Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

Discussion in 'Player Performances Forum' started by Bebe, Jul 7, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina The Bed Sheet Stalker

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    50,257
    No it's just I honestly can't remember him doing anything that great at the time, at least nothing more than what we see from him now anyway. I remember plenty of great moments from others, but not him. Even at the time I wasn't amazed at his play like others were. I've never been overly impressed by him really, he's good and I'm glad we have him as an option but he seems to be criminally overrated sometimes. If he wasn't an academy player people would be far harsher.
  2. Sep 7, 2013

    psychdelicblues Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    Electric Ladyland


    It was barely 2 or 3 games.
  3. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    60,738
    Location:
    india
    Definitely more than 5. Even when he came back to side we looked better for it. One game or 10, he still looked a lot more impressive a footballer.
  4. Sep 7, 2013

    Varun Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    35,221
    Location:
    Calcutta
    His movement and his ability to make himself available for the pass was better earlier, seems far more static of late.
  5. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    60,738
    Location:
    india
    He wasn't doing individually brilliant things, no. But I thought his link up play was class. The little gives and go's, instantly knowing what to do with the ball, sometimes well before receiving it, it was quite impressive. He didn't look like a top talent but he looked very impressive all the same. Now, he's just not doing much at all with the ball, it's all very safe and uninteresting. But I think he's someone who needs his team play "that" way to look "that" good. (Again not saying he looked a world beater)
  6. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater The Special One!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    13,456
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.

    See on the other hand, I feel that if we'd have bought him for 25 million from Athletico Madrid we'd like him more.
  7. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    60,738
    Location:
    india
    Actually I think it might be related to those qualities in the rest of the team.
  8. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    60,738
    Location:
    india
    What! He'd be slaughtered by the fans if we signed him for that much and he played like he has this season. He'd be labeled a flop already.
  9. Sep 7, 2013

    Varun Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    35,221
    Location:
    Calcutta
    Bollocks. Both Clev and Welbeck get a comparatively easier ride here because they're from the academy.



    Possibly because Ando's similar in that regard while Carrick isnt. Am waiting to see a more fluid frontline for us, hope it happens. That's when Kagawa will flourish too.
  10. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina The Bed Sheet Stalker

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    50,257
    Yup, just like we all love Ashley Young and his lovely little £18m fee.
    Yeah he did look good in those ways and he WAS more impressive than I expected him to be, but I don't think he's regressed since then or anything, just the one-twos and quick passes have kind of worn off on me and I've realized he doesn't actually create anything with the ball. I think at the time people we're like "feck, we're playing great, why is this? what's the missing link here that we didn't have last year? Cleverley!", when really, Rooney, Nani, Young, Hernandez and arguably Anderson were all better than he was. He was probably the least impressive of our front six, looking back.
  11. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater The Special One!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    13,456
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.

    Ashley Young is another example. Both Nani and Valencia get a much easier ride than him as they're more exotic.

    Jonny Evans, Fletcher, O'Shea, Welbeck. There's some criminal underrating of our academy prospects IMO.
  12. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina The Bed Sheet Stalker

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    50,257
    Wha'? An easier ride?

    Sorry, what the feck are you talking about here? For one thing, they're far better players than Young, they cost LESS than Young, and you can't possibly argue that in their prolonged shit spells here, they haven't gotten slaughtered on the Caf on numerous occasions by people.

    You talk some proper naive bullshit here sometimes.
  13. Sep 7, 2013

    psychdelicblues Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    Electric Ladyland
    He was injured against Bolton before the goals started flying in. That was the 4th league match. Arsenal 8-2. Arsenal in disarray, nearly a reserve side they put out although United could have conceded 5 or 6. Chelsea maybe but United could have drawn the game. All he were was part of a good attacking display but defensively suspect.
  14. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater The Special One!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    13,456
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    Actually I think the cycle goes something like.

    a) Break into the team - Massively overrated. Demand to start every game
    b) Struggle to nail down first team place. Slight lack of form - Not good enough. Should be a squad player.
    c) Age 24/25. Realise they're a fantastic asset to the team.. Some people still want a bigger name thogh
  15. Sep 7, 2013

    psychdelicblues Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    Electric Ladyland
    Have you seen the Anderson thread?
  16. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina The Bed Sheet Stalker

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    50,257
    I think Twigg is just upset because we signed a midfielder.
  17. Sep 7, 2013

    #07 makes new threads with tweets in the OP

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    12,494
    Arguably. What isn't arguable for me is that after that dark day against City he was rushed back into the first XI for the Everton game in which all of a sudden we looked so much more composed, at least until he did his ankle again hitting that long pass. After that we instantly went back to looking cak til Scholesy came back in January 2012.

    If I have a criticism of Clev it's that he doesn't drive forward as he used to. In that Shield game maybe Tom was working on adrenaline but he showed no fear of actually running with the ball if the pass wasn't on. Nowadays, if there's no obvious option to play the ball to, Clev just turns around and lays it off to Rio or Vida. It's a conservative change and a negative one IMHO. We know when there's good movement ahead of him Cleverley can thread passes to players, that was clear for England against Scotland and when Chico and Nani came on at Anfield. What he needs to do more of, or go back to doing, is taking responsibility for the ball and commit people so as to create space for others.
  18. Sep 7, 2013

    Raees Full Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    17,739
    Location:
    Walking in a Pogbawonderland
    Cleverley's big issue is the lack of goals, Carrick is a DM but Cleverley is meant to be an all-round midfielder but he lacks penetration in the attacking third, barely any assists and not enough of a goal threat... its frustrating because everything about him suggests he can develop that to his game, he just needs to push himself to that next level.
  19. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    60,738
    Location:
    india
    Valencia is exotic :rolleyes:
  20. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina The Bed Sheet Stalker

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    50,257
    Well, he does have a sexy swagger to him.
  21. Sep 7, 2013

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    60,738
    Location:
    india
    Thanks for quoting my attempt at posting a smiley, cina. Thanks a fecking lot!
  22. Sep 7, 2013

    Cina The Bed Sheet Stalker

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    50,257
    Oh shit, you were trying to do that? I thought you just just flirting with me "drool"
  23. Sep 7, 2013

    Robbie Boy Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2010
    Messages:
    9,314
    Location:
    Dublin
    He is 25 in a few days so he can't be classed as young or a prospect anymore. Really needs to step his game up this season. I thought he played well againt Chelsea and he really needs to be putting more of those performances in on a regular basis.

