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Time For Ole To Show His Mettle

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Rado_N, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. Jan 19, 2019

    Someone Something

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    I think it's more of a fitness thing than complacency. The players aren't used to the way we're pressing now, that's why we looked tired during the second halfs lately.

    I'm not worried because I trust Ole to figure it out.
  2. Jan 19, 2019

    Carl S Bridge New Member

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    If you watch the goal again you will see that lindelof is in no man's land, leaving Jones and dalot Vs 3 attacker's. Harsh to blame him for that, yeah he could have won the header but he had two men to mark and couldn't decide, and rightly so, which to mark and therefore was slightly out of position to win the header. Part of our resurgence has been down to his ability and bravery on the ball Vs smalling. He can and will step forward into midfield and can pick a pass
  3. Jan 19, 2019

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    With respect to keeping themselves in prime physical conditioning, they certainly do. I wont be surprised they don't live cleanly off the pitch.
  4. Jan 19, 2019

    BluesJr Full Member

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    :lol::houllier:
  5. Jan 19, 2019

    OverratedOpinion Full Member

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    They are currently adapting to a style of play under which they need to cover vastly more ground and are in the tail end of the most congested time if the year in regards to fixtures. That is the reason why they look tired in addition to Ole (correctly) wanting to stick with a winning team. If they were not training, sleeping or eating correctly the results would be much more noticeable.
  6. Jan 19, 2019

    Icemav Full Member

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    Completely agree with this and agree with the OP too. Yes its been a blessed run of wins with OGS, and its been fantastic to see the players unafraid to attack and express themselves, scoring goals no longer seems an issue at all. Confidence is back. However we have some problems and we are due a thumping if we don't rectify them. We have been riding our luck a bit and our attacking quality and goal scoring has seen us through. Great win at Spurs but on another day they thump us. Today as well we could have easily lost. Now I am realistic about us occasionally being under the cosh or having an off day but when the same thing rears its head in successive matches and we are hanging on for dear life then it points to a pattern.

    WE GIVE THE BALL AWAY LIKE ITS NOTHING when we need to be controlling the game. We looked incredibly poor in second half today and that is not how we should be playing at home. There was zero ball retention and patterns of play in the 2nd half. This would have taken the sting out of Brighton and made the result comfortable, however by the end Brighton were well worth a draw if not more. Now I love the fact that we are finally good on the counter (right tactics and personnel) however if we can't ever hold the ball when teams come at us we are going to struggle again.

    Honeymoon officially over.
  7. Jan 19, 2019

    Rado_N Yaaas Broncos!

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    You've decided that by yourself.
  8. Jan 19, 2019

    JMack1234 Full Member

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    You know what.

    Winning games like this actually convince me more about Ole than the early games when we steam rolled teams.
  9. Jan 19, 2019

    Icemav Full Member

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    It convinces me that Ole has got the tactics in attack working, because without that we would be in quite a bit of trouble. There is no control of the game when the opposition gets fired up. Ole will convince me if under these circumstances we grab hold of the ball and knock it around for a few minutes. Atm we look like headless chickens.
  10. Jan 19, 2019

    Glow New Member

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    I see two major weaknesses in Ole's way of playing.
    1) The structure of the defence is not good enough.
    2) The players get too tired in the second half, due to running too much earlier in the match

    For both of these I am afraid we will get punished when we meet the best teams (as we were close to when we met Tottenham, but then saved by DdG)
  11. Jan 19, 2019

    arthurka Full Member

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    Yes absolutely did..
  12. Jan 19, 2019

    JMack1234 Full Member

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    Yeah i've only got one foot on the Ole train but with the fixtures we've got we'll know if he's the guy. There's no way you can luck your way through those game.
  13. Jan 19, 2019

    Ekeke Full Member

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    After the next 6 games we'll have a good idea of how good Ole is managing this team. Thats FA cup against Arsenal to start, and finishing with matches against PSG and Liverpool.

    Pochetino has lost by the odd goal against Liverpool and City, the best teams he's played against this season. So I'd be looking for a close result in those matches
  14. Jan 19, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

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    First one will be solved by new signings.
    Second one with more time on training ground.
  15. Jan 19, 2019

    Icemav Full Member

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    I think its half fantastic what he done. We make chances and score goals. The other half is controlling the game with passing patterns. We have had an easy run so far (Spurs aside) and without the later we will start to find life very hard.
  16. Jan 19, 2019

    Garethw scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW

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    Or if he made a substitution that killed the other teams momentum. I love Ole, but I’m still not convinced that he is the right man to appoint as manager.
  17. Jan 19, 2019

    Glow New Member

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    Ole will not get new signings. And the defence problem is not only on individual level, it's also how it is structured (making the interactions between the defenders better).

