United Preview

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Domzi, Aug 14, 2009.

  1. Aug 14, 2009
    #1

    Domzi Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,166
    This is something I wrote whilst down in the Newbies and I'd be interested in what kind of reception it gets here. Any contrary opinions or beliefs I'd be happy to debate.

    -----------------------------------

    Tactical Change
    For the past 2 seasons United, under the guidance of Sir Alex and his staff have played a variant of a fluid, attacking 4-2-3-1 formation or a slightly more reserved 4-3-3 variant. These formations saw the fluid interchange of Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo at the head of the formation, with all 3 players being multi-functional attackers. However, with the loss of 2 of these fluid attacking players, the shift to a more conventional 4-4-2 would seem a more sensible option, not only based upon the loss of two of the players but also due to summer signings. Whilst it is possible to imagine Valencia possibly fitting into the previous tactical arrangement, one cannot imagine Owen or even at this moment in time, Macheda, fitting into this set up. What will this change to a more traditional set up entail I hear you cry? Well lets take a closer look. There is a brilliant article written by Jonathan Wilson of the Guardian on exactly this and I'll do my best to summarize its main points. Wilson argues that a more conventional 4-4-2 formation struggles against the now popular 4-3-3, which can be seen on the continent regularly on our escapades into Europe and has also been adopted by a number of Premier League clubs. Firstly, and perhaps most obviously, is the lack of equality in the midfield battle when a 4-4-2 goes up against a 4-3-3. The outnumbering of midfield means that possession becomes quickly surrendered. However, as Wilson correctly notes, the way in which Park was played during the Community Shield on Sunday suggests that his role is to counter this. He played a more narrow role on Sunday which meant that our midfield of Carrick and Fletcher were not entirely overwhelmed. How effective this proved to be is debatable, but it is also obvious to point out that a midfield that contains the likes of Lampard and Essien is always going to be a struggle to overcome.

    The other problem Wilson notes is that in modern football there has been a greater degree of acceptability in wingers having a greater amount of defensive duties. Therefore, in a conventional 4-3-3 the pushed up wingers would track back to cover for the fullbacks, as demonstrated brilliantly by Rooney against Aly Cissokho of Porto in the quarter finals of the CL this season. Rooney continually stifled Cissokho's marauding runs down the flank whilst still adding to the attacking threat. Wilson's logic applied to our new tactical set up this season would mean that we would be more subject to a greater pressure on the flanks if were to come up against a conventional 4-3-3, as is bound to happen in Europe. The reason is that due to the greater number of midfield players in a 4-3-3 that necessitates playing a "narrow wide player" such as Park to counter the midfield, we leave ourselves more exposed on the flank to runs from the opposing full-backs as they are provided with more space from which to run at.

    The new 4-4-2 system would be comfortably used against sides where we were confident of the lions share of possession. However, against the continental sides and better teams in the league it will be extremely tough to maintain possession for extended periods of time. Therefore, in the upcoming season it will be extremely interesting to watch how Sir Alex and United cope with the new system and whether or not it succeeds against the now popular 4-3-3.

    Summer Transfers
    There has obviously been major changes afoot in the team and with the loss of the European and World Footballer of the Year and Tevez we were always going to be hard placed to find adequate replacements for both. To describe our activity in the market this summer as underwhelming would not be entirely unjustified. However, there are a number of reasons as to why we should look forward to the season. Our major signing of the summer so far is Antonio Valencia. A pacy, direct and old-fashioned winger. He'll look to beat his man and whip a cross into the box for the strikers to get a head or foot onto. His signing perhaps was also an indication of our tactical change. With the introduction of Valencia it seems sensible to have 2 strikers permanently up front, to take advantage of his crossing ability. This is inevitably what occurs with a 4-4-2 formation. However, Valencia is not entirely limited to playing on the wing and has also been deployed as a more central attacking midfielder by Ecuador. The signing of Valencia is, I believe, an extremely exciting prospect as it has been quite a while since we've had an out and out winger in his mold. He has been likened to Kanchelskis and in many ways I agree with the comparison and look forward to seeing him in a United shirt.

