United executives to meet fans to discuss Mourinho's complaints over the 'quiet' atmosphere at OT

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by United_We_Stand, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. Feb 7, 2018

    MancunianAngels Full Member

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    There's been debate surrounding the atmosphere at OT since the 90s. In fact, people on Red Issue Sanc have recently pointed out that there was complaints about the atmosphere in the mid to late 80s aswell. It is hardly a new phenomenon.

    At Old Trafford, there are three big issues but all link to a wider culture problem. Now, in theory, the ticket prices aren't that bad. £37 for any game compares favorably with most games on the continent (Germany aside from the big leagues) the main issue is that there too many season tickets which means that game by game fans are spread over the ground (making it difficult to sit with groups of mates). There's then the issue of all seater stadiums, there's generally 10,000 stood up for the big games and it does make a difference.

    I would also argue that we, as a society, have changed. There was more anger/passion in the "good old days" people were almost more politically switched on and perhaps that shows. The atmosphere definitely declined after the summer of 2005 when the Glazers took over.
  2. Feb 7, 2018

    R'hllor Full Member

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    There are all kinds of excuses for why atmosphere is like in vacuum. Which i wouldnt have that much problem with if same rules apply for when that same crowd moans,groans, boo etc. somehow all those elements stopping you to show support to your team vanish when you are unhappy with things you see on the pitch.

    There are plenty games in PL when you hear commentators say "home crowd getting restless" but earlier in the game you couldnt hear a pip from that same crowd.
    You want to be silent, not saying a single word of support, that people around you sit down, fine but then dont become active when things not looking good and dont start shouting curse words at your players, acting all angry, because they lose a ball what not.

    The hell, its a football game, where supposedly your team needs all the help it can get to win, its not a freaking movie.

    Anyone knows whats the amount of Palace home fans in that corner?
  3. Feb 7, 2018

    Paul778 New Member

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    Given the immediate predecessor LvG and his brand of snore football you would have thought it would be easy to get the crowd excited now. Just playing the occasional forward pass should. Do the trick.

    Start the game with urgency would be good and maybe we could score within 11 secs too.
  4. Feb 7, 2018

    Rifer Full Member

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    Play more counter-attacks.. direct with pace and power rather than our higher tendency to stop and cycling possession up-field.

    The former is more exciting to the crowds than the predictable expected latter.

    I don't know if it's due to Jose's instructions/coach or players's tactical understanding, since mainly Pogba tend to go all-out attack during counter.

    Hopefully him with Alexis now, we can improve this.
  5. Feb 7, 2018

    IndyDC New Member

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    We do not need any drums or trumpets - but every away game, our 2-3k outsing whatever size crowd put in front of them.

    Spurs away was an anomaly - one of the worst away ends I've been in, purely due to number of tourists getting hand on tickets (which had everything to do with both location and a midweek kick-off). You can rest assured that at Newcastle and Huddersfield, our away support will be back to its usual best.

    On this topic, even the attitude of our club towards flags is pathetic. The Scousers rightly take the piss when they laugh at the poxy flags in the J Stand. So many restrictions and limitations on us, it's no wonder most don't even bother trying to whip up an atmopshere at OT, because you are given the death stare by everyone else around you. Might as well be at the theatre.
  6. Feb 7, 2018

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    IMO, CFC and MUFC will finish 2nd/3rd, so with the CFC game looming, I am sure Jose wants to ramp things up.
    When you also consider the upcoming CL games, I think Jose wants the crowd to be our 12th man.
    For such a big stadium to be so quiet, is puzzling. I am unsure why people don't make more noise. The crowd have a big part to play in matches and I don't think they quite realise this.
  7. Feb 7, 2018

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    Although the theory that 3 times more fans at OT should make 3 times more noise seems logical, it actually doesnt work like that in practice - in fact the opposite it actually true when you compare Selhurst Park as small grounds are often much better acoustically in amplifying all the noise than our massive open ground where you cant really hear chants from one end of the ground to the other.

