The Summer 2019 Rebuild

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by charlenefan, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. Mar 13, 2019

    cathari Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    259
    He did win the Sir Matt Busby POTY playing CDM, and I remember some crazy statistics where he was compared to Kanté that season, so I'd say he can play CDM. However, the timing to move him to CDM now is not great, and I'd plan a bit differently. Firstly I think he offers much of the same to CDM as Matic, even though he is a bit faster and covers more ground. Secondly, he has in fact been pretty solid at CM under Ole, and I'd give him one or two more seasons there before moving him to CDM when Matic is finished. Yes, I know some are looking for more end product from him or someone else in his position, but his tactical awareness has been great for some of Ole's game plans.

    Instead of Herrera, I'd go with Fred for CDM, as some have already suggested. With his recent performances, he has shown some of the abilities I'd like from a challenger to Matic. Being quicker on and off the ball than both Matic and Herrera, and with his close control and dribbling, he could offer something new to CDM. Previously, I've been an advocate for giving him more time at CM, but posters suggesting he played deeper for Shakhtar and his improved performances against PSG and Arsenal have made me think that CDM might be a better fit for him than CM.

    I guess apologies in advance are in order for jumping the gun on Fred. It's only been a few decent performances from him so far, and it's hard to say what kind of future he has at United, and where it'll be on the pitch, but I'd give it a shout that it could maybe make more sense to play him at CDM and find someone else to challenge Herrera at CM, than vice versa.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  2. Mar 13, 2019

    ForestRGoinUp Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    969
    This wouldn't be my first preference, but if we were to only make 3 signings I would argue they could all be along the back line. Just sort that once and for all. Shaw is our only legitimate FB currently. An injury to him would mean Young to the left and Dalot on the right? That is a nightmare.

    Get in competition/cover for Shaw.
    Get in a nailed on First XI right back that sees Young pushed to backup backup.
    Go get De Ligt. Don't know enough about all the CB prospects, but I feel De Ligt is the only one that actually matches our needs and timeline. A potential World XI CB that also happens to fall in the age range of our core players. All top teams have one of these.

    I know the midfield needs another creator, but if we can't get an Eriksen type, then no point just getting another McT or Fred etc.

    I think our attack is actually the trickiest group to figure out. Is Lukaku good enough? Is Lukaku or Rashford our CF? Is Martial-Lukaku-Rashford consistently good enough or do they all blow too hot and cold? Have we put too much hope in Martial and Rashford who, despite their young age, have played the better part of 3 full seasons and still show many of the same glaring weaknesses? Lingard, even though he's not my fav, is the one guy I think we can be clear on. But he does not have the quality/output in the final third to be a regular starter.

    Signing a $100M teenager for the RW does seem fun, but I'm not even sure it answers any of those questions. It's a lot more hope, but no more certainty.
  3. Mar 13, 2019

    sam147 New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    593
    How long will a Pogba want to be playing with the likes of McTominay, Young and Fred? We need to sign 4 players that go straight into the lineup. A CB, so Smalling will move to back up like you say. A DM, so Matic gets benched. A RW, so Mata/Lingard get benched and a RB so Young gets benched. And I disagree, all top teams sign players for cover, Juventus are a fine example, they sign Can even though they have Matuidi, Pjanic, Bentancur. And now Aaron Ramsay is on the way. How about Bayern? they also sign players specifically for competition. Sir Alex signed Chicharito to make an impact of the bench. It is important to have the right players on the bench, rather than just filling them with random academy players, the odd academy talent is fine but there comes a point where it affects results. I believe it is feasible for a club like United, however Glazernomics are in full force, if any club can afford to spend 250-300m in a summer, Man United can. However, fans are now obsessed with youth players being promoted. The C092 was an anomaly, how many did Sir Alex promote to the first team apart from them? even more recently Wilson, Gribbin, Mcnair, Blackett and Borthwick Jackson have come and gone. Our current situation shows why we need a solid 5-6 signings, we go through an injury crises and we end up having massive gaps in the team. If Shaw gets injured next season, Ashley Young ends up starting. That is unacceptable for a title winning team. City have a squad with 16 quality players at a minimum. We dont even have a starting 11 without gaps at RB and RW.
  4. Mar 13, 2019

    Drz Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    810
    I really don't mind the signing, the little I have seen suggests a hard working winger with a quality right-foot. I feel he'd fit in well with Rashford and Lingard.
    As for world class potential... I'm not as sure as you are to qualify him as such; which is why I still don't necessarily agree with the price tag, but I feel there isn't much of a choice out there for that position.
    Would really like to know what the people that saw him perform vs Tottenham think.
  5. Mar 13, 2019

    Cantonagotmehere Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,009
    Location:
    Charm City, MD
    Thanks for the feedback. Really appreciate it.

