Tosic

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Mihajlovic, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. Jun 16, 2010

    Pexbo Takes body parts and sells them on Amazon.

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    Welcome to modern football. The sad thing is that the muppet fans think that any player brought in that is Foriegn "must be better than the English players we have". That's bollocks. English players of the same ability/potential cost a fortune whereas we can get players from Africa or Eastern Europe who could still blossom into great players for a snip of that price.

    It's low to no risk as if they make it we have a star on our ands and if they don't we make a profit on them.


    There are plenty of people who say he looks consistantly amazing and there is no grounds to say this. As for a player with "too much ability on the ball for reserve football" that is the problem he has, he flatters to decieve in that people seem to think he could be a better player than he is.

    He's got good feet and good passing but that's only a few ingrediants of the recipe that makes a great football player.

    He lacks physical presence to compliment his technique and passing which could see him make a good central player and he lacks the pace to afford him the time to make use of his deliveries as a winger.
  2. Jun 16, 2010

    Elliott Likes Loan Stickies

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    I don't agree with this. Chances are we knew he was small when we bought him and there's certainly more to his game than quick feet and passing ability. He's a very intelligent player, he's got good acceleration, a low center of gravity, his movement is good, he works hard, he's a tough little fecker, he comfy on either wing and now he's shown he can make 'em and take 'em in a good league. I'm not saying he didn't get his fair dues. Sir is a fair man and there are obviously shitloads of unknown parameters involved. But on the surface this whole saga seems a bit weird to me.
  3. Jun 16, 2010

    Pexbo Takes body parts and sells them on Amazon.

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    I was being very vague but what I said I still believe. He's not the complete package and because of that he's not a United player.

    That's all I'm arguing here, he was never going to play for United and now he's been sold and rightly so.
  4. Jun 16, 2010

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    Who have we made profit on?
  5. Jun 16, 2010

    Elliott Likes Loan Stickies

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    Fair enough, Pex.
  6. Jun 16, 2010

    Pexbo Takes body parts and sells them on Amazon.

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    Pique, Rossi, Foster, Manucho was signed for free and sold for an undisclosed fee.

    It's a fairly recent move for us to be bringing in lots of foriegn young players so alot of them are still at the club.

    Who of these do you expect to make it and who do you expect to be sold for a profit?:

    Obertan
    Diouf
    Possebon
    Petrucci
    Macheda
    Pogba


    They won't all make it but they are all a calibre of players who if they are sold... will definately be sold for more than we signed them for.

    It's good for business and good for the team as far as I'm concerned.

    If you take 10 young players in for 30 million, one hits the big time and plays for the first team while the other 9 get sold for profit ( Rossi, Foster and Pique netted us nearly £20m profit alone) then you not only have a great player on your hands but you got them for cheap and made more than your money back on the ones that didn't make it.
  7. Jun 16, 2010

    Amir Full Member

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    It is, and I suppose no harm was done to the club with the Tosic deal. But surely the main point of signing these players is looking for ones who can contribute to Manchester United.

    Whether Tosic was crap scouting or whatever, spending a few good millions on a player who the managerial team then decides is nowhere near good enough to get more than five substitute appearances, is not a good deal. It was certainly an error and you could say we were lucky to get away with this one and not make a huge loss.

    Having said that, I don't think it's crap scouting and I honestly don't believe Fergie and co just figured out 'oh, we signed a really bad player'. What happened, I have no idea. But I wouldn't be shocked if some sort of story like the one Fergie revealed a few years back about Kanchelskis's agent making threats at Martin Edwards comes about. I just don't think it's all about football. Tosic is not that bad, not by a long shot.
  8. Jun 16, 2010

    Wan Full Member

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    He was crap in Malaysia. Both times. There.
  9. Jun 16, 2010

    Wan Full Member

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    Nani, Park, Valencia, Giggs, Obertan
    Sayonara.
  10. Jun 16, 2010

    Pexbo Takes body parts and sells them on Amazon.

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    I think he was certainly part of the Ljajic deal.