    I remember going to OT in the 80s/90s when the capacity was only around 50k but the low enclosed roof meant all the noise was kept in - the Stretford End and K Stand used to have a kind of rivalry of singing songs aimed at each other, doesnt happen nowadays as the new style open stands means the sound simply gets lost into the ether.

    I do agree with you on things like songsheets, drummers etc - but you will find a lot of opposition to things like that from our historic hardcore support.



    Well the club has already tried to do this with the J Stand singing section which started just a few years ago - I am in there and I stand every game with plenty of singing around me. It has not been as much of a success as it could have been (in terms of helping to improve the atmosphere in other areas of the ground) as the club rushed it through too quickly without thinking about all the ramifications, but it has improved the matchday experience for many at least and the atmosphere in J stand is not that different to an away game in my experience (I know that this can vary even to where exactly you are in J stand though).
  8. Feb 7, 2018

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    I do agree with this. But Lukaku also loves to counter attack. The guy bursts a lung when he gets the opportunity to counter, though I do feel some of our other players could do more to go from defence to attack in under 12 seconds (which prevents the opponent from re-organising their defence).
    Sanchez definitely won't slow down play during a counter, and Jose himself loves counter attacking football. There is absolutely no way that he will tell his players to slow down a counter.
  9. Feb 7, 2018

    IndyDC New Member

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    I applaud what they tried to do with the J Stand - but it doesn't go far enough. It needs to be a much bigger and much more prominent section. I am sat in the Stretford End, always surrounded by tourists because I'm in an Exec area - my reasoning being that I get priority for away games. Would love for Stretford End to have a standing section, or at least not be told to constantly sit down by the stewards. I'm on the backrow of W205, in front of Carrick's box, so when I stand up nobody's view is blocked, and I still get told to sit down!
  10. Feb 7, 2018

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    I thought it was mostly standing near the top of the Stretford End? Certainly was last few times Ive been in there but thats a few years ago now

    Sticking an Exec section in the Stretty was one of the worst moves by the club - a big factor in killing the atmosphere around there
  11. Feb 7, 2018

    squidoo New Member

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    Love your name. My dad drove the Barca team coach for the OT 2nd leg.
    You've hit the nail on the head when you say peoples relationship with the game has changed.
    And I will blame seating...having to sit where you'e put...not with friends...and no drinking in the stand...
    It's like being at school.
  12. Feb 7, 2018

    Ballache Full Member

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    Both tiers of the West Stand should be standing with cheaper tickets to attract younger fans. We can link up with a toilet paper sponsor to make up for lost revenue. Make the whole stand bounce. Our away support is incredible, no reason as to why we can't group 15-20k fans in one stand and generate a good atmosphere.
    Last match I was at vs Southampton, people gave me weird looks ever time I sang, the only decent noise was made when Mikhi made way for Martial.
  13. Feb 7, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Everybody that enters that Stadium should be forced(at gun-point if needed)to join in a good old fashion sing-a-long before they can purchase a programme and take their seat, you'd soon get the old place rocking again....



    For the hard of thinking, I was joking about gun-point, other weapons are available
  14. Feb 7, 2018

    Hughie77 New Member

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    Yes I could see that coming. Everytime I've been to OT the atmosphere has been good, the best is on a champions league night. The 3 oclocks are sometimes not that good, evening or night games under lights are better. Some sections are not as loud as others, I've sat in a few places and they sit, others just stand all game. One fellow told me once just stand up and sing if someone tells you to sit tell them where to go.. lost my voice that night...
  15. Feb 7, 2018

    ZupZup Full Member

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    I’d like to see a large safe standing section of unallocated ‘seats’ (standing areas) with a certain capacity... say you had 10,000 in one part of the ground.

