their respective flanks. Pace, skill, trickery, dribbling, ability to take on the defenders outside and beat them...they have it all.

    Centre Forward: Alfredo Di Stefano

    This team is built around the Blond Arrow, a powerful, quick, skillful, and prolific forward, with great stamina, tactical versatility, creativity, and vision, who could also play almost anywhere on the pitch.

    Helenio Herrera "If Pele was the the lead violinist, then Di Stefano was the entire orchestra"

    Newspaper L'Equipe "He was a midfielder who won the ball, a No.10 who controlled the game and delivered the final pass, and a striker who put the ball into the net. If you put together Redondo, Zidane and [Brazilian] Ronaldo, you might get close to what he was"

    Roman Calderon likes to tell a anecdote of a father and son coming up to a statue of Di Stefano "Daddy" says the boy, "was he a player?". "No" replies the dad, "he was a team"
  2. Nov 1, 2018
    #2

    harms Way Staff

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  3. Nov 1, 2018
    #3

    Don Alfredo Full Member

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    @Edgar Allan Pillow

    What is that? I thought you were going to go full WM?:drool: I'm a bit disappointed:(;)

    Good luck:D
  4. Nov 1, 2018
    #4

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    That is WM :confused:
  5. Nov 1, 2018
    #5

    Don Alfredo Full Member

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    That's a WW, WM has 3 defenders and 2 halfbacks. Not that important though:wenger:
  6. Nov 1, 2018
    #6

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Oops sorry. My bad. It's a 2-3-5.
  7. Nov 1, 2018
    #7

    green_smiley :lol:

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    Literally no midfield from EAP, perfect for Pirlo to shine
  8. Nov 1, 2018
    #8

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Good luck Don. Though I'm surprised at your formation. I expected you to go

    ...........Romario.....Kubala............
    ...................Bergkamp..................
    .............Varela....Robson...............
    Zebec..................................Sagnol
    ......Bossis...Krol...Cannavaro.....
  9. Nov 1, 2018
    #9

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    What do you mean? When I have the ball, Edwards and Vogts will squeeze into midfield and Ocwirk will venture up. I have Moreno who usually drops deep right and then Di Dtefano himself is a one man spine.
  10. Nov 1, 2018
    #10

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    In a 2-3-5 you don't have fullbacks providing overlapping width. Rather in offensive phase they move up to wide midfielders. Edwards and Ocwirk are very good long and short passers and then they have Gento and Matthews to pass wide and array of talent ahead of them in middle.
  11. Nov 1, 2018
    #11

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Pirlo has stated himself that he's best best in front of defense. He lacks the speed and workrate to be a side midfielder.

    Gento and Matthews are better than the respective fullbacks too.
  12. Nov 1, 2018
    #12

    Don Alfredo Full Member

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    Pirlo can drop deep in possession to build up play. The formation graphic has to show Varela in the deepest midfield position and Pirlo a bit higher because that is how the midfield will defend when off the ball.

    The demands of Pirlo here are also very different to those of a CM in a standard diamond formation. Usually you have an attacking RB like Cafu and the CM has to cover for him, but that is different here. Bossis is very solid and can stay at the back because Kubala is the one attacking down the right.

    Please keep in mind that I always have Krol to cover for Zebec, he is near perfect in that LB/LCB hybrid role, only Maldini is better.
  13. Nov 1, 2018
    #13

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    @Edgar Allan Pillow was loving your set up up until the last picks, and even then, Abidal instead Manolo makes perfect sense.


    -------Edwards--Ocwirk----
    ---Abidal---Picchi----Vogts

    a proper WM, dunno why you went with Manolo there whilst a LCB makes much more sense.
  14. Nov 2, 2018
    #14

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    I was not sure on how Abidal would be rated. Also he lacks a proper right winger to take advantage. Edwards is a better fit against Kubala as he can squeeze when Kubala cuts in. Kubala is not a player to beat a man on outside. I see him operating in space between Edwards and Ocwirk....right in front of Manolo.
  15. Nov 2, 2018
    #15

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    I've gone for Edgar so far. Kubala and Zebec will have too much of a job trying to provide an outlet when the middle gets clogged up with so many players wanting space in there.
  16. Nov 2, 2018
    #16

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    If you prefer you can read the formation as

    .....Edwards.....Ocwirk......
    Sanchis....Picchi.....Vogts

    Sanchis is still a complete sweeper and won't be a disaster....and there still is no proper winger against him....nor a full back as Bossis is tucking in.
  17. Nov 2, 2018
    #17

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Love Bossis but he's better on the left or as LCB. Irrespective, Gento is a superior winger.

