Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by United_We_Stand, Feb 5, 2018.
did you start watching football in 2014?
Foiled once again.
It's 100% a stewarding issue. Our travelling support is incredible, and we're always oversubscribed for away ballots, so you can't tell me the noisemakers are gone. United need to seat those fans who always go to aways together, and let us do what we want I.e. Stand / sing, like an extended J Stand section
I used to make the trek from Canada once a year since 2008 but stopped going around 2014 because quite frankly it stopped being fun.
Nothing about the play or results stopped me because I saw some bad games with Fergie as the manager.
It had everything to do with feeling like I was walking on eggshells because the last thing I wanted to do was get kicked out. “Don’t stand up” , “don’t swear”, “don’t criticize anything”. It was fine when I was a kid, but going to sporting events in North America we get as drunk as humanly possible and cause hell for opposing teams. None of this led to hooliganism or severe crowd trouble so I don’t want to hear that it’s a problem because of drinking.
Yes the atmosphere has been getting worse for years, but there’s definitely been a step change decline this season.
The patches of passion that existed in the North Stand around us have completely disappeared, and there are even long periods of silence from the Stretford.
The increase in the number of people who disappear ten minutes before half time and don’t reappear until well into the second half obviously doesn’t help.
Van Gaal's second season was by far the worst I've seen Old Trafford. This season is nothing compared to that.
Sensible response from the United Supporter's Trust:
The team local to me had a big Copa de l Rey game about two years ago, the furthest they'd ever got in the competition. For the home leg, the management encouraged some of our Ultras, that normally sit in one particular section of the ground to infiltrate the main, covered stand. In normal games, there was one guy in the main stand that would start the singing, but outside of a radius of a few rows, it didn't really do much. With the Ultras in the stand, the singing was co-ordinated and pretty-much continuous for the entire game.
That said, the songs they have are family-friendly. There are some unsavoury phrases, particular to Spanish football that might be shouted from time to time aimed at opposition players, but it was always this way.
The problem to me with many of the songs at Old Trafford, is that they are not family-friendly. And since it's become more of a day out, rather than a place for United die-hards to follow their team week-in, week-out, I think it's probably unreasonable to expect said families to join in with what feels like a majority of the more well-known songs.
tldr: Instead of encouraging a particular singing section, encourage singing 'leaders' within each section, and tone down some of the more potentially offensive chants. There'd be a big difference, regardless of the occasional dross served up on the pitch in slower games.
Funnily enough the most vocal support I have heard in recent years was during the Moyes year!
From my (admittedly limited; mainly midweek matches) experience it’s definitely worse now, despite games being rather more incident-filled than they tended to be under LvG. I reckon it’s not helped by the increasing number of attendees who appear to have little or no interest in the football.
Absolutely! What a great time it was to go wild wild wild
It's a guess on my part but I reckon the age group of people attending games is increasing over the years. Ticket and associated costs of attending games is very high for the young.
It's also become, or fast becoming a tourist attraction. A boasting place on social media platforms for those visiting the games.
PS: United also lost their most hardcore atmosphere creating fans when the Glazers took over in 2005.
I stopped going when they confiscated my tickets. Even though I have access to tickets I don't have a desire or even miss going. I've broken a habit of a lifetime and it was easy.
My wish is for broadcasters to give me a choice to watch every United game at home.
If people are not singing, maybe because they just don't know the words. The official site should post the songs and the lyrics on social media as often as possible. We have millions followers. Bring it to them. Flood them if you like. Don't wait for them to go looking. Some people just don't know how. I think that if they know the words and how to sing it, they might join in.
I have no idea what you're singing apart from some short and simple ones like "Viva Ronaldo", "Rooney the white Pele" and they're no longer with us. I'm sure if I know more I will sing if I can go.
Going to a match at OT is a dream for us fans. I think they will try to make the most of it for their a few or one chance in a life time.
My dad was the same in that he found it easy to stop going. I don't know when he exactly stopped because I don't speak to him that much but he had be going to Old Trafford for decades starting in the 70s I believe (away games included) and stopped because he felt it just wasn't the same anymore. He stopped many years ago, though, so it wasn't the after Fergie blues that put him off.
He's gone off football as a whole now which I find incredibly sad as he's the one he got me hooked onto the sport and United. I mean, he still catches the highlights and whatnot but he doesn't feel the need to catch the games anymore, so if he misses it he doesn't really care. I've asked him if he fancies going to Old Trafford together at some point and he's not said no but I get the feeling it's not something he fancies.