    Fans could still have season tickets etc. in this zone but it’s just not specific like having your fixed seat. Obviously the earlier you get in, the more choice you get about where your stood... but you’d still get to stand near your mates.
  16. Feb 7, 2018

    Token Sheet Full Member

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    I've said this in previous threads about the same thing.
    Move the Stretford End tier 2 regular match goers into East Stand tier 2. I assume seat plan for both stands is virtually identical.
    You then have a relocated Stretford End, J Stand and K Stand all together.
    Add to that the close proximity of the away fans and in theory the noise level at the one end of the ground should improve the atmosphere.
    Also as there is no exec seating area (only stand that doesn't have one) you could consider a large bank of safer standing in tiers 1 and 2 of the East Stand.
  17. Feb 7, 2018

    Wal2Fra Full Member

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    It's the same here in France and also Australia too.

    There are designated member areas behind the goals (or atleast one goal) and they spend the game on their feet belting tunes, jumping and bringing an atmosphere that gets others involved and it's great!

    The Stade De France during a French home game is amongst the best atmosphere I have witnessed and the songs are simple and catchy (I even find myself singing along and i'm not even French) and it's all down to the members behind the goals.
  18. Feb 7, 2018

    TMDaines Full Member

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    "Move the Stretford End"...
  19. Feb 7, 2018

    TMDaines Full Member

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    Bit of a weird post. Pretty much of the whole of the Stretford End second tier is standing for the entirety of matches.
  20. Feb 7, 2018

    MV12 New Member

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    I think it's just the way 'people' are these days.. dumbed down and/or stressed out..
  21. Feb 7, 2018

    Acole9 Outstanding

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    Where's our famous atmosphere.
  22. Feb 8, 2018

    Godfather Full Member

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    I would allow banners in there and a megaphone.

    Make prices cheaper so a younger audience can afford tickets as well and things might slowly start to work.
  23. Feb 8, 2018

    Godfather Full Member

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    • Text Speak
    If other clubs can do it why can't United? I don't buy this "game has changed" thing. This would count for other clubs in other countries as well. Rapid Vienna's atmosphere is as good as ever for example.
    United may have changed sure. Big prices for tickets, making the whole event a family thing, not allowing ppl to stand, no banners, no flags. That's a United thing though.
  24. Feb 8, 2018

    Barca84 Full Member

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    That's Austria...we're talking about the UK here - there's a cultural difference and there's a change from what it used to be. The same is happening to every club up and down this country but United are a prime example. For a variety of reasons the emotional connection between the club and the people from the community who supported it has been almost entirely severed. I think a big part of it is there's not so much for locals to identify with - 11 vastly overpaid footballers mostly from miles away are difficult to relate to. Your lot don't have that problem with a mostly Austrian squad.

    We're at the point where we now have a stadium where you can hear a pin drop. OT used to be an absolute cauldron - my late dad used to talk about waves of noise rippling around the ground. It was more tribal on and off the pitch. Local people are now priced out of going. Now players hug and joke in the tunnel beforehand and the same after. Most of the old animosity has gone and with it has gone a lot of the passion and intensity. It just doesn't mean as much.

    When I stood on the Stretford End I was surrounded by local lads like me, teenagers and twenty somethings, all shouting the team on and singing our hearts out like our lives depended on it. It was our team and it represented us. Going to the game was an integral part of growing up, a rite of passage and your only chance of seeing them play in pre internet days when all you had was a weekly highlights tv show and the odd live cup game.

    Why would you shell out for ticket prices now when you can sit at home and watch it for nothing? Especially when the match going "experience" is as boring as it's now become? If I was a 16yo now I reckon I'd be in two minds about it - back then it was the most important thing in the world to me.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  25. Feb 8, 2018

    IndyDC New Member

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    If you read carefully, I'm in W205, which is not second tier and is an Exec area. Everyone is sat down, and the few that try to stand up are told to sit down. I see it with my own eyes every other week. Last time I was in top tier of Stretty, yes most were standing. Didn't help the atmosphere much though.
  26. Feb 8, 2018

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    Rules on flags have been relaxed in recent times so there is a pretty good variety in J Stand nowadays.
    A lot of our fans are against things like megaphones - they think its all too contrived

    [​IMG]

    I dont personally think cheaper prices will make much of a difference, there are already big discounts for anyone under21 - but I certainly wouldnt complain about a price cut either!