    There has also been a number of other signings over the summer which I will address. The first one I'll take a look at is Michael Owen. The signing of Owen was met with a mixture of puzzlement by the media and derision from opposing fans. Understandably our own fans were and still are skeptical as to the impact a 29 year old with a history of severe injuries could have at the club. There are signs, however, that this could be just another stroke of genius pulled off by Sir Alex. Lets brake the Owen transfer down to its bare essentials. For absolutely nothing we're getting a striker with a prolific track record who is completely different to both our current main strikers. Neither are we paying him astronomical wages, with my understanding that in Owens' contract there are a number of performance based bonuses and that he'll only receive a relatively paltry sum of £30,000 a week. Owen is an entirely different species of a striker to Berbatov and Rooney. He'll always look to play off the shoulder of the last defender and work the channels, instead of dropping deep like our strikers regularly do. He consistently makes intelligent runs and has a great instinct inside the box and is also regarded as a great finisher. Another of the main benefits in signing Owen is that he is prepared to spend time sitting on the bench. If we had gone the way that most fans had wanted to and made a marquee striker signing then its entirely unlikely that they'll have been prepared to spend time sitting on the bench. Rooney is considered undroppable by Ferguson, justifiably, and with the emerging talents of Welbeck and Macheda it seems that Owens happiness to spend time on the bench and the invaluable experience he can give to what I believe are two of the brightest talents in England, if not the world, are also two of the major benefits of our capture of Owen. Given the right amount of time I believe that Owen can shine at United and while not being a fan favourite I'm sure he can win over the largely skeptical fan base.

    Another signing of the summer is a young French winger, Gabriel Obertan. Obertan is considered a hugely talented prospect and whilst not shining in Ligue 1 he has still had a number of extremely impressive performances on the international stage for France. I consider Obertan one for the future, with the raw ability to be crafted into an extremely effective attacking player. He's tall and rangy, whilst at the same time being fast and well balanced. He looks to have a number of tricks in his locker and also looks to be a competent dribbler and crosser of the ball. For the moment I don't believe we should expect great things from Obertan just yet. I am, however excited by the potential ability of the lad.

    The latest signing of the summer has been Mame Biram Diouf, from Norwegian club Molde FK. From having watched a number of videos of him and also from what a number of Norwegian based fans have said in the main forum I have gathered the impression that he is a tall, powerful striker with a good heading ability and hold up play. He looks raw at the moment, but under the tutelage of Solskjær and the rest of the back room staff it is entirely possible that we may have got ourselves a bargain.

    However, I am worried in one respect. I believe that at the moment our midfield is not entirely on par with the rest of the upper echelons of the football world. Fletcher has come on leaps and bounds and is at this moment in time in the form of his life. Carrick on his day is a beautiful user of the ball and these two form what I consider our first choice midfield partnership. However, any long term injures to either of these two would leave us in an extremely worrying position.

    Anderson at the moment is not consistent enough to warrant a first team place and although I'm confident the lad can come good there seems to be a worrying lack of depth to our midfield. Gibson is a reliable understudy to Fletcher and Carrick but is no where near good enough, as of yet, to maintain a regular place against top opposition. Owen Hargreaves is also a major problem within the midfield. It seems that at the moment no one is entirely sure as to when and if ever he can make a full recovery to the first team. What also has to be taken in to account is the fact that if he were to make a recovery, how much of a toll would the injuries have had on him? As mentioned previously, Anderson is no where near consistent enough and worryingly we have had to rely on a brilliant, rejuvenated Ryan Giggs and a increasingly tired Scholes. That we should have to rely on a 35 year old and a 34 year old so regularly is a worry and I would be entirely happy to see us spend some of the transfer money that we got for Ronaldo on reinforcing the midfield berth.
  2. Aug 14, 2009
    #2

    Domzi Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,166
    Coming of age
    This season, I believe, is one where we'll see Anderson and Nani either rise to the challenge or falter. Both players last season were inconsistent and to a large degree were no where near first team material. There has been, however, encouraging signs from both players that they have what it takes to make it here at United. Anderson has, whilst not exactly shone in pre-season, still looked ready for the upcoming challenge. He also managed to bag his first goal for United which is always good for the confidence of the lad. Nani, however, has really shone in pre-season for me. He's looked lively and determined, bagging himself a number of goals. He also had an impressive performance against Chelsea and I really hope the season goes well for the lad.