    After the last match, I posted I'd like to see Matic benched for a midfield 3 of Fred (he was breaking up play all over the place), Herrera and Pogba. Pogba being the most attacking player. It seems like he gets dragged back too much lately for my taste.
  6. Mar 13, 2019

    sherrinford Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    354
    Fergie tended to have a good forward on the bench to change the game, but elsewhere boys like (Phil) Neville, O’shea and Quinton Fortune were not high quality players. United’s successful past sides were great because of the calibre of player in their strongest lineups. Man City have a fantastic starting eleven so it’s a bit different for them thinking about depth (though there’s still not many cases where they have bought a player as cover) - our best team is nowhere near as good.

    Many are suggesting we buy cover for Shaw and/or Matic. The poster I replied to wanted to see two backups brought in as part of our coming summer recruitment.

    The idea of bringing in players who will genuinely compete with/ replace our current starters and in doing so create natural cover/ rotation options is essentially what I said, no? Though I would say you want the incoming player to be a level above what we already have.
  7. Mar 13, 2019

    deadrevelz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,030
    I agree with most of that, though I wouldn't say no to an experienced solid right back even if he wasn't top quality because neither Young nor Dalot are defensively sound enough. Ideally we would buy de Ligt, then play Smalling at right back if we needed to.

    I think some of the debate here is really just about what our definition of 'cover / back up / depth' is. If we bought Neves for example, would you see that as back up for Matic or a replacement? Matic is more experienced and his peak is higher currently than Neves, but he's getting old and looks tired. Neves is young, hasn't played at a top club but will probably soon surpass Matic in terms of performances.
  8. Mar 13, 2019

    Jeffthered Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,100
    I love these players, but I am telling you, there are not enough goals in this team people..... no way. You need a No 9 to bang in goals, United have always had a player to bang in goals. 25 possibly 30. And the vast majority in the Prem and CL.

    Rashford is developing well, but needs to focus a little more on scoring goals. Goals, goals, goals.

    My thoughts? If Totteham flop, we go for Kane. Silly money, throw in a couple of players too. D Levy would consider it.
  9. Mar 13, 2019

    Siddharth New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    628
    Location:
    There are no strings on me ...
    I would like us to reduce our dependence on Pogba. Buying Christian Ericsson would be nice. Would cost 100 million, I guess.
  10. Mar 13, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    Alcantara maybe? he has been at Bayern for 5 seasons and just won the Bundesliga over and over. maybe he fancies a change. 2 years left on his contract also
  11. Mar 13, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    cheeky bid for Thiago. maybe 75-80 Mill. He is 27 and contract expires in 2021. Him Pogba and Herrera would be slick.
  12. Mar 13, 2019

    Tosicsleftpeg Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,769
    Location:
    Carlos Valderamas hair
    Has de Jong for Ajax signed for anyone yet? He looks absolutely class. Watched the Ajax game v Madrid and he dominated midfield I would love to see him here but he has Barca written all over him.
  13. Mar 13, 2019

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    3,741
    Location:
    Normally dark rooms
    have you learnt nothing from the Sanchez deal, you don't spend massive money on wingers close to 30, it will only end badly!
  14. Mar 14, 2019

    JEredDevil New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    In (1 CB, 1 RB 1 DM)
    CB - Koulibaly, 27 (strong and fast, has all the attributes necessary to succeed in EPL, wont come cheap though)
    - De Lijt,19 (one for the future, i would be surprised if he goes straight into the first team if he signs)
    - Varane,25 (most ideal signing for me but also the most unlikely one since Zidane would probably want to keep him)
    RB - Rafael,28 (he knows what it means to play for united, 1 of Fergie's signing who always gives his 100% on the pitch for us, has probably 2 or 3 good years left in him which Dalot could learn alot from)
    - Trippier,28 (great crosser of the ball from the right, which is what we are severely lacking. However, doing business with Levy has always proved difficult)
    DM - Kante,27 (probably the top DM in the world right now if Sarri knows how to use him properly. Looks to be surplus to requirements in Sarri's plans. Could be difficult to sign him because of Chelski transfer ban)

