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Wish he would get more minutes. Still have high hopes for TFM
Shaw must stay.
In any event, if they're not demonstrating an ability in training then there aren't likely to be considered on matchdays.
One season training with the seniors under Jose is not so bad I suppose, he is just 19. But next season he probably needs to go on loan.
You can still impress in training without giving it 100%. Conte would probably slap you upside the head for it though.
Lampard said that Agüero would jog around in training games and score a few goals when the ball finally arrived at him.
This sort of thing.
Why loan we need him as well.
Massive difference between established stars who have proven themselves on match days for years and a young teenager who still has all his work ahead of him. If he showed his skills in training and there was a place for him in the team then he will play. If not, then he has to keep working hard and wait for his chance
He had some decent cameos last season. And some not so good performances too. He hasn't been particularly good when he's played this season either. There's every chance he's not yet good enough for the first time.
Need I remind you that a decent chunk of the squad currently relegating Sunderland were deemed good enough for the first team by Louis "youth development genius" van gaal?
I'm fine with TFM being deemed not yet able for regular first team appearances. I'd like to see him play at least some football while he's waiting. I don't think our reserve team has ever felt as pointless/useless as it has this season.
Luke shaw is on the bench for 3 seasons now after phenomenal development at Southampton. Fosu mensah has a long way to go i think
A WUM because I want to see the kid succeed? It's not like I'm demanding he plays for the first team. If you think that this is the proper pathway for a footballer maybe the WUM is you, with all respect.
Exactly, he's probably the player with the least match experience in the whole of Manchester United, and I'm talking first team to U12s. It just doesn't make any sense.
I think we all want to see him succeed. Questioning the manager when you have feck all insight into what is transpiring behind the scenes and in training is what I was talking about. You claim in an earlier post that this was a wasted year, that Jose doesn't know what he's doing and that if the player "had any sense" he would contact his agent to seek a move elsewhere. I mean what the actual feck!?
How do you know anything about TFM's situation when you aren't privy to how he is performing in training, whether Mourinho and staff believe he is physically and psychologically ready for a consistent first team role, and whether or not there is freedom for Mourinho to experiment with a young player who has no clearly defined position at a time when we are fighting for a CL place.
You don't need to be on the payroll of any football club to know that a professional football player should be playing football unless he is injured. You seem to think training is the same as match experience. What does that have to do with inside knowledge. Do we not have an U23 team where could be playing ?
He's 19 not 6, how is not playing any sort of football not wasted. He's not played reasonable football this season and probably wouldn't. It's even more unlikely that he will get a look in next season, as it is expected that José will spend on more players, even further limiting his chances. Manchester United is not the be all and end all when it comes to a player's career. If he's not guaranteed football, why should he seem a move. Many on here believe he has serious potential, why shouldn't he be forging a career.
I never claimed to be privy to any information. Your points are based on theory when there needs to be some practical work done.
Harry Winks made his debut 2 years ago at aged 19, (older than TFM was) then followed it with a massive 2 appearances the following season.
Some people are so impatient.
Agreed. Somehow players who aren't at Rashford of Martial's level are somehow viewed as lagging in their development when they're simply developing at the normal/gradual pace that most footballers do. Lingard is 23/24 and is just now beginning to show his quality. Imagine if a manager had rushed him into playing (and struggling) as a 19 year old out of a sense of pressure to "give youth a chance". Players never develop at an identical rate and the circumstances by which they can get minutes will always vary by whatever situation the club is in at a given time.
Presumably his own pace would involve playing some sort of football.
Pretty much agree with you here, Mourinho was brought in to steady the ship, it's his first year in charge and he can't be taking unnecessary risks which Fosu-Mensah is right now, still doesn't explain the lack of loan though, might be that no club was willing to take him on?
I think a lot of these posters who want to play youth at all costs would take the lack of playing time for the youngsters much better if the older heads were yielding results, finally being in 5th in the league isn't really a masterstroke is it, but football isn't an easy formula to crack.
I hope further along the line Mourinho gets us back to where we belong so he can start integrating youth players more.
No one is advocating that TFM should be playing for the first team but that he should be playing some sort of football. Only a few months he eligible to play for the U18s and the U23s, enough opportunity to play football.
He's part of the first team dynamic at 19. Not much match time, if any at all, however this is part of his development. If Jose can have constructive conversations with Andreas Pereira and getting a loan when it's the right time, then Jose and TFM should have that same conversation soon.
It's fair to say that Jose doesn't know what he will get out of TFM when he plays, nor does he trust TFM 100% to play him at all. People saying he should play center mid are crazy. All that responsibility on his shoulders is incorrect when games are coming thick and fast and are so meaningful.
Yeah that's it really.
How has it become disagreeable to say a football player should play football. It's kind of in the job title.
That's one option - another is to have him develop full time with the first team - train with them, socialize with the likes of Zlatan, Pogba, Bailly et al. to learn from them. That's another form of player development. I expect him to go out on loan next year, it just wasn't feasible this year since he was in contention for actual playing time and when it appeared like he wouldn't feature much, it was too late to send him off on a loan somewhere.
That doesn't stop him from playing with the u23s though just like it didn't last year. Or does it stop Tuanzebe from doing both.
Can you think of an example of that happening with another player? So pretty much taken out of games for a season, just training instead. One where it turned out well?