    And I don't think the players aren't fit enough and thus need more training. Ole's attacking style takes too much effort out of the players too early in the games - they need to hold back a little bit more in order to control the play in 90 minutes.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2019
  18. Jan 19, 2019

    Siorac Full Member

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    We do tire visibly at the end of games. In terms of stamina, this squad needs a lot of work - not sure what we were doing on the training ground for the last two and a half seasons...

    Though I do think it was more of a mental frailty this time. Had we put the game to bed early in the second half - and we had enough opportunities to do so -, it would have been different but their goal clearly unnerved the players, the composure was just gone.
  19. Jan 19, 2019

    Eckers99 Michael Corleone says hello

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    I don't think it's about mettle, it's impressing some game smarts on them. They need to learn to control a match and run the clock down. Playing attacking football is fantastic but it's only half of the job.
  20. Jan 19, 2019

    SirFergie Full Member

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    Before Ole arrived, I would have agreed with you here. But to say we were hanging on is way off the mark. Brighton had 7 attempts in the whole game and 3 were on target. Other than the goal I don't remember DDG having to touch the ball other than one punch from a FK near the end.

    Again, not true. We created several chances in the first half of the second half but then our tempo dropped allowing Brighton back into the game. The issue as many have said beforehand is a fitness one.

    And that last comment I've highlighted is just laughable in its over exaggeration.
  21. Jan 19, 2019

    Suvvernmanc New Member

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    On a day when Liverpool.. The best team in the PL (cringe).. concede 3 to palace and scrape a win, we beat Brighton unconvincingly being truthful, and Ole is bring criticised? In the PL anything can happen. Brighton slowed the game down and played the possession game for the last 30 minutes. Very clever from them when we had dominated the majority of the game.

    I would love us to dominate every team in the league with positive possession and swashbuckling attacking football. But that's not going happen. Something that will never happen in the PL is a shock scoreline. We got the 3 points. I'm happy.

    Under Jose, getting 3 points but scraping it wasn't good enough. But games like today is normal in the PL. Brighton held us for a period. Palace held Liverpool. Jeez even Liverpool only beat Brighton last week by a goal. Why the overreacting?
  22. Jan 19, 2019

    BrianMcClair'sBarnet Full Member

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    I'd hate to have a little moan about us and Ole since he's came on board because he and the staff have done a terrific job in getting the club out of the Jose gloom but I am worried about our lack of possession and composure recently.

    Newcastle,Reading,Spurs and now Brighton have had it comfortable knocking the ball around recently,more-so in the second halfs ,and that's worrisome with Arsenal and PSG on the horizon.
    We were very fortunate that DDG saved his best performance of the season away to Spurs because prior to that he's had a indifferent campaign.
  23. Jan 19, 2019

    Revan Assumptionman

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    I think it is more a matter of him not doing enough rotation and the team getting tired, rather than the player not trying hard.

    Still, it is a fantastic achievement winning 7 in a row (I don't think that we have done it since Fergie retired). However, Ole should start resting some of his players. Time for Lukaku, Sanchez, Fred and Pereira getting used more.
  24. Jan 19, 2019

    Womp idiot

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    The overreacting isn't even about the performance per se. More about the manager seemingly being clueless on how to change the flow of the game when the opponents switch things up and put us under pressure. We seem to just sit back and absorb the pressure, which better teams can take advantage of. Had it not been for De Gea having one of his best ever performances for us, Spurs could have buried us in the second half. We can't rely on DDG to pull performances like that regularly. PSG will make a mockery out of us if we sit back and try to soak up pressure. Ole needs to be proactive and make changes throughout the game.

    It's so far the one thing that I'm not convinced of about Ole. He has done a remarkable job, but in the big games when we can't rely on individual brilliance, the ability to switch things up is extremely important.

    I'm hoping he will figure it out though as it's still early days.
  25. Jan 19, 2019

    meamth Full Member

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    Caf in a nutshell.

    Standards so high, that even 7 unbeaten runs means feck all if the last 20 minutes was struggling.

    It happens every time with every big teams in the world. You don't expect them to have easy 90 minutes all year.
  26. Jan 19, 2019

    red woppit Full Member

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    We have so many good, but not great, defenders, and Ole still hasn't had all of them available yet. I'm not sure what you mean by structure, do you think we should play three at the back, or play two, so called, defensive midfielders, and two CB's?
    I think they get tired possibly because they are putting a lot more into each game, whereas under José they would not push forward very much, with the way Ole's teams play, they are attacking a lot more, therefore covering more ground. In time the fitness level should improve.
    Indeed. We know that some individuals in the squad need replacing, and that some players are yet to be available to Ole, but what he has done this far has been remarkable. He has only worked with this squad for a matter of weeks, and must still be assessing certain players abilities, it is what is called, I believe, a work in progress.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  27. Jan 19, 2019

    Icemav Full Member

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    They scored a deserved goal and we were severely under the pump for the last quarter of the game having lost control. So maybe not an L but definitely a D would not have been undeserved.

