The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Saliph, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. Apr 18, 2012

    bazalini The Baz Man - He made us laugh 2000 - 2012

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    Levels/techniques/methods

    Its just words. WHat the feck needs elaborated on - Its black and white. He was isolated, he was on medication, he was into gaming, he followed a dress code etc etc

    I have honestly tried to put forward my own opinions on this matter. I obviously am viewed as winding up when I am not.

    I'll leave you to it.
  2. Apr 18, 2012

    Laphroaig Full Member

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    You're throwing a strop and claim to have put me and Pete on ignore, but I'll give you a short reply in the belief that you're just feigning: These methods (I genuinely didn't quite understand what you meant by 'levels') were employed by Breivik himself to achieve his goal, and I really don't think it makes sense to say that you can brainwash yourself. Does it? Brainwashing, in my understanding, is when someone else manipulates you to buy into certain thoughts. So my question to you would be: Do you think these techniques were forced upon him by someone else, or do you think one can brainwash oneself? The former doesn't seem likely based on everything we've heard, the latter would imply a brand new concept of brainwashing. I can't quite see a third option based on what you've said, but feel free to add one.
  3. Apr 18, 2012

    Neutral BTV

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    Yeah, alright...dickhead. Gunning down innocent people in cold blood takes backbone.

    Why didn't you make your point by gunning down armed personnel...after all they too are helping to protect the multiculturalism you hate so much.
  4. Apr 18, 2012

    Jimy_Hills_Chin Desperately wants to be ITK

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    That has no relevance to anything.

    Who cares about his intellect?

    'Evil' people fall into all categories on the spectrum of intellect. From pure speculation, Breivik seems to me to be at least higher average in intellignece. I am sure that some people are reluctant to attribute intelligence to Breivik as they feel that it is some sort of praise but it really is a redundant issue.
  5. Apr 18, 2012

    Smores Full Member

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    Psychopaths fall higher in the spectrum of intellect, that is as long as the task doesn't require emotional intelligence. However, the fact that the dude started crying at his own campaign video suggests to me he isn't a psychopath anyway.

    Putting someone like that in prison for 21 years is a joke, he's not going to repent or feel remorse as there's something neurologically wrong with him, either kill the cnut or stick him in a mental hospital so he can get the help he'd need to fit in with society.
  6. Apr 18, 2012

    bazalini The Baz Man - He made us laugh 2000 - 2012

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    Jimmy, you are proving my point that many raised, that he was an intellect and we were shot down claiming we did not follow the case, knew nothing what we were talking about.

    Anyhow, interesting developments this morning in relation to his English contacts. ABB talks about a detailed plan which he worked with his English "mentors" to seize power of Europe.
  7. Apr 18, 2012

    iSparky Likes Dags. but not as much as his Dad

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    What still fascinates me to this day was the footage from when they brought him back to Utoya to re enact that day and he took them through all of the details, watching him do that and the manner in which he did it was astounding and horrifying at the same time. The police with him at the time said it was almost eerie how calm he was during the whole proceeding.
  8. Apr 18, 2012

    Smores Full Member

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    Well that's what psychopathy is, they don't have an emotional/moral reaction to fear/disturbing cues. They can cheat lie detector tests etc as they don't have the normal reaction. IIRC it's something to do with the amygdala but whether it's neurological or psychological anyone who can go out and kill children like that should be executed.
  9. Apr 18, 2012

    bazalini The Baz Man - He made us laugh 2000 - 2012

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  10. Apr 18, 2012

    Neutral BTV

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    #Breivik: "I was very surprised that I survived that day. I had no other plans for what to do"
  11. Apr 18, 2012

    iSparky Likes Dags. but not as much as his Dad

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    Prosecutor has finished questioning and defence about to take over. Breivik claiming there are other cells in europe and norway;

    Prosecutor: Can the two other cells strike in Oslo any day now? Yes, says #Breivik.

