Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

Discussion in 'Player Performances Forum' started by Bebe, Jul 7, 2012.

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  1. Sep 7, 2013

    Ekeke Full Member

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    Yes, sometimes when you sign a player its the reaction of your own players that might make it worthwhile, due to competition and keeping the squad fresh etc. For example how much Scholes improved over the seasons following us signing Veron. Without the extra competition he may not have
  2. Sep 7, 2013

    Ash_G Full Member

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    But what do you see in his game that would make him player good enough for us at the top of the pitch? He's not a good dribbler or the ball, doesn't have power, hasn't shown a real cutting edge with his passing nor a good eye for goal. If we do for for a three then I would expect him to be be well below kagawa and Rooney for that role and then you have to consider whether we would bring him in over say Hernandez.
  3. Sep 7, 2013

    Sixpence Erroneously Promoted

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    He was a goalscoring midfielder when he's been out on loan so he can definitely score goals. He needs to come out of his shell a little bit and be given license to be more creative further up the pitch.
  4. Sep 7, 2013

    RedRover Full Member

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    He won't get that chance at United because he's not good enough with the ball at his feet. Decent passer, works hard - simply not a great player, although valuable to have in the squad.

    He's not good enough to play "in the hole" and has much better players in front of him in that position. His best chance of a long career at United is to do what he does - work hard, but maybe to develop a bit more discipline and look at himself as a defensive midfield player.

    He has limited ability but Fletcher was similar and found a niche for himself and Cleverly could do the same.
  5. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

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    Really like this kid.

    I think he'll only get better and better with age. CM's sometimes develop late so I'm hoping to see some progress from him. Think one day we'll be thankful we gave him so many appearances when he was younger.
  6. Sep 7, 2013

    Ash_G Full Member

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    I think it's one thing scoring at championship level, he didnt get a lot of goals for Wigan. Personally I would say he's been given plenty of opportunity to create, albeit from a deeper starting point but he's never been ties to that role except for in the biggest games. There's no reason why he couldn't be creating more from where he is. Personally I think he keeps it to safe.
  7. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    What do we think he was doing differently when he broke on to the scene? He was a lot more impressive then. Or is just a case of losing form? There was a lot more movement and dynamism in the team i guess when he came initially.
  8. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

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    I still think he's playing well.

    Players go through dips in form. Sometimes the "excitement" of a new player means fan overexagerate their good games more. Now he's accomplished we might want something else.
  9. Sep 7, 2013

    Earthquake Pokemon expert

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    Not enough afro, tbh.
  10. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina New Member

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    People exaggerate his early performances, I think. He was alongside another very attack minded midfielder and we were rubbish at the back as a result. Also, our wingers and strikers were immense then too and they were the real reason we were so good. Back then people seemed to think he was our second coming in midfield which was all a bit silly really.

    He's good, probably good enough to the third/fourth choice here which he likely now is with Fellaini.
  11. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    There was a bit of new player excitement but only because the new player looked really good. I thought he looked a step ahead in teams of his football brain and quick decision making and were not seeing so much of that these days.
  12. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina New Member

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    Are you sure it's not cause we weren't used to seeing a midfielder actually run and pass with the football?
  13. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Are we now used to it?

    I think it's probably down to the team then suiting him. Apart from the defending the whole team was playing that sexy one touch short passing stuff which probably suited him much better than the more far apart game we play these days
  14. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina New Member

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    No it's just I honestly can't remember him doing anything that great at the time, at least nothing more than what we see from him now anyway. I remember plenty of great moments from others, but not him. Even at the time I wasn't amazed at his play like others were. I've never been overly impressed by him really, he's good and I'm glad we have him as an option but he seems to be criminally overrated sometimes. If he wasn't an academy player people would be far harsher.
  15. Sep 7, 2013

    psychdelicblues Full Member

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    It was barely 2 or 3 games.
  16. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Definitely more than 5. Even when he came back to side we looked better for it. One game or 10, he still looked a lot more impressive a footballer.
  17. Sep 7, 2013

    Varun Wants the D...

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    His movement and his ability to make himself available for the pass was better earlier, seems far more static of late.
  18. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    He wasn't doing individually brilliant things, no. But I thought his link up play was class. The little gives and go's, instantly knowing what to do with the ball, sometimes well before receiving it, it was quite impressive. He didn't look like a top talent but he looked very impressive all the same. Now, he's just not doing much at all with the ball, it's all very safe and uninteresting. But I think he's someone who needs his team play "that" way to look "that" good. (Again not saying he looked a world beater)
  19. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

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    See on the other hand, I feel that if we'd have bought him for 25 million from Athletico Madrid we'd like him more.
  20. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Actually I think it might be related to those qualities in the rest of the team.
  21. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    What! He'd be slaughtered by the fans if we signed him for that much and he played like he has this season. He'd be labeled a flop already.
  22. Sep 7, 2013

    Varun Wants the D...

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    Bollocks. Both Clev and Welbeck get a comparatively easier ride here because they're from the academy.