    And its wrong to say that its fitness only as that certainly wasn't the issue versus Spurs. Just listened to Ole in his post match interview and at least he fully recognizes the problems at the end (unlike Jose I found) and said we need to defend with the ball and make them chase it.
  28. Jan 19, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

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    This is the next step in our development in a team. Someone put it very well. We are either defending or attacking. That takes a lot out of you. There has to be a middle ground where we can control the game at our own pace and just keep the ball/make other team desperate without actually being intent on scoring, if that makes sense.
  29. Jan 19, 2019

    SirFergie Full Member

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    Rubbish. A dangerous FK and corner does not equate to "deserving a draw" in my book. We weren't at our best, but seriously...come on.
  30. Jan 20, 2019

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    By hairdryer, if you mean that he has to blast the players or anything, I am not so sure.
    Surely he will be addressing the issues the way he sees it. To his blame, the subs seem a bit delayed.
    The players are getting tired because of the pressing game they are playing nowadays. So it will take some time to get used to it.

    I think being 2-0 made our players take things a bit easy. The players dropped their guard a bit to concede. I think Ole did mention in one of the press conference or interviews that our players being top in some records on running will have an effect.

    Different players react differently and if he is a good man manager, he will be addressing those differently. I think a hairdryer approach does not work nowadays in the same way. And even if it does, it is too early. The thing with hairdryer is the players first need to be utterly convinced that even if the manager is blasting you, it is for your own and the team's good. It takes time for the players to have that respect and confidence in the manager.
  31. Jan 20, 2019

    Icemav Full Member

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    I disagree. Away from home and applying that sort of consistent pressure. It would have been a fine result.
  32. Jan 20, 2019

    SirFergie Full Member

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    What consistent pressure? They had the ball more but I can't remember them doing anything with it after the goal apart from set pieces and then they were dealt with.

    The issue is to do with the fitness of our players. They have been severely undertrained for the best part of 18 months. That's the issue.
  33. Jan 20, 2019

    Cardozo New Member

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    Surely those saying they’re not in Oles camp because he’s not shown x, y or z don’t know more about what Ole & co should be doing with the team than they do?

    I trust they’re much more football wise than all of us put together and well aware of simple things like “needing to control the game better” for the last 25mins and players looking lethargic towards the end.

    I’m sure he’s not gone to bed thinking it was a perfect game and that’s why all of us should be going to bed more than happy we’ve won 7 in a row. Rome wasn’t built in a day (or 7 games).

    Do you not remember how bad we were only a couple of months ago? On the back foot from the first minute to the end, always trying to come back from behind, defending a 1-0 lead...?
  34. Jan 20, 2019

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    We play arsenal away next, and the last two games we played with the performance we had against arsenal away last season, we can certainly expect the same from us.


    Brighton are not a top team creative wise so you can expect wastefullness with them, but top teams will make a strong come back with the display we put in without the ball and even with the ball at times what we show after 60 min mark.
  35. Jan 20, 2019

    Womp idiot

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    No-one is claiming they know more than a professional manager though. He isn't competing against us though, he is having tactical battles with other professional managers. I'm sure he is aware of the issues, whether or not he has the ability to figure them out is hard to say as it's still extremely early days. Here's hoping though as having him as permanent manager does have a certain allure about it.
  36. Jan 20, 2019

    Gopher Brown Full Member

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    We would never ever have got 7 wins from those games with Jose.

    Solskjær deserves massive credit and we’re winning when we play poorly which shows solidity. The performances might be a bit up and down. But when they’re good, they’re really good.
  37. Jan 20, 2019

    Suvvernmanc New Member

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    Spurs were forced into making changes. Sissoko got Injured and they went a goal down. They played Kane, Son, Lemella and Ali as the front 4 with Erikson and Winks as their midfield 2. Of course spurs were going to attack us and pin us back. That line-up is incredible. And the only tactic they could deploy with those players is all out attack! They had no other option.

    As for OGS not making changes, i assume you mean today? Our midfield 3 of Pogba, Matic and Herrera are all playing so well. Changing one of them would have been bad for the system. Fred and Andreas wouldn't change the game today for us. They are not ready. Lukaku isn't good enough. Darmian and Bailly won't change the game either and Mata the other sub, came in to keep possession better and create when we could. So I would say OGS did all he could today.

    What OGS need to do is get Fred, Andreas and Sanchez playing well as they are the ones who should be coming on to relieve Herrera, Rashford, Matic, Lingard etc.. from their duties when they are tired. Our starting 11 have taken to Ole straight away but most of the others have alot to prove!