    Same with Matthews vs Zebec. With Zebec tasked with providing width, Matthews will dominate space behind....esp with Moreno drifting wide when we have the ball.
  18. Nov 2, 2018
    #18

    Indnyc Full Member

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    @Edgar Allan Pillow lovely attacking team :drool:

    Don’t know much about Sanchis.. Some views on him would help
  19. Nov 2, 2018
    #19

    Don Alfredo Full Member

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    I think you have a serious problem in midfield when Edwards has to watch Kubala all game. This leaves only Ocwirk to put up any kind of resistance against Bergkamp, Robson and Pirlo, who will run havoc in the middle of the pitch. Vogts can‘t help much because Zebec is a huge threat on the outside, preventing him from coming inside.
  20. Nov 2, 2018
    #20

    Theon Full Member

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    Agree with this completely.

    @Edgar Allan Pillow you’ve gone for a really difficult formation and imo you’ve nearly pulled it off perfectly - except for a missing LCB which would allow Edwards to move into midfield.

    Vogts is a flawless RCB option (a GOAT contender along with someone like Thuram) and the wingers you’ve gone for are tactically beautiful, with that touchline hugging ability which you need with a stacked 5 man attack. They’ll stretch the oppotion back line and create lots of pockets of space for Zico etc to float into. Can see you doing a lot of damage going forward.

    You’re just missing that LCB. Agree with Enigma that Abidal would have been a good fit.
  21. Nov 2, 2018
    #21

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    A real Madrid legend and captain. Part of Quinta del Butre, a group of 5 players who led them to glory. Complete sweeper. Defensively sound and good on the ball ability. Able to bring ball out and pass well from deep. Pace, strength, tactical and positional awareness, he has it all.
  22. Nov 2, 2018
    #22

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    It's quite ironic that I had Bossis tagged for that role. I was fuming against @Don Alfredo for picking him and end up facing him. :lol:

    Agree with comments, but tactically in this match minus a winger and full back, it'll matter less.
  23. Nov 2, 2018
    #23

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    @Indnyc

    - He was a two footed defender. Stronger right foot but preferred the left side.
    - Aggressive defender. Not afraid to step off the line and close out and intercept attacks and pressure attackers.
    - Excellent man marker and good tackler. Read that he was defensively better than Hierro.
    - Very energetic, good pace and workrate. Quick reflexes.
    - Good passer. Simple straight forward passes but could pass them deep and long with accuracy.
    - Played as a CB and sweeper. Complete defender with no obvious flaws.

    Tactically complimentary to Picchi and Neuer.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  24. Nov 2, 2018
    #24

    Indnyc Full Member

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    Thanks
  25. Nov 2, 2018
    #25

    oneniltothearsenal Caf's Milton Friedman (and Arse aficionado) Scout

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    I really like how Pillow is trying to update an old tactic into a modern version but Alfredo's side is extremely well balanced even as an asymmetric tactic. Its quite creative as well as being balanced.
  26. Nov 2, 2018
    #26

    Himannv New Member

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    I like seeing tactics like the WM used + I think it'll be a lot more effective than people think. That front 5 is irresistible really.
  27. Nov 2, 2018
    #27

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    Really? Now I rate Zebec and because of his versatility even had him as an option, but don't know how you can say that. Defensively he is nowhere near Maldini. If you have a bit more on him, don't mind to hear it.

    That said, not sure about Edgar formation with Vogts where he is and Romario on the shoulder of Picchi and Sanchis with Pirlo in the middle.
  28. Nov 2, 2018
    #28

    Skizzo Full Member

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    He’s saying Krol is close to Maldini in that role, not Zebec.
  29. Nov 2, 2018
    #29

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    Aye, that's what happens when you write as soon as you wake up. Nothing to see, move along.
  30. Nov 2, 2018
    #30

    Gio ★★★★★★★★

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    This. Thought the shape was just about nailed. But Sanchis looked like a Picchi alternative or central partner rather than someone tasked with defending large wide areas.
  31. Nov 2, 2018
    #31

    GodShaveTheQueen Full Member

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    While you have got to appreciate the efforts, there is a thin line between a genius and a suicidal formation.
    A WM would defend well against a central attack, a WW would defend well against an attack which has width too.