    Most of those things are not United specific issues - you will find similar complaints at grounds across the country

    There are also factors that are very specific to English football - some (all seater stadia, no alcohol etc) is due to the historic legacy of Hillsborough and hooliganism.
  27. Feb 9, 2018

    eat_grass Full Member

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    Why would the executives do anything about it? As a business, the problem doesn't even exist. Ticket prices are higher and fans are still selling the place out; the club following around the world is at record highs, and revenue is streaming in. I doubt the club execs care that day-trippers are filling the stands instead of loud and vocal supporters. The meeting is more intended to appease Mourinho and the Supporters' Trust. And since the engineering solution is not realistic, nothing can/will be done about it.
  28. Feb 9, 2018

    RedCurry Full Member

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    Just give the fans good, free beer.
  29. Feb 14, 2018 at 17:14

    United_We_Stand Full Member

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    MUST has sent an open letter to Richard Arnold

    "Dear Richard,


    We welcomed the opportunity to meet with you and colleagues recently to have an initial overview discussion of issues affecting match going fans and we look forward to following up with dedicated meetings with appropriate staff on key issues we explored.


    While we understand that the issue of stadium expansion at Old Trafford remains under active consideration, and that a firm decision has not yet been made on whether the investment will be made into a significant capacity increase, we recognise the major financial, technological and logistical challenges this presents. For that reason, in this letter, we intend to concentrate primarily on interim measures which could be taken to improve atmosphere and develop the stadium in the absence of expansion. We are convinced, however, that expansion is essential to fully address the key issues that M.U.S.T has raised with the Club over many years, so we will be returning to that in forthcoming discussions.


    ATMOSPHERE


    As you know the atmosphere in the stadium is a key issue for supporters and also for the manager and the team. While other factors affecting fans’ perception of their relationship with the Club and players are of key importance, undoubtedly stadium reconfiguration could open up opportunities to address many of the underlying physical and operational issues which affect atmosphere.


    Both of our hardcore vocal ends have been impacted over a number of years by the Family Stand and executive facilities expanding across the Stretford End and the current expansion of the disabled section across East Lower. The original Singing Section introduced into the Stretford End at the turn of the millennium was put in the upper tier, which limited its impact on atmosphere, despite subsequent improvements to acoustics and opening up of the quadrants. Siting the new Singing Section in J-Stand was also a compromise location.


    These diluting influences have been compounded by the progressive loss of younger adult fans who cannot afford the higher ticket prices. There is currently no capacity for Season Ticket Holders to voluntarily relocate, making any major changes in seating locations and arrangements within the current constraints difficult. In particular, new younger supporters have not been able to move into the Lower Stretford End in any numbers to regenerate its famous vocal support of the past.


    Having said that, we do believe there are some solutions which could deliver progress in the short to medium term, some of which emerged during discussion in our initial overview meeting. We have already received several hundred responses to our recent supporter feedback request with many respondents making these suggestions. More have added their voice in response to weekend media coverage.


    RECLAIM THE STRETFORD END


    The biggest single change which would impact on atmosphere would be to reclaim the Stretford End as a traditional “popular end” with cheap tickets, a youthful age profile of highly vocal fans. To achieve this, and so doing re-unify the Stretford End, would require relocation of the Executive International Suite and at least part of the Family Stand to a more suitable area of the stadium.


    One of the key guiding principles in our considerations is that supporters should not suffer compulsory relocation. Therefore, in addition to natural churn, perhaps incentives could be offered to voluntarily accelerate the process.