    With regards to other young talent at the club, we are fortunate to have a number of exceptionally gifted young players at the club. The emergence of Macheda last season was a surprise to most and it is exciting to think just how good this lad can get. He's already really well developed physically and looks like a great center forward already. Ferguson has already stated that he intends Macheda to be the fourth striker within the squad and I think his confidence in the lad is entirely justifiable. We cannot forget either that the lad is only 17 and has a really bright future ahead of him.

    We also have young Danny Welbeck waiting in the wings. He marked his premier league debut for the club with a spectacular goal against Stoke and I believe its only a taster of whats to come from Danny. He looks to be a really exciting young prospect and under Sir Alex and the rest of the staff at United I think we'll see him fulfill his undoubted potential.

    We also have the Serbian duo of Tošić and Ljajić to look forward to. Tošić has looked a good young winger and although he may not have the same levels of expectation surrounding him when compared to our other young talent, I still believe he's got the potential to be a very good winger. Ljajić, however is the one I most look forward to catching a glimpse of this season. In him I believe we have a truly outstanding young talent. I've watched him a number of times and he's really stood out for me. He's been dubbed 'Little Kaka' and that tag really is suitable. Like Kaka, he glides across the floor when he runs with the ball and seems to be perfectly poised all the time. He looks comfortable playing as a more central attacking midfielder and also as a more wide player. He has a great eye for the pass and is also deadly from free-kicks and corners. I really look forward to seeing him this season and cannot wait for him to arrive in December.

    We then, of course, have the Da Silva's. I'll be brief with these two as I don't think there's a need for me to say much. These two are going to be bloody good in the future and I cannot wait to see them both running down the wing for us.

    Jonny Evans should also not be forgotten. I doubt any club in the world can boast such a talent back up to their defense. Jonny is already a great defender and will only get better as time goes on.

    I'm not going to cover all of youth talent. The likes of Matty James, Cathcart and Petrucci are also looking very promising and it really is a credit to the club that we have such a wide range of outstanding young talent.

    Conclusion
    So, what can we take from all this? Will we struggle to cope with the loss of Ronaldo or Tevez? Or will a mixture of experience and youth manage to take up the slack? Personally, I am incredibly optimistic about the season. I honestly believe that going into this season we're going to be really underestimated by our opponents and I think we're going to cause a lot of shock when once again Sir Alex Ferguson proves to the media that he was right when he told them, 'youse are all idiots'.
  3. Aug 14, 2009
    #3

    Name Changed weso26

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    23,920
    Location:
    Dublin
    Well written post. I'm too tired to respond to it all, I'm practically falling asleep. Suffice to say that from reading that, I am a little more confident going into the opening weekend of the season.
  4. Aug 14, 2009
    #4

    Count Duckula Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    15,990
    Location:
    Tali'Zorah vas Normandy.
    Great post; I agree with almost all of it. I do think, however, that too much pressure is being put on Macheda. That lad's only seventeen, and I don't care how good you are, that's still too young in my book. He's not even an adult!

    By the way, that post could well be worthy of going on the blog.
  5. Aug 14, 2009
    #5

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Messages:
    36,995
    Location:
    Pulpit of Pearls
    Brilliant post Domzi.