I gave up my season ticket when weekend matches stopped being regularly at 3 on a Saturday; i.e. eons ago. Sunday football and singing in a Cathedral choir aren’t compatible.
I go as often as I can and still love it, but it’s as much about the pre-match beer, the banter with old friends and the inevitable Metrolink moaning than the atmosphere at the actual match.
And the post match curry, obvs. And the football, most of the time.
This is the main reason imo and it's not only Old Trafford that's effected by it.
If you treat fans as customers and seek out day trippers it will have an affect over time. Jose has called the fans out enough times now also. He should stick to figuring out how to get the best out of our best players.
I used to stand on the Stretford End in the early 80s and look at the United Road seating and think. ..how boring.
I could blame seating (and there is some blame) but I generally think it more to do with older...more middle class and tourist fans.
Even in my late 20s and early 30s I used to jump up and down watching United even on the TV....but now...Whilst enjoying it still, I've realised it is a brand...it's a group of ridiculously over payed prima Donnas, so self centred they rarely interact with the fans.
Maybe I've fallen out of love with football but I just couldn't be arsed after a 60 hour week going to watch the dull uninspiring football we churn out.
I used to go to every game home and away but stopped around 89. After a seasons break I went to a game and stood in the Scoreboard end (I may have my years a bit mixed but it was around that time) and i remember even then thinking how bored I was.
Let's face it...it is dull as feck...expensively dull as feck.
It's what you get when you make tickets as overpriced as they are and football an experience for 2 year old kids.
Safe standing, singing section, allowing banners could all help. And although I'm not advocating Ultras, getting the guys going to the away games in an organised section at OT would be awesome as well. God there's endless potential but I doubt any will to change anything.
Designated seat numbers is a problem - it stops groups of friends/family sitting together. It stops people migrating to the bit of the ground where they feel most at home - including the bits with a lot of standing/singing.
Though the blame gets placed on day trippers, I think the issue is bigger than that. A lot of ageing season ticket holders, and a lot of season ticket holders who can't make every game but who have no easy way to pass those tickets on.
So some will buy the season ticket to make sure they've got access to the big games, but will either leave the seat empty or show up with a pretty tired/indifferent attitude at some small ones.
Some game timings are horrible - I hate the 5:30s for example, they need the afternoon and the evening. Add the queue to be searched, the traffic jam to get there, the walk in the rain (it's been a bad year for it) and by the time people are in their seat the spirits are well and truly dampened.
The best atmosphere last year I think was for the Chelsea match. A mix of the fact it was a big game against the leaders, us getting hammered at Stamford bridge, and Mourinho. When the team was read out (with a couple of stars missing) the crowd got even more psyched up for it, the team started fast.
But we don't play big games every week, which means the club needs to look at the rest of it. Including the things that they can control, like seat zoning, position of the hospitality seating, easier relocations, and ticketing systems that ensure all seats get filled (not just paid for) every game.
This. I stood on the Stretty mid 70s through to late 80s like yourself and agree wholeheartedly.
A lot of these ideas re improving the atmosphere are a waste of time. The game has changed, people have changed and their relationship with the game has changed. You can't recreate the atmosphere of 30 years ago.
That's true, I'm from the same era, but I'm conscious that part of that old relationship is that it started young. I saw my first game with my dad. I saw others with family members or with friends. I became confident enough to go alone and go and join my age group (and attitude group!) on the terrace or even sometimes in the cheap seats at the back of the Stretford End.
It's hard for families to go together now, or friends to go together, which makes it hard for kids to find their place in the crowd. I think that's often a ticketing issue - there may be seats available, even in the same block, but not together.
Obviously prices don't help, but some of this is more of a technical or policy issue than a revenue one for United.
You cannot have loud stadiums with an electric atmosphere and be family or tourist friendly at the same time. You need to pick your poison.
Flags and banners like the Kop end
Remember the Real Madrid game and Sir Alex' last game at Old Trafford?
The banners and flags... So good
We sit quite close to J Stand and the atmosphere is usually quite good around us. My voice is almost always gone the next morning.
One thing I do notice is that the quality of the opposition makes a big difference to the stewards, and consequently the atmosphere. If we're playing, say, Liverpool, we'll be stood up the whole match and the stewards won't even try to ask us to sit down. If on the other hand we're playing Stoke, we'll be asked to sit down not two minutes after kick off, which really has an impact on atmosphere. It's just so much easier to belt out a chant when you're on your feet.