I can't imagine anybody ever thought of it as a method of developing a player. I doubt Mourinho planned it this way.
I don't think it was planned that he would play as little as he has. Unfortunately, early on we found ourselves playing catch up in the league and dealing with a squad cohesion problem where we weren't executing properly in the final third. Mourinho therefore, had to prioritize solving that (or attempting to) at all costs to where he found himself severely restricted in terms of experimenting more with the likes of TFM, Tuanzebe et al. Could he have gone out on loan at the beginning of the year? Definitely, but that was also somewhat restricted by the fact that Mourinho needed to make up his squad numbers after having allowed Januzaj, Pereira, Borthwick-Jackson, and Varela leave for their loans.
Don't disagree with this (issues bigger than thought, catchup, priorities), just seems a shame (and a bit odd) that once Jose sees this, he couldn't try to get him some game time, knowing he could always bring him back to first team squad if needed?
Way too early to be sure TFM will make it and still not sure of best position, but he does look like someone who could make it.
I think Jose's quandary with TFM is that he doesn't play one position exceedingly well (just my speculation), to where he views him as a logical substitute in certain situations. He can't play him at RB since Valencia rarely misses games. He can't play him at CB since we have about 5 other CBs ahead of him in the pecking order. Long term, I think he is destined to be a box to box DM, but again, he can't play there much this year since we are chasing points and have to go with more experienced options.
If he develops his decision making and passing a bit more over the next year, I think we could have a special player on our hands.
All true but none of that explains why he's not even played for the U23's.
I don't think it's crucial at this stage, I just think it's a shame. To not play football for no particular reason must be frustrating.
To suggest this (no games, just training) is an option for developing a young player is a big stretch.
Massive surprise, not.
Mourinho doesn't develop young players, he never has done despite his claims. He prefers older, more experienced players, young players are more of a liability to him so he chooses to take a hardline approach, just to try and justify not playing them if he can.
It's one of the reasons I never wanted him here.
You have Totti who pretty much stayed with the first team in 1993 who only made less like 15 apps in 2 seasons 92/93 & 93/94. You have Drogba who was amateur footballer. He pretty much spent the first season at Le Mans with the first team only to train and adapt to be a professional footballer with little to non game time. Bailly played only 15 games for Espanyol & Villareal in 14-15 with only 5 game in the first half of the season
Thiago Silva had a period where he only trained with Milan & didn't play matches in any form. Different circumstances. It's harder to recall about lesser players, but I believe it happens. Another thing is Attacker can play on instinct & still get passing grade while it's harder for defensive players as it involved tactical understanding, executing plan for full game.
Agreed. More specifically, he's laser focused on winning with a strategy where the whole is more important than the parts. The romantic youth development era is in its final gasp, not just at United, but also at most big clubs. There is simply too much pressure to win NOW, and that doesn't lend itself well to youth experimentation.
The amount of drivel you can read here...it seems here you cant say positive and negative thing in same sentence about JM. You are either so up his arse or you are a hater.
If he wanted,he had plenty of chance to show some faith into young players like TFM and give them minutes but he doesnt trust them simple,not because lack of skill or work ethic,its all about age. Hell its not even about development young players,its about them being better or not being worse then some senior members but because one player is 26 and other is 19,younger ones dont stand a chance.
We can pick examples from Chelsea but in his time here for example,we have Darmian in piss poor form a player who majority of CAF wants sold/gone and TFM for position of right back,are you really gonna tell me that TFM couldnt take some minutes from Darmian this season?! But because we have a tribal chieftain in charge,it is what it is.
Might be both but he was impressive in many games last season. Yeah if Jose has no plans for him then we should at least loan him out.
I'm not questioning Jose, just that he was good last season and no reason to doubt his ability.
Not some decent cameos, he played some very good games and this season he barely got any chances to show that. He isn't even playing for reserves so obviously he was very rusty when he played. For a record he played just 229 mins.
I have no problem if Jose don't use young players as getting back to the top is the utmost priority for ManUtd. I simply don't agree with this part: He's obviously not yet at a level where he can get enough first team minutes to develop his game but how's he going to improve without playing any football at all?
He is good enough to play few mins in PL or in some cup games. This season is a write off unless we ditch league in month time and start using him.
Agreed. But for some reason only Jose gets the abuse. I checked randomly, Conte haven't promoted anyone in 3 years at Juve when they were by far the best team in the league, Pep didn't at Bayern and Ancelotti in his career. At big clubs it's very difficult to promote young players to first team.
We should loan few of our players we did with Pereira.
Yes, although I get the impression some fans are still living in the Fergie years where they expect youth to consistently come up through the ranks and break through to the first team. That may have been the norm in the past, but it will be the exception going forward.
Shame but that's the way every club is heading. No incentive to promote young players when you have loads of money.
Now that Schweinsteiger've left, here's hoping TFM would get a lot more gaming times.
Either in a midfield of three or CBs of three.
Come on TFM break into the First Team this season.
This season especially, he may get some game time. But I think with Morgan and now Bastian leaving, and Carrick nearing the end, I think it's clear Jose will be buying another midfielder.
Has Fosu ever played in central midfield for the youth/reserve teams at United?
Yes he has, Played CDM but also box to box for periods. Looked good in there but his physical advantage was also huge in the youths.
Yeah... loan him out next season because he needs competitive games to develop
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