    A very welcome addition to the main forums.
  6. Aug 14, 2009
    #6

    Domzi Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,166
    With regards to Macheda, I believe in the adage of: "If you're good enough, you're old enough". SAF's man management skills are unquestionable in my opinion and I'm confident that he'll know when Macheda is ready and if he has the right mentality to play at the top level for us at his age.
  7. Aug 14, 2009
    #7

    Count Duckula Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    15,990
    Location:
    Tali'Zorah vas Normandy.
    But that adage only represents their talent here and now, it doesn't account for potential burnout down the line. Arguably, that exact thing happened to Giggs; he was explosive when he appeared on the scene, but his mid-to-late twenties were marred by repeated injuries and severe inconsistensy. It's only when he reached his thirties that he started getting back to his best.

    I think a major reason for that is that he was brought into the fold too early. And so whilst it might be said it wasn't "too early" from the perspective of his skill (he slotted straight in and was brilliant, after all), it was "too early" from the perspective of his future.
  8. Aug 14, 2009
    #8

    Raven Blade Dull

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    33,154
    Location:
    Red man down in London town
    Edit: Great post. I agree with most of the points you have highlighted there. This season should hopefully turn out to be a positive evolution for us. Not only are we adapting to the loss of a key player but more responsibility will be given to our younger players. Their talent is obvious and Sir Alex seems happy enough to give them the opportunity to grow into their roles at this club.
  9. Aug 14, 2009
    #9

    samabachan Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    9,896
    Location:
    Football is about glory, it is about doing things
    Too many words noob. :nono:

    Just write about David Silva for a couple of lines, maybe a poem about Steven Gerrard's haircut and then end with a perfunctory hope this helps/discuss and you'll fit in in no time. Alternatively you could add a humorous 3 line summary at the end of your post so that I can read that and jump straight into insulting John O'shea...
  10. Aug 14, 2009
    #10

    RedThaiDevils#7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,825
    Location:
    Married with Manchester United, In love with Giggs
    Are you sure you're not SAF in disguise ?
  11. Aug 14, 2009
    #11

    Christofaux Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,152
    Location:
    Le Australie
    You're so right. David Silva is such a great player that im sure if SAF splashed the cash for him he would score at at least a 2 goals : 1 game ration. He has already proved to be awesome so there's no need for proof he would survive in England. Please SAF wake up to yourself and sign Silva!

    As for Gerrard's hair its great
    Of this there is no debate
    When the fans sing his name
    they rob his house cos its their game

    Perhaps he's the best player around
    at least the best in England found
    He is the one we want to see
    Oh how we love Stevie Me.

    I can't wait to post heaps at the caf
    im out of the newbies, that awful raf
    it looks as if the time has come
    for a summary to prove im number one.

    So to summarise i guess david silva could come to United but i think SAF should go for Gerrard instead. I mean, its not like Silva would rile up the scousers quite like Gerrard, im sure Gerrard would love a chance to play against the team he hated for all those years when supporting everton. roflmao.
  12. Aug 14, 2009
    #12

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    42,144
    If you're going to be lazy and re-post your thread I'm going to be lazy and re-post my reply!

    We did something very similar in 07/08 and for parts of 06/07, with Ronaldo on the opposing wing, when we played Giggs on the wing but he was never actually on the wing and didn't do much winger-like stuff and Evra pretty much did all of it. What confused me was why Park was played on the right tucked in, when O'Shea was playing behind him and we relied on him more than usual to get forward and he was typically useless barring one very nice piece of play and exchange with Park. Might've had something to do with not putting Nani up against Ashley Cole, because as Valencia quickly found out he's a fecking excellent defender one on one.

    But yeah, I've noticed we've done it a lot. I'm not sure which formation describes that best, but 4-2-3-1 seems to just about fit with all of the roles in the team.

    Nah, I think it's far too early to applying any sort of logic to our tactical set-up just yet. It's a one off game, and didn't include our £17m signing in it, so I think it's a bit early. Vidic coming in might have an effect on who our centre mid partnership was as well, as it makes us less liable to aerial threats all round which might come into the equation - we did play two six-footers in the middle and while they might just be the first choice partnership there could be more to it.

    Too early to tell.