    From what I could gather from all I read at the time, we tried to buy Tosic on the cheap but they wanted too much.

    Then we showed some real interest in Ljajic who was a very highly rated youngster. They wanted around £12m for him and we weren't prepared to pay that for such an unproven youngster.

    We went on to agree a deal for the both of them which was rumoured to be around £17m for the both of them.

    What you say about agents could be true as there were strong rumours at the time about the deal being held up as it had to go through so many minders and agents.

    Tosic joined us in the January while Ljajic stayed at Partizan. We then decided that Ljajic had not developed enough and in our own words:


    It was a very strange scenario because it is clear that we actually agreed a first option and price of transfer rather than agreed an actual transfer. This is obviously quite normal however Ljajic being photographed with Ferguson twisted things a bit.

    I have a feeling that it was these agents that were involved that brought Ljajic along to Tosic's signing and had him in the photo's aswell to increase the pressure to sign him as they would obviously get a fee from this.

    I also have a feeling that Ferguson might have seen all the baggage that came with Ljajic i the form of agents and minders and decided that it was more trouble than it was worth.

    It's obviously pure speculation from me from what I could put together from the few quotes and scenario that unfolded but if it is something along these lines then I guess it is possible that Tosic got unfair treatment because of the circus around him and Ljajic. I still think he just didnt make the cut.
  11. Jun 16, 2010

    datura Full Member

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    Llajic didn't join straight away as he was non-Eu and therefore had to wait until he turned 18 to join (like the Da Silvas).

    My reading of it was that we were looking at Llajic who was seen as one of the best talents of his generation in Europe and Tosic also stood out in the matches scouted (and had an impressive Olympics) and so for the money involved he looked like a good deal. Obviously it hasn't worked out for either unfortunately, hopefully the setback won't affect either adversely and they have good careers in the game.
  12. Jun 16, 2010

    dev1l Full Member

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    tbh that there could be an issue with the players' agents and middleman also passed through my mind. It's just speculation of course, but there is something strange about the whole story...perhaps too many things that remained unknown.

    Also, more speculation on my part, maybe this story also influenced the relationship between united and vidic. Remember last november when there was a reported bust up between the two.

    Anyway, maybe i am wrong, but the more i hear about this case, the more i m inclined to believe that vidic is on the way out
  13. Jun 16, 2010

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    Didn't profit on Pique. We didn't sell for much more than we bought him. Since he was too young when we got him you can only speculate on the complementary fee which you always have to pay for. Probably close to 5m. Then he was payed a lot of wages and bonuses whilst he was here so I don't think we profited from him.
    Similar with Rossi.

    The profit from Foster isn't enough to buy a youngster. Bought for 1m, sold for 4m with fees that could rise up to 6m. 5 years of wages.

    Manucho only played one game. He was signed because SAF was impressed with him after a three weak trial. He spent more time away from the club than he did at it. What's the point of all this if your only getting like 1-2m at the most. The most.

    I think Obertan, Diouf and Possebon will all be sold without any real profit. Macheda, Petrucci and Pogba have all the potential and ability to make it. The latter two are some way to go though.

    Like I said, I have no problem with us buying those U-20 year olds. Especially those 15-18.
  14. Jun 17, 2010

    Kelvin Banned

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    ‘his parting shot: United Didn’t Give Me A Chance’
  15. Jun 18, 2010

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    Awwww.... lightweight average player feels he should have been 'given' a chance at Utd. Most would see being signed by one of the biggest clubs in the world as being given a chance, if he wasnt good enough to take advantage of it thats not really the clubs fault is it?

    How do you become a player? Well, if at 23 you dont know that Zoran, I can see why you've been shipped out.

