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Universal Basic Income - For or Against?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by esmufc07, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. Feb 24, 2018
    #1

    esmufc07 Elvis has theft the building Scout

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    Following on from @Pogue Mahone and @Wibble's posts in another thread.

    Who's in favour of this?
  2. Feb 24, 2018
    #2

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva

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    How does it work?
    Somone please explain.
  3. Feb 24, 2018
    #3

    Skills Snitch

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    And how does it work? Everyone who works or doesn't work receive a sum of money every month?

    Won't that just cause massive inflation, if everyone has an extra 5-6k in turn reducing the value of that money?
  4. Feb 24, 2018
    #4

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    Sounds like if you stack shelves in tescos, you'd be earning the same as a firefighter?
  5. Feb 24, 2018
    #5

    Mr Pigeon baldy fatty bum bum

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    I think the most important question on everyone’s lips is; will I personally end up with more money?
  6. Feb 24, 2018
    #6

    Scarecrow Having a week off

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  7. Feb 24, 2018
    #7

    esmufc07 Elvis has theft the building Scout

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    The idea is everyone of working age is given a payment each month. Finland have been trialing it for over a year now, where 2,000 randomly selected citizens have been receiving £475/month. It's tax free, and with no requirement to look or accept work. Scotland are set to trial it in certain towns aswell.
  8. Feb 24, 2018
    #8

    esmufc07 Elvis has theft the building Scout

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    If it was introduced, yes.
  9. Feb 24, 2018
    #9

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    It just wouldn't be worth as much.
  10. Feb 24, 2018
    #10

    esmufc07 Elvis has theft the building Scout

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    There's also the argument that it reduces the bureaucracy of the welfare state. Whilst some additional benefits would have to remain, a lot of the micro-benefits could be scrapped and replaced with a UBI (Tories have obviously tried to reduce bureaucracy with Universal Credit, which has been a disaster). It also gives people more freedom in the work they choose, as they have a guaranteed income. Businesses will be forced to re-think how they pay employees and the conditions in which they work.
  11. Feb 24, 2018
    #11

    Skills Snitch

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    And will that money end up taking me a lot further in helping pay my rent, bills, food, other expenses?

    I'm not convinced.
  12. Feb 24, 2018
    #12

    Javi Full Member

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    How can you be sure? Wages obviously would adapt.
  13. Feb 24, 2018
    #13

    rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks

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    Yes, if done right.

    No if not done right
  14. Feb 24, 2018
    #14

    esmufc07 Elvis has theft the building Scout

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    Finland have been trialing it for a year now (granted only on a small scale).

    [​IMG]
  15. Feb 24, 2018
    #15

    Tarrou Full Member

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    I think people end of working less hours, which would be great
  16. Feb 24, 2018
    #16

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    No, that's communism.

    Universal Basic Income insures that everyone without exception takes home a fixed amount per year, say £10,000 from taxes. From there you can build capitalism on top of it, you're just ensuring that everyone has the same starting point and enough money to survive.

    You're not printing more money to cover this therefore it's not inflation as the value of the pound against other foreign currencies is not devalued.

    From a business perspective, it should encourage liquidity and drive consumerism.
  17. Feb 24, 2018
    #17

    Scarecrow Having a week off

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    It will cause inflation only of you print money to pay for it. I don't think that's the idea. It's supposed to be a substitute / a different form of welfare, for which there already is money. It depends on the country / model of UBI though.
  18. Feb 24, 2018
    #18

    Silva Full Member

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    Ed Milliband said in an interview it could cost around £14bn a year, roughly the cuts made to corporate tax by the tories so undoing those tax cuts would pay for it.
  19. Feb 24, 2018
    #19

    Cassidy Not to be confused with Cassady the Liverpool fan

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    Its going to need to happen in the future when many people will be put out of jobs by the further advances in technology.
  20. Feb 24, 2018
    #20

    Silva Full Member

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    only if done through quantitive easing, if done through higher corporate tax rates there would be no new money in the economy to devalue it
  21. Feb 24, 2018
    #21

    esmufc07 Elvis has theft the building Scout

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    That seems quite a low figure in all honesty.
  22. Feb 24, 2018
    #22

    BIGbadBOO4 Full Member

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    I personally think it' a fantastic idea, research shows that it reduces mental health issues and increases personal well being.
  23. Feb 24, 2018
    #23

    Cassidy Not to be confused with Cassady the Liverpool fan

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    In reality there probably isn't a need for anyone to stack shelves in Tescos, but we have to keep that job so that people can have employment and we don't kill the economy. The person stacking shelves in tescos with UBI could go and do something else which further benefits society for their additional income.