    Out
    Valencia - personally, i hope he is willing to stay with a reduced wage. His experience could prove vital in helping the youngsters break in. Could be used in League cup matches for our youth.
    Rojo - Shown glimpses of his potential during his time here but too injury prone. Great if we could sell now to recoup some of the fees paid for him.
    Smalling/Jones - Keep either 1 of them. Would prefer to keep Jones because of his "reckless" nature of defending. But too injury prone while Smalling makes too many errors. But if we get 2 CBs, we can ship them both out.
    Sanchez - Highest paid player, hasn't found his form in more than a year. Clearly isn't gonna do what RVP did for us. It's time for him to move on to China or MLS, hopefully some club there would be willing to take on his demands.

    I would be happy if this was our squad going into next season.
    GK - De Gea, Romero, Grant, Pereria
    Def - Dalot, Rafael, Varane, Lindelof, Bailly, Jones, Shaw, Valencia, Young, Fosu-Mensah, Taunzebe
    Mid - Kante, Matic, Herrera, Pereira, Fred, Pogba, Mata, McTominay, Garner
    FW
    - Rashford, Lingard, Lukaku, Martial, Gomes, Greenwood

    We will not be favorites for the title with this squad but i guess it should be good enough to be thereabouts come May 2020
  15. Mar 14, 2019

    laughtersassassin Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    873
    How can you in your right mind suggest going another summer without a right Winger. We haven't owned one that played since Nani.

    The fact we still play Mata there a lot is a testament to how desperate we are for one.
  16. Mar 14, 2019

    cathari Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    259
    Would love him at United.
  17. Mar 14, 2019

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    49,886
    Location:
    Krakow
    He's signed for Barcelona.
  18. Mar 14, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    725
    Location:
    England
    -----------------Herrera--------------------------
    ------------Thiago------Pogba------------------
    :drool: I like the look of that, why not..
  19. Mar 14, 2019

    cathari Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    259
    He would actually solve a lot of issues. Pogba wouldn't need to fall back to get the ball that often, and we'd have Matic and Fred for depth and other game plans.
  20. Mar 14, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    Would actually switch it up. Thiago sitting so he is the 1st point of contact for offload from our defence. Herrera has to be in the centre of the park as he is better at turning the ball over further forwards with his pressing. He can also make the occasional good through ball. Pogba can be freeeeeeeed. Muppet season has officially started
  21. Mar 14, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    725
    Location:
    England
    what do you think of?
    --------------Thiago-----Herrera------------

    ---------------------Pogba---------------------

    could that work?
  22. Mar 14, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    In some games yeah. Although I like Thiago in the Busquets role but modern day football us not about being rigid so that will be fine
  23. Mar 14, 2019

    An Irish Red New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    6,294
    Location:
    Ros Earcáin/Tuaim/an Baile Meánach
    If it was up to me I'd be trying to do something like this;

    One CB: De Ligt, Koulibaly or Umtiti (50 to 100 million approx.).
    One RB: Rafael (Free).
    One DM: Kante (70 million approx.).
    One CM: Rabiot (Free).
    One RW: Sancho, Dybala or Douglas Costa (50 to 130 million approx.).

    It would cost a lot but that's exactly what we need if we want to reach the level of the top clubs (just look at Real Madrid's squad, and yet they are still going to go crazy in the summer).
  24. Mar 14, 2019

    Patrick08 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    Messages:
    3,952
    Bayern does not sell for any price if they want to keep the player.
  25. Mar 14, 2019

    MaREDcus New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    1- who's the new manager:
    Ole

    2- which players do you sell: 135M
    Darmain (10M), Sanchez (Free), Lukaku (70M), Rojo (15M), Bailly (30M) and Valencia (Free), TFM (10M)

    3 - which players do you buy: Total ~260M (net spend - 125M)
    Varane (90M) or De Liget (90M), Rafael (free), Neves (70M) or Tanguy (70M), Richarlison (70M) or Sancho (90M)


    4- how does your 19/20 Man Utd side line up?

