The "We Don't Actually Need A Midfielder" Thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by KingEric7, Aug 20, 2010.

  1. Aug 20, 2010
    #41

    Ekeke Full Member

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    As long as Scholes coninutes to play well and stays available to be selected, we're fine. If he gets injured, suspended or he isnt playing as well as he's started the season then we could be in a spot of bother. Thankfully we're well covered in just about every other position so we should get by.
  2. Aug 20, 2010
    #42

    Devil may care Full Member

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    It all depends on if Anderson and Gibson and Cleverly have enough once Scholes and Giggs go, it's 3 big ifs right now.
  3. Aug 20, 2010
    #43

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

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    That isn't this year's problem.
  4. Aug 20, 2010
    #44

    Devil may care Full Member

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    Having a midfielder of the Scholes mould in now to learn from him before he leaves would be a good move IMO.
  5. Aug 20, 2010
    #45

    Devilton Banned

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    Our team as a whole is strong. If there is a weakness, it is in the center of midfield. If Scholes is out for an extended period we have Carrick, Gibson and Anderson who have to pick up the playmaking role. For varying reasons, none of these look capable of doing this on a consistent basis. I hope Carrick comes back strong this year because as it stands we are overly dependent on the genius of a couple of 35+ year old legends.

    Start of the season is a good reason to be optimist. United have looked good in preseason, and there's no alarm bells ringing, but there's a long season ahead of us. If Hargreaves had been able to come back I'd feel a lot better going in without a quality midfielder, but he's not so I'm just a little concerned if we have an injury crisis like we did last year with our defense.

    A weak midfield for united is a relative term. Most teams in the world would love to have our midfield, but if we're genuinely competing on all front then I feel we should have added an extra midfielder (because Hargreaves doesn't look like he will ever put on a red shirt again).
  6. Aug 20, 2010
    #46

    Devilton Banned

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    ...or he might do a runner back to Brazil.

    We hope it's the former, but lets face it... you wouldn't put your house on it would you?
  7. Aug 20, 2010
    #47

    7even Resident moaner, hypocrite and moron

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    If he doesn't return to the first team in a couple of month it's over and we need a replacement. At the moment our only genuine defensive midfielder is Carrick, who btw was back to normal against Chelsea.

    I think a reborn Carrick and a fit Ando is like two new players.
  8. Aug 20, 2010
    #48

    Devilton Banned

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    That's a bit of a cliche, and I'm not sure anyone buys it. I have a feeling like Berbatov, Carrick is going to have a good year. I hope Anderson does as well but I'm 50/50 when it comes to him. I'll need to see him play, and it's been a while since he was on the field so it might take a month or so to get him back into the groove.

    We really needed Hargreaves back because like you say, Fletcher needs some competition to keep him playing at his best (there were times last season when Fletch didn't look as hungry as he usually does). The way I see it, there's still room in our midfield for one more player.

    But who knows, maybe Gibson is the man to fill that void...I have doubts, but lets see what happens because it looks like SAF might have closed up shop for this transfer window.
  9. Aug 20, 2010
    #49

    Ole's_toe_poke Ole_Aged_Slow_Poke

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    I think we certainly have enough numbers. But someone like an Ozil would've given us something a bit different. Someone with creativity in the final third. Scholes' form has been great but we can't expect him to play like this all season
  10. Aug 20, 2010
    #50

    marcus agrippa Full Member

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    :confused:

    Yet we had the best defensive record in the league, conceding the fewest goals.
  11. Aug 20, 2010
    #51

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    our midfield is good enough to win most games every week in the Prem, but once it comes up against a quality side with decent tactics in an important competition/match...

    i.e. Barca, Inter, possibly even Real but let's see how their season goes first

    and that's the problem, a club of United's stature's midfield should not just be good enough to get by in their domestic league. Our midfield needs to be one of the absolute bests. And right now it is not. If Scholes or Fletcher gets injured or has an off night, the rest of the midfield is severely affected.
  12. Aug 20, 2010
    #52

    Shimo Full Member

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    Problem is there weren't players that are available that would have helped compete against the likes of Barca, Inter, Chelsea better than we have right now. Ozil won't make our midfield that much better when it comes to playing the absolute bests.

