Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by simonhch, May 28, 2019.
When you think the unthinkable, does it become the thinkable?
The subject is unthinkable I'm afraid.
I bet you know, deep down inside - if you’re willing to be absolutely honest with yourself - you’d be full of excitement about this season if you supported a team with the squad, manager and prospects of, say, Liverpool or City. And that’s despite all the perfectly valid reasons you give for feeling jaded about the modern game.
Trying to ignore the fact that United are at a low ebb, with little or no hope of a great/exciting season ahead in a rant about not wanting to watch football is massively disingenuous
Yup. Have a dig through the archives on here and you’ll find a distinct lack of threads bemoaning the modern game before/during seasons when United were in a position of strength. Funny that.
Now this guy is capable of being honest with himself...
Also worth noting your club’s decline is further down the road than United’s. Your current state of apathy is probably a glimpse of the future for us all.
Not if you really think about it.
So, for you, the gulf between international and club football has become insurmountable?
I must be honest, on the face of it there isn't much of a difference to me. The football is virtually indistinguishable. The players seemingly give their all and in some instances they actually appear to be more committed to their club. A World Cup vs Champions League? Clearly the difference to you is massive, but I'm not seeing it.
Has money changed everything? If yes, when did it happen? When the first player was bought? When Cruyff went to Barca in '73 for £922,200? The nineties? When Chelsea was bought? What was the final nail in the coffin?
Look what I've found when searching "has no soul anymore":
F1 just has no soul anymore!
The Galaxy S5 has no soul anymore!
The pub has changed landlords and has no soul anymore.
World of Warcraft has no soul anymore.
Rugby has no soul anymore.
Apple has no soul anymore.
Dragonball has no soul anymore.
Nothing has a soul anymore. A soul?
Maybe the problem is that people cannot deal with all the information coming out of the club. Social media. Forums such as this. We continually hear about the "business side" of the club and forget to just enjoy the football. Things are really not that bad. It is, however, all in the eye of the beholder.
get the feeling football would have its soul back if we made some exciting signings and made progress next year
its normal to feel this way... it's been a tough few years for United fans - relatively speaking it's not been that bad
remember how much we loved football in December/January
I guarantee you that if United were playing good football and were competing for trophies you would not be feeling this way.
It's OK, we are human after all and United's current situation does make you feel hopeless. Who would want to have this feeling of despair watching a team that once brought so much joy to our lives!
sadly that might be a long wait
Why follow something that makes you depressed and downbeat? Owners that are parasites, a ceo on a power trip, no direction, no idea, Lingard on a 100k a week acting like a toddler.
Football is shite at the moment.
Agree in some ways. I'm not really that interest in the premier league anymore. Chelsea have near zero chance of winning it now City are so strong, and battling for 4th to get in the CL, which we also have about zero chance of winning just isn't that interesting to me.
I started watching la Liga more where I don't have a main team I support, but still find I enjoy the games a lot so worth my time. I do still watch a few premier league games too, but no way I'm paying £60+ a month though to watch everything. Also the BT / SKY coverage is pretty poor these days IMO, and I can't stand G Neville on the commentary!
I don't necessarily think so.
Why? Ask that question to the thousands and thousands of fans, up and down the country, who support clubs with problems that make ours seem trivial by comparison. Maybe their enjoyment is less wrapped up in the boost to the ego that comes with following a successful club than yours is?
based on what?
The attitudes of a large portion of fans in here (and elsewhere) depresses me a lot more than the state of the game. Then again, that’s probably driven by an increasing view of football as a commodity, and people want value for money... even if they’ve never been to Old Trafford and watch illegal streams.
It's these lows that make the inevitable highs that will someday follow all the more sweet. Keep your chin up trooper.
Who cares about winning a title every year. It's the first title after 19 years that you remember for ever.
Logically, it is very stupid indeed. But again logically, it's also very stupid to get joy out of watching 11 strangers kicking a ball better than other 11 strangers. You are looking for a logical response to something that is far away from logic as can get.
After thinking the unthinkable one better be sure to unthink it again afterwards.
Sport is logical, though. It has been around forever. It feeds our ingrained competitiveness.
Sport and fandom in its modern day football interpretation at least are two different things though. My point is if we can derive some consistency of reason behind being happy because of the achievements of a football team, then surely, the same line of reasoning can be derived to explain sticking through the rough patches in the name of us all "being in it together".
Actually is very logic if you think about it in terms of highs and lows and in particular how you experience them over time. For most people positive experience last longer than negatives, highs and more weight than lows. The most trivial example is when you have a terrible day, everything went wrong but at the end of that day a stranger smiles at you, that little high can totally change the way you perceived the day.
But we love winning and hate losing. We can accept it, sure. But we cannot embrace it.
I think it's a case of getting the right manager in. A bit like Liverpool with Klopp. I sadly don't think Solskjær is that guy.
Unfortunately, the opposite is true. This is called negativity bias and explains the current state of redcafe.
Here's a wee experiment. Think about how clearly you can remember "Aguerroooo!" then think about how clearly you remember the goal that sealed our last league title. I can barely remember the latter event at all but I can recall - with crystal clarity - every detail of where and when I was when Aguero scored that fecking goal.
Great post, as was the post above which asked if the feeling would be the same if the poster had the same prospects for the coming season as Liverpool or City.