    DDG​
    Rafael Varane/De Liget Lindelof Shaw


    Herrera Tanguy/Neves Pogba


    Sancho/Richarlison Martial

    Rashford

    Subs:
    Romero
    Dalot
    Smalling
    Matic
    Lingard
    Greenwood
    Chong/Gomes
  26. Mar 14, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    with 2-years left on his contract, they have less bargaining power. They will remember losing Kroos for 25 mill. United should at least tap him up. put the feelers out. Its Bayerns last chance to get big money from him if he does not want to sign. In 12 months time, they will have little bargaining power as 6 months later he can sign a contract on a free.
  27. Mar 14, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    Just 3 signings required to challenge. much like Liverpool, the needs were exaggerated. Carragher pretty much said that Ole has reminded him how capable these players are and United are only a couple of players away.
    Ideally I would like;
    RWF Sancho/Pepe (could be our Mane)
    CM Thiago/Bruno Fernand/Rabiot
    RB Kimmich/Bissaka/

    we'd be able to challenge for the title as we can already beat most teams and this would enable us to cope better with our rivals since our right hand side is a source of weakness atm along with support in the middle for Pogba.
  28. Mar 14, 2019

    Patrick08 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    Messages:
    3,952
    I still doubt Bayern can be bullied into selling one of their main midfielder, and with us having pogba it would be hard to play them in same set up. Kroos went because he was not peps first choice . Also if he is available I think city will lure him more with pep connection.
  29. Mar 14, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    Would fit absolutely seamlessly. Pogba has played with nearly every type of midfielder and excelled. Pirlo, Vidal, Machisio, Herrera, Matic, Kherira, Kante, Matuidi etc. all different types. I don't know what you are getting at but maybe you can explain?

    Bayern were bullied into selling Kroos as stated previously. Obviously it all depends on whether the player himself wants to come and he might not even be interested.
  30. Mar 14, 2019

    Jeffthered Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,100
    Someone mentioned Thiago.. now that IS a player I would love at OT. He would be perfect, and give Pogs some creative support, and ball 'leadership' capacity (receive the ball, get us playing, moving the ball, seeing the pass etc.. a kind of Modric role....). However, I know Pep loves him (that would be interesting with B Silva, D Silva and Phil Foden... so maybe, if he is available, we may have a sniff?

    We need a few top players. McGuire... Thiago... a top goalscoring forward.. because even though I am loving what Lukaku is doing, can he maintain this? I hope so. But it is a step up for him. But I WANT him to become that great, globally renowned No 9. Rashford needs to focus on scoring more goals.
  31. Mar 14, 2019

    wattsy7 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2015
    Messages:
    98
    de gea/grant/kovar
    clyne/dalot
    skriniar/smalling
    lindelof/tuanzebe
    shaw/young
    matic/jones
    winks/herrera
    pogba/fred
    sancho/lingard/chong
    rashford/lukaku/hernandez
    martial/sanchez/gomes

    in: sancho, winks, skriniar, clyne, hernandez (if willing to be back up), maybe kane if we’re willing to go all out

    out: romero, rojo, valencia, mata, wilson, o’hara, dearnley, willock, sang, whelen, taylor, warren, maybe sanchez

    loan out: pereira, henderson, bailly (really needs to mature), mitchell, b-jackson, mensah, olosunde, mctominay, andreas

    ole in charge obviously, unless it somehow goes terribly wrong from now til end of the season

    these would be my decisions if the season was to end now, i’m sure between now and the end of the season my mind will change on a few players
  32. Mar 14, 2019

    laughtersassassin Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    873
    We need a minimum 4 players and with how cheap the Glazer's are we need to be smart with our spending.

    For me I'd get In;
    Toby for 25 Mil
    Rabiot for Free (10 mil sign on fee approx)
    Wan Biasaka 50 rising to 70 with add one
    Sancho 100

    So total spend of just under 200 mil for 4 starters. Granted Rabiot is a knob but he is very good so for 10 mil I think it's worth it. Not getting a better midfielder than him for anything under 50 so.

    At the end of the day we need starts for the 4 positions I have mentioned. Anything less we contjnco being a joke.
  33. Mar 14, 2019

    laughtersassassin Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    873
    No one is challenging for the league with a starting partnership of Smalling Lindelof.