    We would also call for protected ticket prices to replace the eroded number of minimum price (£28) tickets resulting from expansion of Disabled Facilities into East Stand since the mid-2000’s. We recommend reinstating the number of such affordable seats to at least the same proportion of stadium capacity as they comprised prior to those developments , and locating these, at least initially, in the Stretford End.


    Younger supporters should be given priority on any new migration into a rejuvenated Stretford End. We appreciate the importance of fair and consistent pricing policies across different sections of the stadium so we recognise that this has to be done with careful consideration of unintended consequences and we would welcome the opportunity to explore how this could best be delivered.


    RECLAIM THE SCOREBOARD - EAST LOWER


    Recreating two popular ends would power the atmosphere throughout the whole stadium. Therefore we believe that as soon as it is possible to offer disabled supporters superior accommodation, custom designed to meet their requirements (perhaps as part of stadium expansion), then the East Lower section should revert to cheap seats (and standing when this is allowed) for vocal fans to mirror the Stretford End.


    We recognise that the Club recently came under considerable legal pressure to quickly deliver expanded disabled facilities but we also support the argument made by affected fans that if compulsory relocations were the only option then they shouldn’t end up paying a higher price for their new seats. We should therefore also give priority to those displaced from £28 seats on any additional equivalent cheaper seats that are made available.


    FRIENDS REUNITED


    New capacity, reconfiguration and aggregating groups of seats when they become available should allow for friends to be relocated together in groups rather than the current reality of seats tending to be in groups of two or four only. This is regarded as a key issue as to why atmosphere at Old Trafford has dropped off, whereas at away games larger groups tend to gather (stand) together. It’s been argued that atmosphere develops better naturally with groups of a dozen or more together - a critical mass perhaps. Sections of unreserved seating might have a similar impact.


    SAFE STANDING


    We welcome your public support for Safe Standing and hope to see Manchester United leading the way in progressing towards its implementation. The inclusion of safe standing capacity, in key areas including the Stretford End, is wanted by many supporters and would be an important enabler for co-locating larger groups of friends and for cheaper ticket prices.


    Having recently become aware that at least one other Premier League club has already submitted a formal application to the authorities for the go-ahead to install rail seats, we believe that Manchester United should show similar leadership by also making an application for consent to install a limited number of rail seats on a trial basis. The short-term benefit of such a trial would be to enhance the safety of supporters, particularly in sections of the ground where fans tend to be more physically enthusiastic during goal celebrations and other moments of excitement. It would also be a clear signal to supporters, and hence extremely popular, that the Club are serious about rail seats. Looking longer term, it would represent a major step forward in advancing the case for larger areas of safe standing, which would not only enhance spectator safety but also undoubtedly help to generate the improved atmosphere being called for by the manager.


    YOUTH


    A vibrant sustained youth support is essential to protect the Club’s long term support and improve atmosphere. Actions are needed to attract and retain the next generation of young fans. While recent reductions in season ticket prices for young adults were welcome, many are still priced out of attending on a regular basis, especially during the crucial transition period to full adult prices, leading to an ongoing rise in the average age of season ticket holders. An extension of the age range for youth ticket concession prices would be beneficial in this respect and also the possibility of progressively increasing the minimum percentage of such youth tickets in key sections of the stadium such as the Stretford End to deliver the rejuvenation we described above.


    TICKET CROSS-SUBSIDY


    We think that regular supporters who provide the most loyal support should bear less of the burden of stadium revenue, and that there may be opportunities to review what different categories of ticket holder, including non-members, may be charged. Increased capacity would of course create the opportunity to expand and improve executive facilities. that could fund further measures to keep ticket prices down for the majority and to attract younger supporters around the ground or in designated sections, including a new, larger and much improved family stand.