Ome thing this period has really shown is those who support the club and those who support winning. It's easy to love the game and the club itself when everything is rosy but it's actually quite shocking how quickly people are flagging. I grew up going to non league football, I remember my hometown getting promoted somewhere in the mid nineties and I think it was to the league below what is now the vanarama league. I can't remember the specifics at that level, I think it was promotion to the national league South, which then led to the conference and then league 2.
My point is that there's a whole lot to football outside of finishing in the top 3 in the Premier league. What I get from a lot of people is that is what they're interested in, I see it as a bonus, to be savoured and enjoyed. We had a lengthier period of enjoying this than most but it's quickly forgotten that only the season before last, we finished second.
I think some people confuse the enjoyment you get from backing a winner to enjoyment of the sport itself. Football on the whole isn't the problem, the fact that we're having to experience a humbling period seems much more the issue for some. If the money, agents and player power genuinely are the issue, go and support a local team in the lower tiers of the football league. Football at that level isn't about huge money deals etc but I'd imagine those who are complaining aren't actually interested in that, it actually boils down to wanting to be part of a community that gets to enjoy winning a lot.
Why do people think some people follow teams like Brentford up and down the country? Football doesn't start and end with being in the top 4 of the Premier league but there's an awful lot of people who treat it like it is.
I feel like I need to clarify that I'm not saying people can't be frustrated, can't criticise or want better for the team but falling out of love with an entire sport based on the fact that you're only choosing to take part in the top 1% of the game is not the same as genuinely not enjoying the sport as a whole anymore.
I'm not talking about a general positive outlook but craving for the highs. Negativity bias only explains a part of the state of redcafe, it explains the negativity but it doesn't explain the fact that people still power through it. The reason we power through it is because we are striving for that high, it doesn't matter if the actual high last 2 seconds, we will remember it even when we are at our lowest which doesn't help. Funnily enough these articles and studies always seem to be examples of negativity bias, doesn't it?
I don't think relentlessly following united is a source of pride to be honest. I know I'll watch every game and still go to a couple next season but i don't have that feeling of wanting to do it anymore, more an addiction at this point.
Hopefully that changes when the season starts but it just feels like another source of frustration i could do without. I'm sure that's just a lack of hope though.
Negativity bias is apparently higher in conservatives than liberals. So, is RedCafe full of conservatives?
Klopp would have been a really exciting hire.
I’m wrestling with the idea of cancelling my tv sports package this season for two reasons.
1. The current United squad is utterly uninspiring. I had the same feeling going into last season, and it’s still a boring, unlikeable and woefully low on skill/flare group of guys. The rumored targets aren’t changing that for me personally.
2. VAR. I know a lot are for it, but it’s already put me off the sport. The same thing happened for me with American football when it became all about replay, and now it’s happening with both football and even basketball. I already know, after seeing it with the NFL, what it will lead to. Just constant arguing over the rules and constant changing of the rules which leads to more confusion and arguing. Free goals will be awarded regularly for instances that were anything but clear. goal scoring opportunities. And goals will be disallowed where no conceivable advantage was actually gained, but a monitor shows a finger tip broke the rules. The equivalent of someone sending you a speeding ticket if you go over the limit by 0.5mph.
I’ve convinced myself now. Cancelling today.
Now you're getting on to addictive behaviours. Seeking a dopamine high, despite knowing full well the highs will be massively outweighed by the lows. The reason people gamble themselves into poverty. This is distinct from the way we remember lows much more clearly than highs. Although it does fit with the way gamblers never feel truly happy and fulfilled, even after big wins.
I think I'm more interested now than ever. Moyes, LVG and Jose often left me apathetic because I didn't like what they were trying to build.
We are in the shit right now but at least I feel like Ole wants to build something meaningful. It could be a tough season but I feel more emotionally invested than I have in a long time.
Yeah, I can relate to that. I’m definitely wary of getting emotionally invested in yet another project that looks doomed from the start but at least I have nothing but love and respect for the bloke in charge. Which is a refreshing change.
sadly in think we need more than the right manager, the whole structure of the club needs sorting
people stop supporting united when success dries up - truly shocking revelation, must be the first time it has happened to a club
Been thinking along the same lines for a while now but I'm lucky enough to be living in Barcelona for the last 20 years so I can still enjoy the game.
Even just a few short years ago when the season was in full flow my wife used to ask me when United were playing so she could make her own plans knowing I wouldn't miss a game. How that's changing.
Other than the City/Liverpool games I now couldn't give a toss about missing a game. All the excitement has been taken away from me by people who care more about making a profit than giving fans what they deserve to see on the pitch. It's got nothing to do with only supporting us blindly when we're winning things. 40 years a supporter through thick and thin but I just can't relate to the way football/Manchester United has become less of a sport and more of a business. Its true football is changing but if the club don't give 2 sh#tes about the playing side then why should I?
When I lived in London 30 years ago I used to go to OT at least 5/6 times a season and when United came to the capital which was obviously quite a lot I tried to go to as many games as I could. Even since living in Barcelona I used to go to at least 2/3 games a season. My last game was the quarter final CL game which I paid 280euros. Now I can think of better things to do with my time and money other than give it to the leeches that are sucking our club dry.
It was actually the first example that I had, I can see that I didn't express mysefl properly. For me there are clearly two things happening at all time, we will generally give more time and thoughts to negativity but we will also crave those highs.
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