There is one other reason that I don't think has been mentioned in the thread so far. It might just be my perception but it seems more people are sensitive to the songs being sung and don't want to join in on some of the crass chants. When I was younger I'd sing whatever was going, it was all part of the atmosphere, but these days I do sit out some of the songs that are shall we say a little crude. When you think about it we do have a lot of songs that include words that a lot people don't feel comfortable saying unless they're completely hammered. Is that why some of the more joyous songs are heard so much louder? I love it when 20 Times or Toni Martial Came From France are being sung - everyone seems to partake in those. But then when it switches to "he's a c*nt, your mum's a c*nt, etc..." only a few are singing. The crowd has changed - there are more women and children - but the songs haven't quite changed with the times. We should hardly be singing nursery rhymes to the opposition, mind, but perhaps a little less profanity would actually help the atmosphere going forward.
I remember going to the semi final v Dortmund and sitting in the corporate bit . A friend and I were taken by a Doctor who was associated with UEFA and while it was nice to be there it wasn't my idea of a great night at OT. I was the only one shouting in the whole area, I must have shocked the man in front as he turned round at one point and it was Eusebio. Football has changed too much imo
I think this is a really interesting point. It seems to be that the songs that are particularly popular with the away crowd are popular because they're close (or probably in my opinion a bit over the edge). At Old Trafford if you want songs to be picked up by the wider crowd then are we really surprised that a song about going on a piss up with an ex-player who died of alcoholism, to pick one example, isn't being belted out by the entire crowed – even if it is a catchy tune? I don't think that's close to being the biggest issue, but it's an interesting angle nonetheless.
This is one possibility. I went to the Allianz and was given a section to go in. Everyone is allocated a seat I think (can't remember) but you just stood wherever (allowed to stand) within the section you were permitted to. Atmosphere was great, and that was at an 1860 Munich game where the stadium was maybe 3/4 full.
Some attempt to group the vast majority of our away following when at home would also help I would imagine.
Block ticketing at affordable prices would help. Gets big groups of mates stood together like at away games. Preferably in the lower stretford end or near the away fans.
Same here. I first went with my late Dad and eventually being allowed to join up with mates and go in a group of 6 of us about aged 14 upward.
This is it. A large part of that atmosphere was the product of tribes of young local lads coming face to face with each other in a football ground and having a go. Like it or not there was an animosity on the terraces and on the pitch too. Going to the match was not a day out for the sensitive or the easily offended. That animosity has also left the game - there'll be no more Keane like tunnel incidents.
The sanitisation of the game and the erosion of the atmosphere was all firmly predicted and the pubs on match day are full of the people who used to make the atmosphere what it was and who can still be arsed to watch.
What connect there was between club and community has been broken and it's not fixable.
Fair play to the higher ups for doing this, there should be far more engagement with match going fans and not just MUST.
I'd agree with this. It was electric. Also Madrid 2003. Fat Ronaldo hat trick, the atmosphere that inspired Roman to invest in football (well, that and Putin with an AK47 to the back of his head). And Roma 7-1.
I don't really agree with Mourinho's comments about Fratton Park, the atmosphere wasn't that good, just a couple of children banging a drum and some numpty in a jesters hat ringing a bell does not make a great atmosphere.
This will probably go down like a lead balloon with the masses, but we should look to try and adopt the European stadia (not completely copying however) get a few people with megaphones and see if they can get the fans on their feet.
Barca 2nd leg 2008 was incredible as well. Actually felt like you played a part in the victory, helping them over the line.
what? The atmosphere has been shocking for years.
Hey Jose what about you concentrate on getting a style and a formation that gets the best out of the fortune that you have spent instead.
OT has been shit for AT LEAST a decade. Probably more.
Careful - we could end up with cheerleaders
anyway, it's true, guys ... for years, old trafford is no longer the same as before, it does not rock anymore. it's a problem
The bolded part would completely kill off any atmosphere and attendances would drop alarmingly, no chance it'll ever happen.
My problem is that they've made too much of OT corporate/VIP seating. I used to sit just next to the quadrant linking the Stretford End to the SAF stand, the atmosphere was buzzing and it helped carry it over from the Stretford End and it worked. Unfortunately, they've made it into VIP seating and now we're about 40 seats away from where we used to sit and the atmosphere is dead because it doesn't get carried over anymore.
I'm sure there's a few articles that the club would be in favour of introducing safe-standing, that would help also but we're a while away from that I think.
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