UEFA Champions League Quarter Final fixtures (9th - 10th, 16th - 17th April 2019)

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Utdfrom2002, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. Apr 10, 2019

    Schneckerl Full Member

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    Really annoyed by the ref in the Utd - Barca game, so inconsistent how he gave yellow cards.
  2. Apr 10, 2019

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  3. Apr 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    If we won the CL I would wank myself in to oblivion.
  4. Apr 10, 2019

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    ^

    Quoting this to the new page. Does anyone know how it works?
  5. Apr 10, 2019

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    No-one told me the famous cheese room was a DIY project.
  6. Apr 10, 2019

    Ajaxsuarez Full Member

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    nope literally zero replacement. only options are Blind to left back but then break up our defensive pairing, with magallan taking his cb spot, which was what we did against Feyenoord and lost 6-2. Other option would be playing Sinkgraven there who did well in that position under Bosz but has then been out for a year and a half with an injury and is an unknown quantity at this point though hasn't impressed in the few minutes he's been given (such as the second half in that 6-2 loss...)

    The third option and the one I suspect will be Ten Hag's choice will be the usual right back Mazraoui, who was suspended tonight, as left back with veltman staying as the right back. Tagliafico is incredibly important defensively and offensively for keeping the width (bombed up there tonight as well) and we're going to be missing that massively whichever option we go for
  7. Apr 10, 2019

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Thanks for the detailed reply. Keeping this CB pairing should definitely be the priority so that makes sense.
  8. Apr 10, 2019

    Random Task Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    I will revisit this post in the event of a Spurs CL triumph.

    Wouldn't worry too much, there is more chance of Salah playing 90 minutes without a controversial moment occurring than Spurs winning a trophy.
  9. Apr 11, 2019

    Briman63 New Member

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    Or Pogba putting in a performance for 90 minutes ;)
  10. Apr 11, 2019

    FigmentOfYerImagination New Member

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    Not a bad match strategically, shame Ziyech in particular, but several others had a bit of an off-day with his aim. Van de Beek was unlucky that shot in first half went just wide as it got away just a bit too far for him to get full control and plenty of chances created that should have been at least on target. IMO Juve got away in much the same way that Bayern got away twice and Real Madrid got away in the first leg.

    I see ample opportunity to win the second leg or get two goals in for a 2-2.

    Juve was stronger in duels than Madrid, but lacked a plan beyond “hope for a succesful counter”, while their defensive wall was full of holes. I’ve seen Andorra defend better, tbh. At times Ajax was just passing around in cramped spaces in their 16 without any Juve player getting a touch in.

    So yeah, wide open semi-final, could be anyone’s game. Let’s hope Juve will give away more space like many teams do when they play at home. That’s exactly what Ajax likes.

    There is both Mazraoui and Rasmus Kristensen who could play RB or LB (in my experience backs can play on either wing reasonably well, the job isn’t different aside from mirrored) and yeah, Veltman could be placed LB when either of the above plays RB. Sinkgraven is probably still recuperating.

    But yeah, Magallan could be placed in CB allowing Blind to go LB. However, I would expect Mazraoui RB and Veltman LB.

    Alternatively de Jong could be placed as offensive CB instead of midfield (think ‘90s Danny Blind), placing Tadic on midfield instead and Dolberg or Huntelaar as striker.

    There is plenty options tbh.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  11. Apr 11, 2019

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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  12. Apr 11, 2019

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    He pulled him with both hands... first with the right then with the left. Rugani could have definitely got to the ball if he wasn’t being held down. He fell theatrically but it is a foul and if he doesn’t fall they never call it.

    How that didn’t warrant for the ref to go check it is beyond me, especially since the VAR guys decided it wasn’t a penalty after 5 seconds. It was genuinely the fastest VAR decision I’ve ever seen.
  13. Apr 11, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Especially with Kane out :(
  14. Apr 11, 2019

    Sjaakmeoff Full Member

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    Because the instructions are that the VAR only lets the ref check when he makes an obvious mistake. And it wasn't. Anyway. It wasn't given. Carry on.
  15. Apr 11, 2019

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Maybe I’m too used to the Portuguese use of VAR where every decision takes 5 minutes
  16. Apr 11, 2019

    Siorac Full Member

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    This is a depressingly accurate evaluation, unfortunately.