    Court should free me or sentence me to death. I do not accept 21 years in prison. #Breivik
  12. Apr 18, 2012

    Skywarden Full Member

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  13. Apr 18, 2012

    Neutral BTV

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    I'm sorry what?
  14. Apr 18, 2012

    Neutral BTV

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    #Breivik: "I am a militant Christian. To prevent dechristianisation of Europe is very important"

    I hope from this point on, he'll be referred to as Christian Terrorist Anders Breivik
  15. Apr 18, 2012

    Skywarden Full Member

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    Good, as in "fascinating."
  16. Apr 18, 2012

    Neutral BTV

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    Wasn't questioning your post...I quoted the post to get the link in, but it left the link out :lol:
  17. Apr 18, 2012

    iSparky Likes Dags. but not as much as his Dad

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    I am tired now. It will take me 30 minutes to answer your question. Can we take this tomorrow, asks #Breivik.
  18. Apr 18, 2012

    An Irish Red Full Member

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    I haven't been following the trial closely so I haven't seen the incident you're talking about. Anders Breivik crying during the trial doesn't prove conclusively whether he's a psychopath or not, unfortunately. Psychopaths are chameleons, who have been well aware of their sub-standard emotional development since they were very young and, as such, they tend to be brilliant at masking emotions and covering up the fact that they are different.

    They're extremely manipulative people and lead lives designed to cover up their weaknesses and portray them as they want to be portrayed. There's an interview on youtube with Ted Bundy, just before he was executed, which displays the manipulative capabilities of the psychopath.

    Judging by Breiviks manifesto (which I read shortly after the massacre) I would guess that he was a malignant narcissist (basically narcissism/anti-social personality disorder). He suffers from delusions of grandeur (for example he's not an individual who butchered civilians.. he's a 'soldier' in a war) and writes about himself like he is a higher being operating on a higher plain of existence. The contempt he displays for other people is very clear in his writing, he looks down on people and sees them as being weaker or less capable. The bit I found most interesting was when he referred to the aftermath of his attack and described how he would be a hero someday, held up as a 'before his time' revolutionary. It was almost like he convinced himself that everyone shared his beliefs but that he was the only one 'brave' enough to "take part in the war". Although psychopaths tend to lack morality and have extremely shallow emotional development (as well as narcissistic traits) they don't always combine it with sadistic personality traits in the way that Breivik did.

    After reading his manifesto that would be my guess (malignant narcissist) but I'm going to stop rambling now. I would be very, very surprised if he was clinically insane though.
  19. Apr 18, 2012

    Laphroaig Full Member

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    That's a good summary of Breivik. What definitive traits do psychopaths have?. I don't think the reports have come to that conclusion, although I'm not certain. He has not (tried to or been able to?) manipulate others, in fact his social shortcomings have been a reoccurring theme.
  20. Apr 18, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    If anyone wants an interesting (albeit ever so slightly tongue in cheek) and enjoyable read about psychopaths, I would strongly recommend this book.

  21. Apr 18, 2012

    Smores Full Member

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    Interesting post mate. I agree it was a stupid comment, I did think afterwards he'd probably be wise enough to display emotions for his own purpose.

    I'm currently reading a book involving the neurological aspects of decision making (covering morality, psychopaths etc) and I find it disconcerting that the neurological makeup can cause immoral beings. Perhaps it should actually be a comfort in that normal healthy individuals aren't capable of such atrocities.
  22. Apr 18, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Well it all depends on your definition of "normal and healthy". He's unlikely to be suffering from a treatable mental illness, that's for sure.

    That's the thing with personality disorders. They're not really illnesses. They're just a particular cluster of some of the personality traits that define every one of us, taken to an extreme.
  23. Apr 18, 2012

    niMic Curvy gay

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    Do they really, though? Or is it another misconception?
  24. Apr 18, 2012

    Smores Full Member

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    Well the book that I'm reading cites studies showing that they are, I've not read those studies in detail so I'm kind of taking the word of the author making that statement.

    They have the benefit of thinking purely logically while the 'normal' person also uses they're emotional instincts in every decision. It depends on the activity as to whether that's helpful or not, you need both aspects of your brain in most activities. An IQ test? Probably not so much.
  25. Apr 18, 2012

    FortBoyard Full Member

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    Assuming that all things are equal, who'd want to
    Yeah and for those of you who want the intellectual version:

    [​IMG]
  26. Apr 18, 2012

    niMic Curvy gay

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    I suppose that's a reasonable hypothesis.