    I didn't think he played well againt Swansea (despite what some on here will say and get the passing stats out) or Liverpool; he badly needs to find consistency to his game. He has not shown enough to be an automatic starter for us and maybe he will get a-bit of a wake-up call with the arrival of Fellaini.

    He needs to find himself a niche in the team and as-of-now there is no particular part of his game that stands-out and if he is to make it here then that will have to change.
  24. Sep 7, 2013

    Twigginater The Special One!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    13,456
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.

    I think most posters are more upset than me at the signing of Felliani.
  25. Sep 7, 2013

    adexkola American Arse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    23,988
    Location:
    Does Young Metro trust you?
    Supports:
    orderly disembarking on planes
    He has to improve, sure, but I don't see the cause for all the impatience. He's earned time to make a case for himself. Selecting a few performances where our attacking cast has been impotent, to castigate him with is just myopic.
  26. Sep 7, 2013

    Ekeke Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    36,218
    Location:
    Hope, We Lose
    No, they get an easier ride because they have been our player of the season whilst Young has been our unbelievably overpriced signing of the season. And even then, do they get an easier ride? Valencia has been woeful and most people will admit it now, even if some took their time to face it.
  27. Sep 7, 2013

    MoneyMay Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    4,584
    Location:
    god shave our queen, speshly her hairy goat legs
    Nope, he's 24. His birthday has already passed.
  28. Sep 7, 2013

    KingEric7 Stupid Conspiracy Enthusiast Wanker

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    23,856

    Been some strange posts on here recently!
  29. Sep 7, 2013

    gooDevil Worst scout ever

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    25,162
    Location:
    The Kids are the Future
    Well, you know we only keep Anderson around to add some Brazilian flair. Not to the team, just to our image.
  30. Sep 7, 2013

    KingMinger22 City >>> United. Moaning twat

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    5,811
    Location:
    NYC
    Some players in our squad that hopefully Moyes will move on in the next year. I don't think Clev is one of them though. As he is through-and-through United, I hope he can become and remain a decent squad player for us.
  31. Sep 7, 2013

    AlwaysRedwood Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    8,032
    Location:
    LA

    Pre injury, post injury. Two different Cleverly's
  32. Sep 7, 2013

    George Owen Resident lepidopterist

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,933
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia

    i have to agree with this. I really like Cleverley, i think he is a very good player, but there is no way he already reached his ceiling. He can do much better and i expect he start showing it. Having said that, he is totally underrated around here and have done much better than some people think.
  33. Sep 7, 2013

    AlwaysRedwood Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    8,032
    Location:
    LA

    Young is lucky to still be part of the squad. He's just not top 4 material.
  34. Sep 7, 2013

    pocco loco

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    10,613
    Location:
    Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus
    I don't think an injury will affect his ability to find space or his movement in general.
  35. Sep 8, 2013

    AlwaysRedwood Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    8,032
    Location:
    LA

    Then it's entirely coincidental that he was inured and played only two games between Sept 2011 and Feb 2012 and hasn't looked the same player since.
  36. Sep 8, 2013

    Varun Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    35,221
    Location:
    Calcutta

    As pocco said, his movement and ability to find space and make himself available shouldnt be affected by injury. Its more likely to be what amol said, the players he's playing with now has affected it because ando as partner helped him in that regard. Even then though, he should be doing better but then so should the entire team really.
  37. Sep 8, 2013

    Annahnomoss Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    8,977
    I think the main reason that Cleverley looks out of depth is that his biggest strength defensively lays in a high pressing game. He shows glimpses of how fast he can start the press and how efficient he is with it even if he does it pretty much alone.

    Our way of playing, falling back to the box and relying on positioning and physicality to regain the ball is his absolute weakness. He is way out of his comfort zone trying to find positions and winning 50-50's.

    I think that if we played with high pressure instead, Cleverley would be part of our first team and we wouldn't buy Fellaini. Of course this clearly indicates that we most likely will not start using a high-pressure style, which is why we brought in Fellaini.
  38. Sep 8, 2013

    OneUnited24 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,351
    I think the main reason why Cleverley looks out of place is because hes a above average type of player which isn't what we (the fans) were hoping for. We were all looking for a creative playmaker type player when in my mind hes more a box to boxer like Fletcher but not as effective. His main attribute is his energy but in terms of final ball and finishing he we woefully below the mark. The good forward passing we see appears to be the exception rather than the rule

    Obviously I hope he will step up this year, maybe come out of his shell and try and impose himself rather than play those safe balls. But I am more hopeful of Anderson than Cleverley which is pretty damning...
  39. Sep 8, 2013

    Akash Another Muppet

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    22,418
    Cleverley has rarely looked out of depth. He's not spectacular by any means and we could do better than him but he's always done a good solid job next to Carrick.
  40. Sep 8, 2013

    AlwaysRedwood Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    8,032
    Location:
    LA

    And as I said, it's then down to a remarkable coincidence.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.