    I think we'll always change our formation in Europe, and it's not all that relevant to our formation in the league. We'll always prioritise possession in Europe more so than usual and that has a big effect on everything - our wingers especially, our strikeforce, our right back and obvoiusly our centre mids. The only thing I don't think is likely to be changed is the back three and the keeper.

    I cut out the bit about the signings because it's something that we've all went over too many times for my liking, and it's too unpredictable for me to want to say whether they are or aren't the right signings. I do think you summed them up excellently though.

    I'd echo your sentiments about the midfielders too, I'm not overly worried about it and I think we'll cope, but I'm skeptical as to whether it'll have enough about it long-term. There's a good balance of ages in there, whether there's a good balance of styles is questionable. Maybe it's just representative of the way the game's going with centre mid partnerships being used predominantly for their defensive qualities and their ability to keep the game flowing than any real added attacking input. Obviously it's a bit different in a midfield three with players like Iniesta and Lampard relied on for their attacking input a lot more.

    I find myself less excited about Kiko Macheda, probably a lot less excited than I should be, but I can't wait to see more of Welbeck.

    I think they'll both be valuable assets to the first team right now which is very impressive in itself given their age, and you have to love just watching young players grow as the team just gets better and better.

    I think Welbeck's versatility gives him a bit of an edge because playing on the wing takes away a lot of the pressure and it's been a tried and trusted method by Sir Alex - Fletcher, Gibson etc. - and while obviously they are both centre mids it has a similar level of pressure for entirely different reasons - strikers are there to score goals and being under pressure to score goals at such a young age in such a naturally high pressure environment can be very difficult to cope with, while playing in the midfield you have to make sure to keep the game flowing, almost always pick the right pass or make the right decision, and so making a mistake in midfield is always very costly which leads to even more pressure once again - whereas wingers can disappear in and out of games to some extent without having a particularly big negative effect on the team. The fact Macheda doesn't have that opportunity to play there may limit his playing opportunites, or it may just lead to him being given high pressure opportunites more often, so let's hope he's up to the task of coping with that. So far he's shown he can, actually he's shown he relishes it.

    About the season as a whole, I'm more excited than anything. I'm excited to see if Nani, Anderson, Welbeck, Macheda and the twins can make the required step up; if Michael Owen really still has it in him to be good enough; whether we can win it again after such a big change and so much criticism from all corners(except, for once surprisingly, our own fans seemingly); and if Valencia was actually a lot better than I previously thought. I really haven't a clue about any of them and that just makes me excited.

    My general conclusion, though, is that was a quite excellent post which looked at things in a more detailed and interesting way and was very different to anything else I'd ever read in here. I always like people quoting Jonathan Wilson, and you showed a tactical awareness very few in here(even in the mains) have shown before and if you didn't get repped for that it's either because the mods are too lazy to read it - which, to be honest, I quite nearly did myself - or they're looking for the wrong things in posters.
  13. Aug 14, 2009
    #13

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    41,934
    Location:
    Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
    Brilliant posts Domzi and Brnwed.
  14. Aug 14, 2009
    #14

    dmode Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,791
    Location:
    vega
    Great read... it's always been like that with us... someone somewhere will have to compensate the loss of Ronaldo... tbh Tevez will not be missed that much...

    I think Berbs along with a mixture of youths will do the trick for us this season... i really enjoy see him play... and yeah you're spot on when you say that many teams will underestimate our play... i'll be the happiest man on earth if we get our fourth consecutive premierleague...
  15. Aug 14, 2009
    #15

    RedThaiDevils#7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,825
    Location:
    Married with Manchester United, In love with Giggs
    Oh wait, so is Welbeck considered and Winger or Striker ? I'm pretty sure his best position is Striker,Or am I wrong ?
  16. Aug 14, 2009
    #16

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Messages:
    36,995
    Location:
    Pulpit of Pearls
    Welbecks very versatile, and his ability to run with the ball gives the manager options to play him in various positions. He was played on the wings on a number of occasions for the United first team with great effect.