    I don't think the difference is as big as the common perception is, though. When you think about it, it makes sense that the more famous psychopaths are very intelligent. The reasons they are famous are usually for things that less intelligent psychopaths wouldn't be able to pull off. I'd also think that TV/movies has pushed the common perception a little bit further that way.
  27. Apr 18, 2012

    Jimy_Hills_Chin Desperately wants to be ITK

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    Wearing a pin stripe suit in a mental hospital probably isn't the best way to go about convincing people that you are sane.
  28. Apr 18, 2012

    VidaRed Full Member

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    Under cross-examination, Breivik said: "There are only two just and fair outcomes of this trial - acquittal or capital punishment. I consider 21 years of prison as a pathetic punishment.

    Asked if he wanted the court to give him the death penalty, he replied: "No, but I would have respected it. I would not recognise 21 years of prison, it's ridiculous."

    Breivik was also questioned about his religious beliefs by a lawyer for the victims.

    "Well, I am a militant Christian; to prevent the de-Christianisation of Europe is very important," he said.

    "But this does not mean we want to introduce a Christian theocracy. We are not Christian fundamentalists. I believe in God and I believe in a life after death."

    Answering questions from a judge he described himself as an "anti-Nazi".

    "A National Socialist would say, 'Norway for the Norwegians'. I am more liberal, I would accept 2% perhaps (of the population not being ethnically Norwegian)."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17752189
  29. Apr 18, 2012

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    Similar views to Al Qaeda.

    If he was a Muslim, Islam would be vilified instead of his hate filled murdering twisted ways.
  30. Apr 18, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    If the muslim did it because of his belief in Islamic scripture and doctrine, then of course Islam would be vilified. I don't think you can make that argument for Breivik's supposed Christian faith, especially considering what he writes in his manifesto. Seems fairly obvious to me that he was motivated by his extreme right-wing paranoia and delusions, and called himself a Christian as a sort of cultural affiliation.
  31. Apr 18, 2012

    niMic Curvy gay

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    Another lie from his Manifesto, then. He claimed to not believe in a personal God, but doing it for cultural reasons. Either that, or he's lying now. It's quite pitiful, the way he tried to create an image of himself in his manifesto that simply isn't true.

    I think he got what he wanted when he was captured, and interrogated. He felt important. But from what I've seen and heard of how the trial is going, he's liking it less and less. The lawyers aren't just letting him quote is manifesto, they're contradicting his words, etc. This is the true punishment for Breivik, making him realize his story isn't believed anymore.
  32. Apr 18, 2012

    Saliph Banned

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    Yes, he's exposed more and more.
  33. Apr 18, 2012

    bazalini The Baz Man - He made us laugh 2000 - 2012

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    Its the first time anyone in Authority has questioned his beliefs. A chink in his armour has been opened.

    One thing that has not been explored yet is the way he shot his victims. Why the need to use 2 guns in shooting some victims. That does not fit with the profile of the controlled person he is trying to display. There is something additionally psychotic about the way he choose to kill people.
  34. Apr 18, 2012

    niMic Curvy gay

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    He shot people, and then he went back and shot them again, to make sure they were dead.
  35. Apr 18, 2012

    bazalini The Baz Man - He made us laugh 2000 - 2012

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  36. Apr 19, 2012

    Laphroaig Full Member

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    Yeah. The manifesto seems to be the invented "truth" that he wants to stick with, but it's hard when he can't read from it. I don't recall exactly what the topic was, but he was asked once to try and remember an event (a meeting perhaps), to which he replied something like "I can't remember what it says in the manifesto". The prosecutor then asked him to try to remember what actually had happened. Pretty telling, I thought.
  37. Apr 19, 2012

    Skywarden Full Member

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    Following his hearing now, he claims his biggest dream was to play WoW. He played 16h a day, and still didn't achieve anything of note if I recall correctly looking at his armory. He also mentioned Modern Warfare.

    He really is provocative - he smiles at and provokes the prosecutor and constantly trying to project himself as if he's in total control of the situation.
  38. Apr 19, 2012

    CassiusClaymore Full Member

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    None of your business mate
    I don't know why but this really made me :lol:
  39. Apr 19, 2012

    Skywarden Full Member

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    Trivial point, I know. :)
  40. Apr 19, 2012

    CassiusClaymore Full Member

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    None of your business mate
    It's the idea that you checked his stats out and scoffed at him that tickles me.

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