    Interesting the mentality of these players, they train day in day out and have the chance to force their way into things yet feel they should be 'given' the chance to play in the first team, sorry mate, thats something you have to earn.
  16. Jun 18, 2010

    IhabX7 Full Member

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    he's not average though..
  17. Jun 18, 2010

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    No, he's clearly world class which is why a host of Europes top clubs have been vying for his services since he became available.... oh wait....
  18. Jun 18, 2010

    SecondFig Full Member

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    We didn't really. I feel sorry for the guy, he was a massive United fan - there are photos of him with United posters on his bedroom wall - and I still think the whole Tosic/Ljajic debacle was a mess. Whether we signed one to get the other or whatever the feck happened, it was a mess.

    Obviously he's not world class, and I suspect he probably wasn't good enough for United, but I still think the way the whole Partizan Belgrade transfers were handled was a mess
  19. Jun 18, 2010

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    Players should do their talking on the pitch.... fact is he wasn't good enough to get in ahead of any of the wide options we already have.
  20. Jun 18, 2010

    Amir Full Member

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    Is he really so inferior to Obertan he couldn't get a start in his year at the club (until his loan) was Gabby got several in his first few months?
  21. Jun 18, 2010

    Striker10 "Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football

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    Disappointing but we move on. Wish him well. It streamlines the squad somewhat and that in itself isn't a bad thing as I think we have a few too many players with it all to prove.

    He's a better prospect then people give him credit for. He might not have been suited on the wing in the premiership though in a forward three he would have given us something - that said what we can't give him is football week in week out with the wingers we already have
  22. Jun 18, 2010

    Scholesy Full Member

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    I agree. Hes actually a great player - the type that we could have done with in the hole behind Rooney instead of Gibson/Park. Some people will claim he is not good enough because Fergie never game him a chance in the first team. I would rather look at the games I have seen him play and he is certainly a player I regret we sold.
  23. Jun 18, 2010

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    Haven't you answered your own question there?

    Personally I thought Obertan did quite well up the the Leeds game, and he wasnt alone in his shitness in that one.
  24. Jun 18, 2010

    Amir Full Member

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    No blame to Obertan, I think he's a good talent. I also think Tosic is a good talent. I just don't see why one was given chances almost straight away after he became fit, while the other never got it at all. He'd have to have been total crap for us to play millions for him and never give him more than a few minutes as a substitute. And there's no way he's crap.
  25. Jun 18, 2010

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    There's a million potential reasons, fact is the people watching him train every day obviously didn't feel he had enough to offer for one reason or another.

    Live with it, move on and prove your doubters wrong on the field.
  26. Jun 18, 2010

    Amir Full Member

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    Which I'm sure he will. Can't blame him for his "parting shot". He's just telling it like it is.

    Like I said, for us to have signed him for millions only to realise in training he can't get a game, is one heck of a cock up.
  27. Jun 18, 2010

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    Of course you can blame him for his parting shot, he's supposed to be a professional, if he'd been snapped up by a top team in Italy or Spain then maybe I could understand, fact is it was a toss up between CSKA (who admittedly are decent side in a shit league) and Cologne so while he might believe he has the quality to play for a top European club like Utd, it seems he's the only one.

    Telling it like it is, how it is is that he got a shot at Utd, for whatever reason wasn't seen as good enough and has been moved on to a lower league which may suit him a bit better, it happens to lots of players.
  28. Jun 18, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Oh dear. This post is so full of shit, I don't even know where to begin.

    The really stand out piece of idiocy is the bit where you turn your nose up at a profit of 1-2 million quid. WTF?
  29. Jun 18, 2010

    MrK Full Member

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    To be fair, he didn't even particularly stand out in the pre-season friendlies he got games in as far as I can remember. I think we have to trust Fergie's judgement on this one, he really isn't the type of manager who would hold a player back from the first team unless he didn't think there was a chance that he'd thrive.
  30. Jun 18, 2010

    CnutOfAllCnuts Bald Boring Cnut

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    We paid a low nominal fee for Pique, and sold him for £6m! No way did we pay £5m for him. Probably no more than £500k.

    Same goes for Rossi. On Rossi and Pique we probably made a £10m profit.