    SUPPORTER FACILITIES


    Facilities in the stadium have not kept pace with our competitors. We are sure that you will want to address opportunities for expanded and improved concourses where such development is feasible, as well as innovative solutions to expedite stadium access in the new era of higher security. Faster bar service and cheaper drinks are also common request from supporters. Again these could be addressed much more radically with expansion.


    CONCLUSION


    We acknowledge the positivity of our initial discussions with you and ask that the Club continues to work in partnership with supporters in developing plans to the mutual benefit of the Club and supporters. We are keen to push ahead as quickly as possible on discussion of interim measures which will produce progress while we await the major stadium development that is so badly needed.


    We don’t pretend to be experts in stadium design but we do believe we can act as an effective channel to offer invaluable insight from supporters on a matter of huge interest to them. We envisage a dialogue where we (supporters) review proposals and offer comments, and perhaps new ideas, working with you to explore what is possible so as to produce the optimum mutually beneficial outcome for Club and supporters. Perhaps of equal importance is the understanding that, for the first time, supporters will have had meaningful input into major redevelopment decisions which will affect them.


    In conclusion, this opportunity for effective consultation, prior to decision making, has sadly been missed over the many decades of stadium development including, more recently, with the compulsory relocation of J Stand and Scoreboard season ticket holders. We accept that tough decisions are sometimes necessary but let’s work together to avoid repeating missed opportunities for meaningful consultation.


    M.U.S.T - the Manchester United Supporters Trust
    www.joinmust.org
    @MU_ST"


    http://www.skysports.com/football/n...orters-trust-send-club-letter-over-atmosphere
    http://www.espn.co.uk/football/manc...t-old-trafford-atmosphere?device=featurephone
  30. Feb 14, 2018 at 17:22

    L1nk Full Member

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    The reclamation of the Stretford End would go a long long way to bringing some electric atmosphere to the stadium, I can think of no other team that does this better than Dortmund and their 'Yellow Wall'

    Here's a small article on it
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-000-fans-create-deafening-noise-150-000.html

    I mean you can feel the atmosphere through the pictures really, I don't think we necessarilly need a load of flags, banners and flares going around the stand but to have the main chorus of fans in the one end would be the best solution to this problem, in my opinion, oh and of course, not forgetting this picture.

    [​IMG]

    We really should be following the example of how Dortmund set this end up and hopefully the executives listen to what the fans have to say.
  31. Feb 14, 2018 at 18:18

    Rajma Full Member

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    And as MUST rightly mentions it is crucial to have similar upbeat section on the opposite end to Stretty, which would mirror it. That’s the key imo to get the whole stadium going.
  32. Feb 14, 2018 at 18:47

    RedorDead21 Full Member

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    Have other clubs like United with the capacity at OT done it.....is Celtic the best example of big stadium great support? Thats a genuine question? I agree in part with Barca84 It's hard with what is essentially a tourist attraction for many.....which is largely a by product of our success so hard to hunt with the hound and run with the hare.....
  33. Feb 14, 2018 at 21:55

    MancunianAngels Full Member

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    All nice ideas and similar things have been discussed on many occasions post 94.

    Only thing the club understand is £££$$$€€€. The ground is still full every week. Their idea of a good atmosphere is people singing Glory Glory Man United.

    When the tannoy told K Stand to sit down in the autumn of 94, the whole ground rose as one. That fight has gone.
  34. Feb 14, 2018 at 21:56

    MancunianAngels Full Member

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    I like Celtic but aside from the Green Brigade, their support is no different for 90% of matches.
  35. Feb 14, 2018 at 23:57

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    This view is too cynical - the club have actually made efforts to try and improve the atmosphere in recent years (singing section, murals, relaxing rules on flags etc), its not all worked out so far but its a step in the right direction

    The club and MUST didnt even have any dialogue at all about matchgoing issues 10 years ago so things have improved
  36. Feb 15, 2018 at 00:10

    T A New Member

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    Stop being Josie, Jose