    However, like you say he has played most of his games at youth and reserve level as a forward.
  17. Aug 14, 2009
    #17

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    41,934
    Location:
    Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
    TBF he is very competent in either position. Even though he is natural forward.
  18. Aug 14, 2009
    #18

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    33,123
    Location:
    Bangerang
    so 4-3-3 is narrower than 4-4-2 - I agree

    Our new signings will be good - I agree

    Our midfield is our weakest link - I agree

    Our kids are good - I agree

    I don't think Tosic will make the grade though...but generally, I agree
  19. Aug 14, 2009
    #19

    RedThaiDevils#7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,825
    Location:
    Married with Manchester United, In love with Giggs
    Is this gonna be Rooney playing LW mark II ? I doubt his best position is CF but like Fletcher he started his career as a winger to get more experience, so the same with Welbeck and in the end he'll end up at CF. Does that sound correct ?
  20. Aug 14, 2009
    #20

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    41,934
    Location:
    Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
    Not really. Rooney has never truly been comfortable out wide. This boy in comparison is. In that respect he is similar to Ronaldo. Who was a striker as a youth then became this accomplished winger, with striker instincts. Welbeck is a natural striker and goal scorer and is excellent upfront. But he has all the tools to develop into a top and natural winger, if that proves the way he will get most games in the first 11 at his current age.
  21. Aug 14, 2009
    #21

    RedThaiDevils#7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,825
    Location:
    Married with Manchester United, In love with Giggs
    So Chief, you're saying he has the tools to be a top class winger. What current tools does he have now ?
    We know he's good but all I see right now is that he has a good eye for goal, has some pace and still has the potential to become better, BUT as a CF. He hasn't shown the crossing or dribbling skills of a winger yet.
    I'm just saying this cause Welbeck has only impressed me playing CF in the reserves.
  22. Aug 14, 2009
    #22

    Dominant Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    4,645
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I could be wrong, but I seriously wonder if the hype about macheda is justified. Sure, those 2 goals were simply brilliant, and save our ass. Especially, the goal against villa, simply wonderful. But after those 2 goals, I couldn't seems to recall macheda putting in a good performance after that. He loses possession easily, seems a tad clumsy and is not exactly blessed with pace, even though u expect a 17 yr old to be able to run faster. He's still young though, and might very well turned out to be the next alan shearer, but at the moment, he's overhyped by SAF and over-rated by fans.

    Welbeck is the one we should be wanking over. Everytime he gets some match time, you could see that he's simply comfortable playing with the 1st team. Few awkward passes, kept possession well and played with a certain degree of maturity. I don't understand y SAF gives the 4th striker position to macheda and not welbeck. In my opinion, welbeck is more equipped to get this role. Maybe we might see a great improvement in macheda, who knows? fingers crossed.
  23. Aug 14, 2009
    #23

    RedThaiDevils#7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,825
    Location:
    Married with Manchester United, In love with Giggs
    I'm not disagreeing with you but after those 2 goals he has like 2 substitute matches and 2 full games which weren't played with our 1st regular side. So by judging him on that basis is a bit wrong in my point of view. Yes he could be overhyped and stuff but who was the last 17yr old who actually made an instant impact when brought into the PL, all I could think of was Rooney as Walcott didn't really start proving his worth til 18.
    Good point about Welbeck not being 4th, but due to many a reason I think Fergie chose Macheda for the Villa game due to betting with Macheda. It all came down to luck and on that day Macheda scored a hattrick so he was called upon. Welbeck is also rated very highly here but hasn't got as many games due to the Ingulund's U'21 so he was left out of preseason. He'll be back and hopefully a better player than last seasonn.
  24. Aug 14, 2009
    #24

    Mr. MUJAC Talent spotter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,547
    Location:
    Louis Rocca started it all...
    I agree with most of the post except that Fergie will not adopt a 442, 451 or a 433 or whatever as a general rule.

    He will play the right formation with the right players depending on the game.

    I can see 442 at home to say Wigan with Nani and Valencia on the wings and two forwards.

    I can see 4411 at home to say Villa or 451 against Liverpool.