    Foster's wages would have been paid to another 2nd/3rd choice goalie if Foster hadn't been at the club, so irrelevant.
  31. Jun 18, 2010

    Devil_forever You're only young once, you can be immature f'ever

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    Popper, while I agree that he may not have been good enough to ever be a first choice for us but would a team like CSKA (champions league side) pay millions for a player who is deemed not good enough for even a start in the carling cup? Not one start. No one's saying he was first team material but not even a start in the carling cup, while doing well on the international stage and commanding a 7 figure transfer fee to a champions league side? Doesn't add up imo. There may have been other factors as to why SAF never gave him a chance and those factors may indeed justify SAF's decision to do so but I'm not so sure that it was purely footballing ones.
  32. Jun 18, 2010

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    Well maybe the fact that he feels he should have been 'given' a chance, and that he's moaning the minute he's sold, points to an attitude problem.

    I thin kthe bottom line might be that while he's decent, he's not decent enough and that the coaching staff feel there are better prospects at the club that will go further than him.
  33. Jun 18, 2010

    Pexbo Takes body parts and sells them on Amazon.

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    I have no idea wether Obertan will train on and fulfil his potential but he has only been here for a year now and was struggling with a persistant back injury which we cured and then gave him a short run in the first team before his long run in the ressies.

    Obertan is tall, strong, quick, skillful and has shown an eye for a pass and recently an eye for goal. He's been offered loan positions recenetly but reportedly "had a chat with Ferguson at the end of the season" and was encouraged enough to stay on at United. That sounds to me like Ferguson has promised him he will have the opertunity to get some first team action next year and with Nani and Valencia as first choice wingers he'd be the natural first choice when we're looking for pacey explosive backup.
  34. Mar 14, 2012

    SecondFig Full Member

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    Scored tonight against Real... glad he's doing alright
  35. Mar 14, 2012

    SecondFig Full Member

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  36. Mar 14, 2012

    JayWalker Ball Spotter

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    Great goal.
  37. Mar 14, 2012

    Minkaro Full Member

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    Very nice goal.
  38. Mar 14, 2012

    Sw33t Full Member

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    Cracker that! Lovely little goal.
  39. Mar 15, 2012

    Sojiro Formerly MST3K

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    Was a cracking goal, had just flipped from the chelski game and saw it.
  40. Sep 6, 2012

    evil_geko Full Member

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    Tosic: I Shouldn’t Have Left United


    The transfer in January 2009 of Zoran Tosic and his team mate, Adem Ljajic, was a strange one. United agreed a deal that could be worth up to £17m for the pair, with Llajic due to stay with Partizan Belgrade for the rest of the season.

    However, United later pulled of out the deal to sign Ljajic, only for him to go on to sign for Fiorentina the following year. Tosic made a total of five appearances for United and enjoyed a successful loan period with Cologne, scoring 5 goals in 13 games.

    Tosic wasn’t prepared to wait for United to play him regularly so five days after returning from his loan he signed for CSKA Moscow. Now, the Serbian has a few regrets over his decision.

    “It all happened really quickly as I played for just 18 months with Partizan Belgrade,” he said. “We won the league and the cup and there was a period when it seemed like I was scoring in every match. It was at that point I signed for Manchester United. It was such an exciting moment to go there and to meet Sir Alex. I had grown up as a United fan so to be working for the man who had brought so much success to the club was just unbelievable. However, there is a big difference between the Serbian and English league and when I arrived in Manchester I discovered I was not yet ready for that level. I spoke with Sir Alex many times and he kept telling me I had quality and just had to keep working hard. But I wanted to play more games so went to Cologne in Germany on loan and had a great six months there. When I came back to Manchester I was expecting to play more games for United but it didn’t happen. In the end I wasn’t sure I was going to get the chance I felt I deserved so decided to change club. Even now I am always thinking about that moment. Maybe I shouldn’t have been so quick and should have worked longer to show Sir Alex. Maybe I should have stayed and fought for my place. This was Man United after all.”


    http://therepublikofmancunia.com/tosic-i-shouldnt-have-left-united/#respond

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