    Of the players not already on those teams - Schweinsteiger comes to mind for me that would make our central midfield better and as strong as any other out there and he isn't exactly available.

    Names like Defour, Hamsik etc have been thrown about and they might give us more depth but, they don't improve us much if at all.

    Yes we should be one of the best out there in all departments and maybe right now we aren't in CM but, we certainly can say in every other department we are right up there. Forward, Wings, Defense, GK - as good as any out there.
  13. Aug 20, 2010
    #53

    x42bn6 Full Member

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    We need a second creative option, as we don't have enough there at the moment. It doesn't have to be an Özil - arguably all those midfielder needs is to ideally be able to play in a 4-4-2 to make use of our hundreds of strikers.

    Yes we have Scholes but we may not have Scholes (or Giggs) next season.
  14. Aug 20, 2010
    #54

    Laphroaig Full Member

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    We condeded more than in our three winning seasons. And you'd have to look at the games in which we needlessly wasted points. Vs Villa (h) and Fulham we had midfielders in defense and PiG. Vs Birmingham, Everton and Villa (a) we were without three of our first choices in the back four. Plus you'd have to consider a reliable and trusted defense's effect on the rest of the team, mainly the midfield.
  15. Aug 20, 2010
    #55

    Chorley1974 Lady Ole

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    We need a young creative midfielder to learn from Scholes and deputise. Although we have numbers in central if all are fit, we don't have anyone creative enough as back up for Scholes. IMO
  16. Aug 20, 2010
    #56

    marcus agrippa Full Member

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    So we conceded more than in our three winning seasons. Fact is, we still conceded less than our main challengers for the title. I'm actually curious to know how many point we dropped during that torrid time. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't that many.

    There were other factors than our defence involved. We should've beaten Chelsea away, though we probably deserved the loss at home, though that came courtesy of a refereeing error.

    I just don't think injuries to the defence was as determining a factor.
  17. Aug 20, 2010
    #57

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    We dropped a load of crucial points during our injury crisis. Points we would usually pick up. The games against Villa and Fulham were amongst the most annoying.

    As for the two games against Chelsea. We deserved more than we got. On another day, with a different ref, things would have turned out very differently.

    The funny thing about last season is that our midfield held it's own in big games better than it has done in title-winning seasons over the last few years, especially against Chelsea.
  18. Aug 20, 2010
    #58

    Shimo Full Member

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    During our defensive crisis I know we lost to Fulham and Villa (at home). Fletcher was playing right back that day - maybe even a normal right back wouldn't have stopped it but, the cross came in from Villa's left for Gabby's goal.

    Not sure if we lost any other points but, also one of the problems caused by the defensive crisis was the loss of form of Carrick. We've all said Carrick had a poor season last year. He didn't start the season well, SAF insisted on chopping/changing the starting CM - when Carrick finally started playing well - there was even a comment from SAF saying it usually takes Carrick a while to get going into the season but, now is the time he normally comes good and you can see that - soon after he was playing in defense and for some reason never regained consistent form after that.

    If you look even Fletcher had a few poor games after he went back to MF but, he then was able to get back into a groove

    Carrick's lack of form obviously had an impact on the rest of the season for us and I attribute the defensive problems as a result.

    It wasn't all defensive problems though - we had a real crap game against Sunderland and Everton - at Birmingham we looked poor - all games we shouldn't have dropped points. Not to mention both Chelsea games where maybe should have at least got 1 point.

    Overall though think our defensive crisis caused the most significant problems.
  19. Aug 20, 2010
    #59

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    While I agree with you that adding Ozil doesn't automatically elevate our midfield to the best, it does improve it by a lot.