    But I expected much worse so I can't complain too much.
  17. Apr 11, 2019

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    He didnt need to go down at all, it's just the llayacting
    He does hold him with both hands, but it's just so soft. Honestly, viewing it a couple of times, I understand what you mean, but still, I don't think it's a glaring mistake by the ref.

    Admittedly I'm a bit biased being Dutch of course.
  18. Apr 11, 2019

    FigmentOfYerImagination New Member

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    Ajax vs Juve match stats (source: The Guardian):

    Possession:
    61% vs 39%​
    Goal attempts:
    wide: 8 vs 5
    on target: 8 vs 1​
    Corners:
    4 vs 3​
    Fouls:
    13 vs 8​

    Was already surprised by the possession stats shown earlier, which were more along the lines of 53%-47%, sure didn't feel like that was accurate, so 61% seems closer. Ajax clearly had the upper hand and could, if not should have done mor with it. Still, better result than against Madrid. :)

    VAR did indeed check it, said it wasn't anything, so the ref wouldn't need to check. If the VAR was convinced there was something, or could be something (and they'd have seen it 4 times by then), then the ref would have been called to see it for himself. As such, it only took less than half a minute, so proper use of the VAR IMO. The VAR shouldn't needlessly cost time just to get every decision "right" (it's still subjective). It should remain streamlined or every match would cost 10-20 minutes extra, which would create problems both in frustration with supporters, but also with logistics for supporters and tv broadcasting. Calls should be made within half a minute to a minute tops and only if there's a really clear cut case for a second opinion (like the bad off-side call with regards to Suarez) and in other situations the benefit of the doubt should be given to the defending party.

    Refs are still getting the hang of the VAR, so expect them to sometimes take too much time, sometimes too little. Either way, I've seen Italians push Tadic with two hands for worse to win a header without Tadic getting a free kick as well, but did that warrant a VAR response? Ref still should be allowed to make decisions for the good of the match flow and in the spirit of the game. Tadic being stepped on his toe and kicked on his heel in one move by Bonucci could have been a yellow card as well, but VAR didn't check. The ref noticed a foul, but didn't assign a card, just handed out a warning. That's the ref's prerogative.


    Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the shoulder touch was extremely light, not forcing anyone to the ground and Rugani was nowhere near the ball, hence it's not a penalty and a very clear showdive by someone who failed to position himself properly, noticed he couldn't make it as it would have been out of reach anyway, felt a touch and decided to try for a penalty. IMO, if anything, it should have been a yellow card for theatrics. Too few of those being handed out, so hope VAR will do something about those. Doubt it though.



    Speaking of stats:


    CL 2019 Matches played


    ...M W D L G
    Ajax.........9 4 4 1 17-9
    Barcelona.9 6 3 0 20-6
    FC Porto...9 5 2 2 19-11
    Juventus...9 5 1 3 13-7
    Liverpool..9 5 1 3 14-8
    Man City...9 4 1 2 26-9
    Man Utd....9 4 1 4 10-7
    Tot. Hots...9 5 2 2 14-10

    Including CL qualification matches:
    ...M W D L G
    Ajax.........15 8 6 1 30-13
    Barcelona.9 6 3 0 20-6
    FC Porto...9 5 2 2 19-11
    Juventus...9 5 1 3 13-7
    Liverpool..9 5 1 3 14-8
    Man City...9 4 1 2 26-9
    Man Utd....9 4 1 4 10-7
    Tot. Hots...9 5 2 2 14-10
  19. Apr 11, 2019

    Sjaakmeoff Full Member

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    This, and don't be fooled by the "Italians don't want to have the ball" argument.

    Possesion Juve UCL 18/19
    Against:
    Valencia 45.8%
    Manchester United 60.5%
    Young Boys 59.6%
    Atletico Madrid 63.1%
    Ajax 39.2%

    Passes + accuracy
    Against:
    Valencia 425 (86%)
    Manchester United 646 (89%)
    Young Boys 565 (88%)
    Atletico Madrid 543 (87%)
    Ajax 381 (76%)
  20. Apr 11, 2019

    PGLFC91 New Member

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    I think Liverpool tie is pretty much over to be honest. If we manage to get knocked out to a team we beat 5-0 last season from a 2-0 position, it is all the one.