    Not expecting Robson, Pirlo and especially Bergkamp to split that defense with 1 pass is really unfair to their abilities. No worse player to face than Bergkamp in such scenarios.
    Kubala is another one who would love to come in from that side and Sanchis and Edwards is a really odd choice if its to be versatile, without any other cover.
    Romario to top that is then just too much to handle in a 2 man defense.

    Ocwirk was a genius pick and with Edwards around, as many have pointed out, all that was needed was a decent LCB (Abidal) who could then be upgraded in the very next reinforcements.
    The attack is absolutely stellar of course, but I am a firm believer of top loaded teams losing big games with a badly structured defense.
    The team deserves the vote, but the tactics don't.

    To be fair, Zebec in his late 2nd peak was considered the best CB in the world. I wouldn't mind even if Krol and Zebec were exchanged.
    Obviously Zebec on the wings makes more sense and Krol as covering, but the other way round is not a huge degrade by any means.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  32. Nov 2, 2018
    #32

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    you do have a point on Kubala, who is unlikely to stretch the play and most likely cut inside more often than not.

    However still Manolo isn't the right type for me to defend out wide. He had some pace but lacks agility to defend on consistent basis against your typical wide forwards or wingers.

    In WW you will have Duncan most likely cover for Kubala the whole game when off the ball on the left inside channel. It's not that he isn't perfect to that role, but you will lose his impact centrally and Ocwirk against Bergkamp and Robson could be decisive. Especially with Manolo and Picchi not your typical stepping in liberos but kind of more conservative sweepers. You might have Sanchis in that role as he has the game for it but a proper WM would have been very easy on the eye and with Don Alfredo's more narrow formation you would win the game IMO and have my vote.
  33. Nov 2, 2018
    #33

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Defend out wide against whom?

    Kubala is a Striker/Inside Right at best. There is no overlapping full back that flank. He has no width to stretch my defence. Kubala is likely to operate exactly where Sanchis and Edwards are.

    I can understand the comments on general, but in this match, they are tactically correct, imo.
  34. Nov 2, 2018
    #34

    harms Way Staff

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    As most have said already, I believe that Edgar went the wrong way. And even if we're talking about the personnel, I'm not the biggest fan of Sanchis, especially when he's up against Romario/Bergkamp/Kubala. It's still close because of that magnificent attack of his, but, as it stands, I'm edging towards Don Alfredo.

    Don's right wing is not ideal though. Bossis covers the center (and tries to get ahold of Gento), Kubala isn't really a winger and Pirlo, obviously, isn't going to help out wide.
  35. Nov 2, 2018
    #35

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    See point above. Even in games he provisionally started wide, he driften into middle and was a organizer as a creative Second Striker.....same as Bergkamp. He's is not a defense stretching player. He'll operate where Edwards is and cut into where Sanchis is.

    Why? I can't think of any flaws in his game. Aggressive closer and tackler and good on the ball too.

    With nobody to stretch the play, my compact defence will hold good.

    Gento and Matthews will cause more harm.
  36. Nov 2, 2018
    #36

    harms Way Staff

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    I just don't rate him as an all-time great, which is what you need against Romario & co.
  37. Nov 2, 2018
    #37

    Gio ★★★★★★★★

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    That's a fair point.

    Some concern though over how well suited Sanchis is to Kubala and moreso Romario. Sanchis brings some useful attributes to the table and here he can match up to Kubala's more muscular style quite well to be fair. From recollection though, Romario's record against Real Madrid was pretty good.
  38. Nov 2, 2018
    #38

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    It's not one on one vs him here, right. Picchi and squeezing in Vogts are likely to handle Ronario here. It's a compact defence.

    On other side you have Gento and MatthrM stretching the play and Zico and Moreno slipping in plus Di Stefano. I'm far more likelier to score than him.
  39. Nov 2, 2018
    #39

    GodShaveTheQueen Full Member

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    Which is why you'd want 3 CB's in a WM?

    Beegkamp and Kubala is not a right comparison. Kubala was way more direct and more involved at the business end of scoring rather than creating from deeper areas. Also, Kubala while not being a pure winger, did have the ability to drift outwide and stretch defences. Have seen footage of him doing that. He was more of a Salah than a Bergkamp
  40. Nov 2, 2018
    #40

    Edgar Allan Pillow Ero-Sennin

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    Sanchis against Romario now? He's like a one man defensive line, damn :D

    It'll be Picchi and squeezing in Vogts, Romario is likely to face. Again with no defence stretching, he'll face a compact and organized wall.