    Get a real dependable defender beside Lindelof and we are talking. Smalling can be back up.
  34. Mar 14, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    4,064
    How about Ben Yedder as a backup to our front line?
  35. Mar 14, 2019

    Jezpeza New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    280
    Personally, i’d Break the bank for Sancho, and then sign Wan Bissaka, use Fulham’s relegation to get Sessegnon at knock down price as he can play left back or wing, and then go for a centre back or more mobile dm.
  36. Mar 14, 2019

    Svartzonker New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    61
    Not good enough in my opinion.

    We already have Lukaku and Rashford for the striker position. If are looking to add the player has to be absolutely world class. No idea adding a player who clearly is not better than the options we already have. Adding a world class striker would also mean we would have to get rid of Lukaku.

    The only world class striker that could be available is Icardi. A south american nutcase in all aspects. All scenarios from becoming a club legend to being the biggest flop ever would be possible.

    At the moment we have bigger fish to fry so I would not focus on getting a striker, give Lukaku and Rashford another season to develop with Ole. I’m sure Ole has a thing or two he can teach to them.
  37. Mar 14, 2019

    sherrinford Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    354
    That’s exactly what I’m trying to avoid - I want every signing to be ‘a Pogba’, and that kind of quality is typically expensive, and - realistically - beyond what we can do in one summer to fix all perceived issues. Expecting us to go out and spend £250 - £300 is where the ‘entitled child’ comment came from. We should spend a very healthy amount in the next window but we’ve never came close to those sort of figures. I would love for us to go out this summer and buy De Ligt/ Koulibaly, [insert big-name right backs here](because I can’t think of any), Neves/ Thiago/ Kante, and Jadon Sancho. That is a massive ask, a dream... a fantasy really - it just won’t happen. If it was possible for us to sign De Ligt and Sancho but use our entire budget, then for me you do that and forgo the others as opposed to settling for lesser players across the board so that strengthening all positions is viable.

    Juventus and Bayern are elite teams with strong first choice lineups. That is not us, and that gap doesn’t close wasting funds on players for cover. Also, Can and Ramsay were out of contract so that’s not really the same is it - Rabiot is someone we should be looking at.

    I don’t know why you continue bringing up academy players when we have established that we both don’t expect many successful first team players to emerge from there.

    Man City won the league with Zinchenko and Delph covering at left back last season, and are in the driving seat this year too. Isn’t Milner the first player to cover full back at Liverpool too? The other team in contention for the league this season...

    In isolation an experienced, solid right back might seem like a no-brainer, but who and for how much? I don’t think that’s worth any reasonable sum of money really. There are many other proposed buys that seem great without wider considerations - an attacking left back, a playmaker deep in midfield, a no.10, all would be very useful and provide something we don’t have, but you wouldn’t want those signings impacting our business at right wing (clearly - the most important signing) and probably centre half (most necessary of the rest, in my opinion). It’s all a matter of prioritising what’s feasible.

    I would have to look at Neves as a backup I think, if Matic is currently better. Why not look to buy him if and when he does actually surpass Matic’s performance level, in conjunction with the Serbian getting older and less able?
  38. Mar 14, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    Our current form is already title form. City won the league with Otamendi and Stones.....
  39. Mar 15, 2019

    JEredDevil New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Yeah i get that but with Ole's at the helm, our attack has been pretty good so far (could be a false dawn) i cant see the Glazers breaking the bank for a RW that would fit into the team immediately. A lot of talk about Sancho and Bale but with their prices, it's too big a gamble for me.With Lukaku/Rashford/Martial/Lingard and Pogba/Mata supporting them. I dare say that our attack is probably just behind City and Liverpool, only lacking in consistency.

    Our current defence has to be considered the worst among the top 6. And with De Gea winning POTY 4 of the last 5 seasons says alot about our defence. A back four of Young, Smalling, Lindelof and Shaw is simply not good enough to compete.

    Depending on our transfer budget for the summer, which i reckon to be at most 150mill, and if a huge chunk of that is going to a RW, i'm afraid it wont improve us much. If we managed to improve our backline this summer, next season should be a race between us, City and liverpool. That being said, a RW is definitely next on my list. If only Dortmund or PSG would be open to a swap deal for Sancho and Mbappe. We could give them Sanchez and Smalling in a 2-for-1 deal. :smirk:
  40. Mar 15, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    4,064
    Hugely overrated in my opinion. The case of a backup striker is that he is a backup because his level is lower than your starters.