    The City and Spurs tie is in the balance but I'd still go with City to turn that around with it being against Spursy. Last season, at times it looked like they would turnaround the 3 nil deficit against Liverpool and if VAR was there, they might have!

    Ajax and Juve is also in the balance and given what Ajax did in the last round, there is no reason to think they could not go through. The Ronaldo factor leans me towards Juve though.

    And lastly I cannot see anything but a Barcelona victory at home next week. Messi won't be quiet two games in a row I believe and Barcelona aren't bottlers like PSG.
  21. Apr 11, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    All this shows is that they're happy to have the ball vs other teams who are more direct (United under Mourinho, Atletico Madrid etc) or simply inferior to them (Young Boys) but against more possession based sides like Ajax and Valencia they're probably not all that interested in a possession battle because they know that's the strength of these teams and they're better off playing in a different fashion. They're definitely not a possession orientated team - we had 67% of the ball in Turin last season!
  22. Apr 11, 2019

    giorno Full Member

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    Nah. They're an adaptive team who are comfortable defending without the ball. That doesn't mean they don't want it. Ajax forced them to play that way, it wasn't by design(same with you guys last season)

    Italian media have been waxing lyrical about Ajax today. The line is that juventus did very well to get a 1-1 draw
  23. Apr 11, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    I didn't say they don't want the ball, but it's certainly not a big part of their game. If they know it's a strength of the opposition they aren't going to engage in that battle and are happy to play on the counter.

    Ajax did brilliantly, no doubt about that, they played an incredible match. But having more of the ball vs Juventus in isolation isn't that impressive, we went to their backyard and had 67%, and we're not one of the best possession based teams out there either.
  24. Apr 11, 2019

    FigmentOfYerImagination New Member

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    Thing is, 90 minutes of defense wasn't Allegri's plan... They had hoped to keep de Jong under control and control midfield. He said post-match that entirely to their surprise de Jong knew instantly what was going on and threw a wrench into their plan by turning out of the situation time and again, which allowed Ajax to keep on attacking.


    I'm not surprised you're trying to diminish the feat though, because so far it's always the same when Ajax wins when people think or believe such a result isn't possible:

    "Off-day for opponent"
    "Lucky"
    "Injuries/missed that one player"
    "Not the strongest opponents in the lottery"
    "Opponent is over their prime"
    "Tired" (see the amount of Ajax matches this season btw...)

    And now it's "to be attacked all the time was probably their cunning plan", when the logical conclusion is that Ajax creates these situations.

    Hence sorry, no offense intended, but I'd argue this is likely you trying to find some excuses for Juventus' performance not living up to your expectations, while Ajax performed better than you expected. From my perspective, it would seem to be cognitive dissonance as you're trying to explain why your assessment in advance didn't match with what actually happened. I'd say a good portion of Dutch fans who have an inferiority complex towards the mega clubs are doing the same thing every day though, so you'd be in good company if it is. ;)



    Btw, as for why I mentioned the 2012 Man City results earlier: I did so because of what it represented: a youthful team overcoming a "clear and easy win for Man City's experienced team worth hundreds of millions" by system, sheer talent and enthusiasm.

    The current team has the same mentality and better performance, as it has contains more experienced players. Therefore I would assess their chances of winning as higher than it was then. As Ajax came out on top back then over two matches then, it should be possible now if they face Man City.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  25. Apr 11, 2019

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Juventus are often outpossessed by the worst teams in Serie A. The likes of Empoli and Bologna dominate the ball for large periods of the game against them. They very rarely get above 60% possession no matter who they’re playing against.

    What was special about Ajax was how easily they got themselves into dangerous positions, dominating possession was expected given this Juve midfield is average for this level.
  26. Apr 11, 2019

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    Even then it's better than the majority of teams remaining in the competition. Just shows how crazy this year has been.
  27. Apr 11, 2019

    RobinLFC Cries when Liverpool doesn't get praised

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    That's not necessarily true, and if they somehow are, it's simply Allegri's fault for not making them play better. On paper, they are better than, or at least equal to:

    Schone - de Jong - Van de Beek
    Fred - McTominay - Pogba
    Fabinho - Keita - Henderson
    Torres - Pereira
    Sissoko - Winks - Eriksen

    Only Barcelona and City have a clearly superior midfield on paper. The quality that Juve has is certainly not below average compared to the other teams in the QFs, and if they are dominated, it's because that's the style Juventus wishes to play or because Allegri doesn't get the best out of his players.
  28. Apr 11, 2019

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    Robin read my mind :lol: I agree - Only City/Barca have better midfields.
  29. Apr 11, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Agreed. Allegri does not care about possession, yes they will have it in certain games but they surrender it time and time again against half decent sides.