    If mid-term form is anything to go by, Ozil is already an instant upgrade of quality from Park/Carrick/Anderson. I know Carrick plays an entirely different role, but there will be matches where we go up against a top notch midfield with excellent tactics. We need as much quality on the field as possible during those matches. Because then it becomes a chess match of the side that can better execute their manager's tactics, and the more quality a player has the better he will be able to execute the tactics.

    Not to mention United are in deep need of more footballers that can pull a goal out of his arse when United are playing shitty. As of right now we only have Rooney who is capable of this.
  20. Aug 20, 2010
    #60

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    every club deals with injuries, it's how the rest of the squad copes. Having more quality in the midfield doesn't necessarily guarantee that a defensive injury crisis will be mitigated...but last season proved that not having enough quality in the midfield sure as hell wasn't enough to cope with the injuries to the defense
  21. Aug 20, 2010
    #61

    Shimo Full Member

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    Guess we'll never really know but, I never thought Ozil would be that great an improvement to our current squad. A player that can certainly be quality for us long term when Giggs is gone as I see him mostly as a replacement for what Giggs does today - play behind striker or on the left wing.

    Against top sides if you consider he'd either play on the wing (replacing Nani/Giggs) or perhaps the Park/Giggs role of being in behind the striker - I don't thin he is that much better than any of those players.

    As for people that can get a goal out of nothing - I'd say Nani is a strong candidate for that and certainly Berbatov has that quality. Even Chicha might be for us if you are talking about Ozil adding that quality to our side as both would come in with little bit unknown for our side/league.

    But, that ship has sailed for whatever reason.
  22. Aug 20, 2010
    #62

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    That last sentence makes literally no sense at all. Whichever way you spin the double negative, it remains absurd.
  23. Aug 20, 2010
    #63

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    I guess the only real way to see is to just play out the season and revisit this thread next summer.

    I strongly disagree with you on Berbatov being capable of producing magic in dire situations. There have been many, many matches during his time here when United desperately needed a goal from Berbatov and he did not deliver.
  24. Aug 20, 2010
    #64

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    :rolleyes:

    our midfield is the same from last year, which wasn't enough to cope with the defensive injuries

    with addition of more quality, it doesn't 100% guarantee United would be able to cope with another injury crisis, but it sure does increase the likelihood.

    better to have more quality and depth than less of it, when is this not an ideal choice?
  25. Aug 20, 2010
    #65

    Shimo Full Member

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    What Pogue said.

    Are you saying that because we used our 2 best CM in defense at some point - it proved that we weren't strong enough in midfield?

    For Villa game we gave up a goal to poor defending by Fletcher on the right.

    For Fulham game even though Scholes gave up the ball, Carrick was slow to close down Murphy for the opener and Zamora's goal was again due to being weak in defense.

    Are you suggesting that if we had good enough midfield cover when Carrick/Fletch played in defense that it would have masked our defensive crisis?

    Edit: Well 25 man squad rules means you can't build enough cover for any kind of crisis of the proportions we faced last year. Plus we've added Smalling as a defender.
  26. Aug 20, 2010
    #66

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    maybe in some of those instances if we had Mascherano/Essien/Cambiasso instead of Fletcher and Carrick, those defensive mistakes would not have been made

    maybe if we had Xavi instead of Scholes the ball would not have been given away
  27. Aug 20, 2010
    #67

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    Barca's midfield would be much happier drawing our midfield during the knockout stages of the UCL than say.... Inter's or Chelsea's.

    But I get it, there are some of you that have confidence in our midfield the way it is right now and that's fine. I'll gladly eat my words next summer if United sweep all competitions and win the sextuple. But if they don't... there better not be any excuses like all this "defensive injury crisis" mumbo jumbo
  28. Aug 20, 2010
    #68

    Shimo Full Member

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    Do you really want United to pick midfielders in mind that perhaps if 9 out 10 defenders are out hurt - that they'll be able to slot into defense without any kind of issues?