    What i am seeing is great progression in the squad, but OGS is definitely not the problem. He's doing a fantastic job.
  38. Jan 20, 2019

    Tom Cato New Member

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    Only in Manchester, will the fans sow doubt about the manager after 7 wins in a row. 6 wins in the PL in a row for a new manager, something only 2 other managers have ever achieved.

    First of all, Brighton is not a pedestrian team. I'm sure no one here needs reminding that Brighton had WON the last 2 matches against Man United before today? Oh, and they have conceded 1 goal less than Man United so far this season.

    We have lost to these teams this year:

    Brighton 1-3
    Tottenham 0-3
    West Ham 1-3
    Man City 1-3
    Liverpool 1-3

    And drawed against juggernauts such as Southampton and Crystal Palace.

    So we went from that, to 7 wins in a row, Tottenham is a formidable home team, and we controlled the first half comfortably.

    Now does anyone really think that 11 professional footballers go ontot he pitch the second half and think to themselves "You know what, I'm going to just chill. The job is done, all is cool, no one will notice". For people that clamor for Poch now that the team doesn't steamroll a team for 90 minutes flat.

    Tottenham got pinned, crushed and outplayed by Wolverhampton Wanderers 3 weeks ago. They got outshot at home by a mid table PL team. Tottenham got outplayed and outran by Man United the first 60 minutes, is that the fault of Poch for being a bad coach, or credit to the Man United players for playing well? And if its the credit of the Man United players, is any credit lendt to opposing teams when they manage to get a surge going?

    It is what it is, the team has won 7 in a row and the manager has no cause to change a team thats winning at too great an extent. Unless he plans to gamble for no reason and risk a loss. You always go with the known quantity and adjust in small batches.

    Ole has been here a month, there really is genuinely a limited amount of work you can do in that timeframe to turn a boat around. And quite frankly everyone here should bend over and kiss the ground and thank Ed for finding a manager that was willing to work here temporarily and on top of all managed to do something no Man United manager has ever done before.

    The manager gives instructions before and during the game, this is known to everyone. We already know that Ole has grabbed the old' Sir Alex hairdryer and put the fear of god into some of the players. Reportedly Martial has been the subject of one, and literally the whole team after the debacle against Reading. There is no complacency here. The very idea is prepostreous. These players are fighting for a chance to play in the Champions League next year, the last thing anyone that wears that jersey is take a casual day at work when they are chasing from behind. The team has momentum, everyone cares. Unfortunately, there is another team on the pitch, and on occasion they too knows how to play football. There are DEFINITELY many things that could have been done better when Brighton started surging, individual effort and calm plays. But honestly that is up to the players on their pitch. They have their orders, now its time to execute.

    Luke Shaw being out also definitely hurt our overall game. He's massively underrated and is hugely important to our abiltiy to press high and sustain that pressure. Dalot had an alright game, but he's not Luke Shaw.

    Listen, we have a very glaring issue with the back end of this team. 33 goals conceded is evidence of that very fact. Something like that takes time to correct. You can inspire, and you can motivate, you can even work on tactics, but you can't fix everyone immediately. Chris Smalling out is a huge issue for us. Phil Jones is a liability at this point and he needs to be replaced sooner than later. I don't know what happened to him, but his legs just aren't there this season.

    In 5 days we have another monster hard match against Arsenal away in the cup. If I was a betting man, I'd think that Jones comes out for Bailly, and Lindgard sits for Sanchez or Lukaku. Unfortunately we don't really have a lot of alterantives in the back. Arsenal just beat Chelsea 2-0. We are now 3 points off 4th and Champions League. And better yet, if the other teams fumble we can start closing in on 2 and 3 as well. This season is far from over.

    Our next 3 PL games feature Burnely, Leicester and Fulham. Like Ole said, it's against these teams you collect the points.

    But for the sake of conversation, someone who feels Ole managed this match poorly. What would you have done differently?
  39. Jan 20, 2019

    Smores Full Member

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    Seems like people coming up with new excuses for what we've seen time and time again since Moyes really.

    Our defence hasn't been good enough since SAF left and under the last 3 managers it's led to the same anxiety spreading through the team. It's not tactical or even really fitness it's just a complete lack of confidence in our defensive ability.

    Under Fergie we still had teams peg us back like today but we knew our quality and didn't panic. United of old would have gone and got a top CB already, no point signing one this January though in case the next manager doesn't want a CB who can actually defend
  40. Jan 20, 2019

    RedRonaldo Full Member

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    We are now only 3 points behind top 4...... with a perfect record of 7 win in a row

    Right just sack Ole sell Rashford...