    I reiterate, we are not one of the best possession sides out there, yet we went to Turin and had 67% (!) of the ball in that game.

    A decent pressing team can easily have the lion's share of the ball vs Juve, it's what they do with it which is what matters, and from the highlights it's clear Ajax were excellent at developing good attacking situations. They were creative & forward thinking with that possession.
  30. Apr 11, 2019

    FigmentOfYerImagination New Member

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    Yet that doesn't explain why Allegri said the match didn't go at all according to their plan. You're insinuating they chose to give possession away, but Allegri explicitly said post-match that wasn't the intention as they wanted to control midfield, but were forced into an epic "only Italians can defend like this" defense.


    Have you considered that maybe Tottenham outplayed Juventus then with good pressing?
  31. Apr 11, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    I don't really care what Allegri says. The way his team sets itself up in Europe against any half decent pressing/ball playing side goes completely against that.

    They consistently have far less of the ball against sides like that, whether it be in Serie A or in the CL. I look at actions, not words.
  32. Apr 11, 2019

    FigmentOfYerImagination New Member

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    So they say they had a plan and that it failed, they improvised, managed and then you claim that's the real plan because clearly they can't fail in their plans. Okay.

    EDIT: Could you please just consider for a moment that Allegri may simply not be that good in setting his team up well against a pressing team and that their default response then is a defensive counter?

    (sorry for the edits btw, only got 5 posts to work with per day :))
  33. Apr 11, 2019

    Casanova85 Full Member

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    Prediction:

    Liverpool vs Barcelona
    Man. City vs Juventus
  34. Apr 11, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    :lol:

    Wow.

    No, I'm saying it's no big deal for Ajax to have more possession than Juventus, because it happens all the fecking time to them in Europe, regardless of what Allegri is spouting off in pressers.

    Is that clear enough for you?
  35. Apr 11, 2019

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    Pretty safe predictions, and hard to disagree with.

    Spurs/City is still a flip for me, and I do think Ajax can go through. If Ajax get past Juve, I think they'll make the final after beating Spurs/City, where they'll play either us/Barca.

    If Barcelona play like they did yesterday at Anfield, I think we'd win the home game at least, depending on how the league is shaping up & whatnot. Probably get spanked in Spain, though.
  36. Apr 11, 2019

    RobinLFC Cries when Liverpool doesn't get praised

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    If we face Barcelona, the first game will be at Nou Camp, and we always have a chance at Anfield in the return leg since I don't see us losing 3-0 or whatever in Spain.

    Barcelona were far from convincing yesterday, I think it'd be close to 50/50 should we meet them. I even switched to the Ajax game for the second half because Barca were so dull.

    Ajax vs City
    Liverpool vs Barcelona

    Liverpool vs City :cool:
  37. Apr 11, 2019

    Casanova85 Full Member

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    Ahh hhahha
  38. Apr 11, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    I feel like we agree?

    I absolutely think that Juve/Allegri simply can't play a possession game when they come up against a side who can press well, hence the games vs Spurs and Ajax. Even pretty average sides who have a pressing game can out possess Juve.

    I don't think they're ever really dedicated to keeping the ball though, a side dedicated to possession would emphasise more coaching which helped them become more press resistant. This juve side surrender dominance quite easily, regardless of their intentions from kick off.

    All I'm saying is that Ajax having a lot of the ball doesn't surprise me at all from what I know about Juve in Europe. I'd have been far more surprised if Ajax were the ones with less possession.

    What impresses me is not their possession %, but what they were doing with the ball. It wasn't turgid possession play.
  39. Apr 11, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Liverpool would have a very good chance of beating this Barca side .. why the laughing?
  40. Apr 11, 2019

    RobinLFC Cries when Liverpool doesn't get praised

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    ?

    It's hard to take any post serious from a guy supporting Barcelona and United, but this one particularly puzzled me.