    Basically the idea people should have to "work" for mere survival in this day and age, doesn't make sense.
  24. Feb 24, 2018
    #24

    Varun Moderator Staff

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    Yes, I'd love to do something I enjoy rather than working to make ends meet.
  25. Feb 24, 2018
    #25

    esmufc07 Elvis has theft the building Scout

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    Yes. And/or Tesco makes that job more attractive though higher wages and better working conditions.
  26. Feb 24, 2018
    #26

    Skills Snitch

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    14 bn spread between ~ 60 million comes to about 2k a year
  27. Feb 24, 2018
    #27

    Javi Full Member

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    It's not true for a country like the UK anyway, since no one is going to starve. I take it the idea is more ambitious as in allowing a decent participation in modern society solely by being a human being, not just survival.
  28. Feb 24, 2018
    #28

    Scarecrow Having a week off

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    Isn't it a bit utopian to think that if everybody was free to do what everybody wanted there wouldn't be a deficit of workers in a number of industries that our society needs to function properly? Talking about a world where machines and AI produce all the goods and services we need is an entirely different conversation.
  29. Feb 24, 2018
    #29

    Cassidy Not to be confused with Cassady the Liverpool fan

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    Hold on a minute. You do realise people in the UK today don't have enough money to make ends meet and rely on food banks?
  30. Feb 24, 2018
    #30

    Silva Full Member

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    I don't think minors (and possibly pensioners) would get it.
  31. Feb 24, 2018
    #31

    Tarrou Full Member

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    We already spend a lot on welfare, which presumably has been factored into the calculations
  32. Feb 24, 2018
    #32

    Silva Full Member

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    It's also probable Milliband meant £14bn more than the welfare budget, but he wasn't pressed on specifics so idk where the number comes from.
  33. Feb 24, 2018
    #33

    Javi Full Member

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    I'm not from the UK so am not familiar with the social security there but I thought that at the very least nobody is starving since we are talking about a 1st world country after all.
  34. Feb 24, 2018
    #34

    Cassidy Not to be confused with Cassady the Liverpool fan

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    Yes, referring to my post earlier.

    Its already the case right now today, that many jobs do not actually need to exist. An example is the battle right now for TFL to introduce driverless trains on the tube in London. We are moving to a future where many jobs will be made redundant by technology and its not AI but just simple technology.

    Its not to say people wouldn't still work in Tescos or for TFL, but it will be less, these businesses would also increase their profitability and pay a higher rate of tax because of it.
  35. Feb 24, 2018
    #35

    Javi Full Member

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    Then it's probably just a random number low enough to make people think hold on a sec that wouldn't mean financial ruin for the govt. so why not go for it.
  36. Feb 24, 2018
    #36

    vi1lain caf sexpert

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    I’m definitely in favour of it, think it would encourage the poor especially to do what they love rather than working just to pay bills.
    Over time it’ll decrease stress, hopefully decrease things like the divorce rate, child poverty, kids not going to school hungry etc.

    Make it happen.
  37. Feb 24, 2018
    #37

    Skills Snitch

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    You' be surprised.

    There's food banks and charities all across the major cities now that help people get a daily meal.
  38. Feb 24, 2018
    #38

    Adzzz Astrophysical Genius - Hard for Grinner Staff

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    I don't know how well it will work but it's going to be something of a necessity - I'm not even saying this as a joke - robots are going to take jobs, now whether the wage will be linked to the corporations who end up 'employing' the automated workers I don't know, but it could be. Think of the impact of self-driving vehicles in the next 20, 30 years, then think around that industry - haulage, insurance, mechanics - this is just one area.
  39. Feb 24, 2018
    #39

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

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    Knowing Britain's history, it'll probably be a means-tested £1 per month.
  40. Feb 24, 2018
    #40

    vi1lain caf sexpert

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    That’s a pretty ignorant view tbh.
    Poverty rate is rapidly increasing in the UK and America, and third world countries aren’t only stuck in poverty.