    Besides - when Essien was relegated to defense for Chelsea, they missed him quite a bit in midfield. Look at any team out there and tell me if you put their 2 best midfielders in defense - do they have our quality in back up?

    Put Xavi/Iniesta as center backs. Put Gerrard/Masherano in defense.

    No other squad would have even been able to put the quality we put out in CM had they had to do the same as us. So not sure what you are expecting from United - we are better positioned than anyone else and still we suffered.
  29. Aug 20, 2010
    #69

    sajeev Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol:
  30. Aug 20, 2010
    #70

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    let's just talk FM style at the moment, if you could add 1 footballer to the current roster of your choice... would it be a forward/midfielder/defender and why?
  31. Aug 20, 2010
    #71

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    I laughed too once it was posted ;)
  32. Aug 20, 2010
    #72

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    I agree. That is why we have more than 6 on our books :D

    I couldn't resist. Sorry.
  33. Aug 20, 2010
    #73

    friendlytramp More full of crap than a curry house toilet

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    If carrick comes good then We're ok as he can fill in adequately for scholes

    --------------scholes/carrick-------------
    Fletch/gibbo----------------park/ando

    Plus giggs and cleverley is decent enough.

    Its once we lose giggs and scholes that we start to look light. Next year.
  34. Aug 20, 2010
    #74

    sajeev Full Member

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    hmm... while you had a point, it was so hypothetical that i thought to laugh was the best response ;)
  35. Aug 20, 2010
    #75

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    Cleverly hasn't even put in a season yet in the United midfield alongside the rest of the midfielders, let alone played against top quality competition and the way those sides line up and coping with tactics that top quality sides use against United....

    yet somehow some people think he is "good enough" now
  36. Aug 20, 2010
    #76

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    Truth is, we will only be in a spot of bother if we lost both Scholes and Giggs to long term injury. For they are our most creative brains in midfield. But its not like we would be totally useless.
  37. Aug 20, 2010
    #77

    Shimo Full Member

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    IAll summer it has been midfielder for me but, not Ozil.

    My list in order of first choice : Schweinsteiger, Essien, Sneijder, Fabregas, Alonso.

    I've not included the likes of Iinesta because I hates him and have similar feeling about Fab but, I prefer Fabregas.

    Why any of those? Because any of those can play either in a midfield 2 or in a midfield 3. All are what I think are complete mids - can play in several different roles and can score goals.

    I think any of those would immensely improve us - any of the other names out there am not sure would.

    With Anderson coming back I am slightly less concerned but, I am still in that him and Fletch are the only 2 midfielders that I would say are strong engine type mids - that can press and play box to box through an entire game. For that I hope we do consider a Lass or Merieles bid before the window closes but, if it doesn't happen then just hope we don't get Fletch/Ando hurt for the big games.
  38. Aug 20, 2010
    #78

    ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY

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    See that's the thing, I agree with you about most of that. I too would add a midfielder if I could add ANY one footballer to our current roster. I am not worried about the quality or depth of our forwards or defense, I am concerned about the quality and depth of our midfield. Having the best midfield in any matchup is the difference.

    United do need another midfielder of true world class quality, just so happens there isn't one (or isn't one anymore in my opinion) available in the market.
  39. Aug 20, 2010
    #79

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    In all honesty the only midfield role we look a bit short in is the one Fletcher plays. With Hargreaves a constant crock, if Fletcher got injured we'd be in a spot of bother. That is why the Meireles link/interest kinda made plenty of sense.

    But even if in such a scenario we had signed no one, a kid like Clevrely or especially Corey Evans could shock us and make play for their future in such a role.
  40. Aug 20, 2010
    #80

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

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    I think we could do with a clear first choice creative midfielder to play alongside whoever wins between Fletch and Carrick. Can't see any on the market though, really, and we have plenty of options, especially as Scholes is still god-like, Giggs is still excellent, and Anderson is very promising.

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