    So tactically, we won't have a 'style'. Just a fluid approach with a squad quite capable of adapting to any formation.
  25. Aug 14, 2009
    #25

    Decotron Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    27,840
    Location:
    I am not a man........I am Cantona
    Jaysus lads, Im gona need a coffee for this thread!
  26. Aug 14, 2009
    #26

    Domzi Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,166
    With Welbeck, I've been most impressed with his performances as a CF. His performances on the wing, for me have left a lot to be desired. His goal against Stoke came as a CF up front with Manucho (We hardly knew ye). His peformances on the wings, such as against Everton in the FA Cup Semi Final weren't exactly great, althought he was played out of position on the left wing.

    Macheda and Welbeck are both still very young, so there's a long way to go and a lot of hurdles that they both have to get over before they establish themselves as 2 first team players. However, the talent of both is there to see and when you see both on the pitch you can't shake the feeling that both are going to be top players.
  27. Aug 14, 2009
    #27

    redhoop Full Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    2,232
    Location:
    Er...sorry...near Southampton.
    A very interesting post - positivity is good for the footballing soul. I hope you are right that the great potential we have in the bag is exploitable to the maximum possible. Your points about Owen's relative contentment with being a sub and what he can bring in terms of experience to our younger strikers are well made.
    My worry is that potential is just that. A possibility. While I have enormous faith in the coaching set up, the actual return in terms of permanent first team players from any pool of talent (however promising) is usually pretty small. We always get injuries to key players - as do our rivals - and you just know that the chances are that it's gonna be in mid-field because that's where we can least afford to have one.
    So, whilst I am very happy to share your optimistic summary and will, too, enjoy seeing how SAF juggles the raw/new/developing talent this season - this lack of cover in the middle feels like a very large weight hanging from a very frayed piece of rope, swinging slowly and ominously over our heads.
  28. Aug 14, 2009
    #28

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    41,934
    Location:
    Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
    Vs Everton in the FA Cup semi he proved that he has both vision to make excellent passes, pace to burn and can beat people for fun. Other things like crossing consistently well can be taught to him like Ronaldo was taught them.

    Fair enough. For me I've been impressed with him at all levels thus far. And the first time I ever saw him was in an FA CUP youth game in which he murdred a team as a right winger, in a manner Giggs did in his younger days. With proper training and experience I believe he could do the same at senior level. If SAF ever chose to turn him into a wide man permenantely.
  29. Aug 14, 2009
    #29

    samabachan Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    9,896
    Location:
    Football is about glory, it is about doing things
    Welbeck's dribbling is excellent. :confused:

    I really don't think you've seen enough of him to comment.

    [​IMG]
  30. Aug 14, 2009
    #30

    B Cantona Desperate

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    40,118
    Location:
    Hated, Adored, Never Ignored
    That's an epic Domzi! Give me half an hour to read it and I'll post my thoughts :)
  31. Aug 14, 2009
    #31

    Chris H Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,935
    Actually they were both called upon. Welbeck came on late and nearly scored, Friedel had to come left off his line to make a very good save just as injury time was getting started. "What a story that could have been," bellowed Andy Gray at the time. Little did he know....
  32. Aug 14, 2009
    #32

    Don't Kill Bill Full Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,314
    Regarding Welbeck.

    He looks six foot two now, SAF said he hasn't finished growing yet and could be six four by then.How many six foot four wingers are there?
  33. Aug 14, 2009
    #33

    Don't Kill Bill Full Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,314
    This 442 433 451 stuff.

    My understanding was that to call a formation 433 you had to have three forwards who stayed forward when you lost the ball. The 433 that everyone seems to play now is 451 and not 433 at all.

    We used to play against this 451 formation all the time at Old Trafford.Just drop Rooney onto the central, of the three central midfield players and get on with the game.Then agin my favourite tactical call has always been "take more long shots" so what do I know.
  34. Aug 15, 2009
    #34

    Skelter Internet GYPO

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5,711
    You're like a proud e-dad now aren't you Brad. :)

Share This Page