    Possibly because Ando's similar in that regard while Carrick isnt. Am waiting to see a more fluid frontline for us, hope it happens. That's when Kagawa will flourish too.
  23. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina New Member

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    Yup, just like we all love Ashley Young and his lovely little £18m fee.
    Yeah he did look good in those ways and he WAS more impressive than I expected him to be, but I don't think he's regressed since then or anything, just the one-twos and quick passes have kind of worn off on me and I've realized he doesn't actually create anything with the ball. I think at the time people we're like "feck, we're playing great, why is this? what's the missing link here that we didn't have last year? Cleverley!", when really, Rooney, Nani, Young, Hernandez and arguably Anderson were all better than he was. He was probably the least impressive of our front six, looking back.
  24. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

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    Ashley Young is another example. Both Nani and Valencia get a much easier ride than him as they're more exotic.

    Jonny Evans, Fletcher, O'Shea, Welbeck. There's some criminal underrating of our academy prospects IMO.
  25. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina New Member

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    Wha'? An easier ride?

    Sorry, what the feck are you talking about here? For one thing, they're far better players than Young, they cost LESS than Young, and you can't possibly argue that in their prolonged shit spells here, they haven't gotten slaughtered on the Caf on numerous occasions by people.

    You talk some proper naive bullshit here sometimes.
  26. Sep 7, 2013

    psychdelicblues Full Member

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    He was injured against Bolton before the goals started flying in. That was the 4th league match. Arsenal 8-2. Arsenal in disarray, nearly a reserve side they put out although United could have conceded 5 or 6. Chelsea maybe but United could have drawn the game. All he were was part of a good attacking display but defensively suspect.
  27. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

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    Actually I think the cycle goes something like.

    a) Break into the team - Massively overrated. Demand to start every game
    b) Struggle to nail down first team place. Slight lack of form - Not good enough. Should be a squad player.
    c) Age 24/25. Realise they're a fantastic asset to the team.. Some people still want a bigger name thogh
  28. Sep 7, 2013

    psychdelicblues Full Member

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    Have you seen the Anderson thread?
  29. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina New Member

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    I think Twigg is just upset because we signed a midfielder.
  30. Sep 7, 2013

    #07 Full Member

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    Arguably. What isn't arguable for me is that after that dark day against City he was rushed back into the first XI for the Everton game in which all of a sudden we looked so much more composed, at least until he did his ankle again hitting that long pass. After that we instantly went back to looking cak til Scholesy came back in January 2012.

    If I have a criticism of Clev it's that he doesn't drive forward as he used to. In that Shield game maybe Tom was working on adrenaline but he showed no fear of actually running with the ball if the pass wasn't on. Nowadays, if there's no obvious option to play the ball to, Clev just turns around and lays it off to Rio or Vida. It's a conservative change and a negative one IMHO. We know when there's good movement ahead of him Cleverley can thread passes to players, that was clear for England against Scotland and when Chico and Nani came on at Anfield. What he needs to do more of, or go back to doing, is taking responsibility for the ball and commit people so as to create space for others.
  31. Sep 7, 2013

    Raees Full Member

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    Cleverley's big issue is the lack of goals, Carrick is a DM but Cleverley is meant to be an all-round midfielder but he lacks penetration in the attacking third, barely any assists and not enough of a goal threat... its frustrating because everything about him suggests he can develop that to his game, he just needs to push himself to that next level.
  32. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Valencia is exotic :rolleyes:
  33. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina New Member

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    Well, he does have a sexy swagger to him.
  34. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Thanks for quoting my attempt at posting a smiley, cina. Thanks a fecking lot!
  35. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina New Member

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    Oh shit, you were trying to do that? I thought you just just flirting with me "drool"
  36. Sep 7, 2013

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    He is 25 in a few days so he can't be classed as young or a prospect anymore. Really needs to step his game up this season. I thought he played well againt Chelsea and he really needs to be putting more of those performances in on a regular basis.

    I didn't think he played well againt Swansea (despite what some on here will say and get the passing stats out) or Liverpool; he badly needs to find consistency to his game. He has not shown enough to be an automatic starter for us and maybe he will get a-bit of a wake-up call with the arrival of Fellaini.

    He needs to find himself a niche in the team and as-of-now there is no particular part of his game that stands-out and if he is to make it here then that will have to change.
  37. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

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    I think most posters are more upset than me at the signing of Felliani.
  38. Sep 7, 2013

    adexkola American Arse

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    He has to improve, sure, but I don't see the cause for all the impatience. He's earned time to make a case for himself. Selecting a few performances where our attacking cast has been impotent, to castigate him with is just myopic.
  39. Sep 7, 2013

    Ekeke Full Member

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    No, they get an easier ride because they have been our player of the season whilst Young has been our unbelievably overpriced signing of the season. And even then, do they get an easier ride? Valencia has been woeful and most people will admit it now, even if some took their time to face it.
  40. Sep 7, 2013

    MoneyMay Full Member

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    god shave our queen, speshly her hairy goat legs
    Nope, he's 24. His birthday has already passed.
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