US soccer

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Theafonis, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Oct 11, 2017
    #1

    Theafonis In love with @Eboue

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  2. Oct 11, 2017
    #2

    Theafonis In love with @Eboue

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    Also a solid article from last year that pretty much outlines the problems that hinder US soccer

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

  3. Oct 11, 2017
    #3

    Bubz27 Full Member

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    Qualified twice under Obama.

    Stolen from somewhere.
  4. Oct 11, 2017
    #4

    ::sonny:: Full Member

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    Bring back Klinsmann
  5. Oct 11, 2017
    #5

    MrMarcello Full Member

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    Crikes! Spoiler that long of an article!

    If anyone can find the Stuart Holden rant from last night please do post. It's excellent. I'm not having much luck finding online nor have I seen it this morning but have seen other rants (Lalas, Twellman, etc.). I think Holden's may be put off right now because he attacks the college system and how USSF/MLS works isn't right for player development.
  6. Oct 11, 2017
    #6

    theREDMAN New Member

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    Absolutely gutted after the perfect storm of failure last night. There are tons of issues with the game in America. One of the biggest is the youth system. It's impossible in my region, which is the D.C. Metro area so it is soccer heavy, to find solid leagues outside of the club (pay to play) travel model. For my 2 sons it costs me thousands per year. It is ridiculous. We would have a better talent pool if this could be fixed, but I don't see how it can be changed at this point.
  7. Oct 11, 2017
    #7

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    This sums up the problem in this specific cycle.

    http://americansoccernow.com/articles/the-missing-years-u-s-soccer-s-development-gap

  8. Oct 11, 2017
    #8

    flappyjay Full Member

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    Damn what have Americans done to football. They have somehow made it posh, everywhere in the world most of the football superstars come from low income neighborhoods
  9. Oct 11, 2017
    #9

    MarylandMUFan Full Member

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    Yeah, we have a habit of finding ways to turn anything into a way to make tons of money. We really are in a pickle. The academy system linked to professional teams won't work since we don't have nearly enough teams. We really need USA soccer to almost create their own club system and coach training system that is nation wide and affordable.
  10. Oct 11, 2017
    #10

    arthurka Full Member

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    I can say for sure there is something very much wrong with youth soccer in the states... Here in Iceland we pay 2-400 pounds a year the rest is paid by the state.. If you are poor it's fully paid by the state..

    Iceland just qualified for the wc with a talent Pool 1000x less than the States.. 340.000 and half being female.. Leaves 160.000, 60% of that is either over 40 or under 20. That leaves us 68.000 young guys who could play.

    Or something like this
    [​IMG]

    So the USA should at least find 23.000
  11. Oct 11, 2017
    #11

    AshRK Full Member

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    It is a huge blow for them to not qualify but i don't think they are in some kind of turmoil or anything. Their youth teams look good and they have some quality footballers coming. Furthermore, I am seeing young talents ready to play for US rather than choosing to play for other country. This could easily turn out to be a blessing in disguise for them.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  12. Oct 11, 2017
    #12

    JustFootballFan Thinks Balotelli & Pogba look the same

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    Come on, who are you trying to kid. You are good at Handball and basketball, too. Who really believes there are only 300k of you. Just nobody cares to check and whenever a plane lands every four weeks, you all go into hiding like some tribe in the rain forests. :D
  13. Oct 11, 2017
    #13

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    Yeah that is why I am not entirely worried about this. It seems we just had sort of a lost generation. The guys who are supposed to be in their prime for us are just not good enough now. Which is why the squad was so reliant on 30+ year olds and a teenage kid.
  14. Oct 11, 2017
    #14

    edcunited1878 Full Member

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    You're basically saying that the system Iceland works because no person will fall through the cracks, which is fine and it's the truth. You streamline all the potential candidates, train them and nurture them accordingly together at various levels and they improve together. Proper dedication and commitment.

    The US misses out on talent because of a variety of factors that have been continuously highlighted. Money talks and unfortunately, it's one of the main factors in destroying US Soccer's potential.
  15. Oct 11, 2017
    #15

    AR87 Full Member

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    I'm not worried because if both Klinsmann and Arena weren't tactical morons we would have qualified easily. There are definite systemic issues which need to be addressed though. In some ways this could be a Caf favorite "blessing in disguise" if it gets the federation to clean house and bring in people actually interested in progressing the national team and not just maintaining the status quo.
  16. Oct 11, 2017
    #16

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    Seems we've found a niche in the market lads! Anyone have their coaching badges? We can open an academy over in the US of A and make a small fortune!

    PM if interested. :angel:
  17. Oct 11, 2017
    #17

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    A lot of British dudes had the same exact idea.
  18. Oct 11, 2017
    #18

    MarylandMUFan Full Member

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    Yeah, there are tons of British soccer camps/academy's out here. Just a British accent makes us Yanks think you know what you are doing (ignoring England's own International failures of late).
  19. Oct 11, 2017
    #19

    arthurka Full Member

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    Or that..

    USA are rubbish at football and handball... Maybe they are only 300k +
  20. Oct 11, 2017
    #20

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    Ah feck, that was a short lived dream. :(
  21. Oct 11, 2017
    #21

    arthurka Full Member

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    Money is destroying more than football inn the US..
  22. Oct 11, 2017
    #22

    theREDMAN New Member

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    This is so true. If the travel coach has an accent his credibility goes up instantly. He could've grown up throwing darts and it wouldn't matter.
  23. Oct 11, 2017
    #23

    SambaBoy Full Member

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    Done a fair bit of coaching in the US and there's just not the interest or set-up at grassroots. There's so main issues as to why the don't produce top top players. Firstly of those who actually player 'soccer', less than a handful are interested, they can't develop in such a group where the rest are not bothered and low skilled, they are not challenging themselves, barely improving and they lose interest. Secondly, the coaching is terrible, when we did coaching courses, a junior coach said I want to toughen my players up (they were 10), I asked him what drills he had been doing out of curiosity and no word of a lie, he said I ask them to run towards me and I boot the ball at them.

    Thirdly, there's no real pathway to academies or centre of excellences, there's no clear way to progress or ways to achieve what they want. It's not like here where top junior leagues will be watched by a few scouts and players will be offered trials.
  24. Oct 11, 2017
    #24

    MrMarcello Full Member

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    If only MLS/USSF would model after the FC Dallas academy. They need to make this a mandatory or collective effort to improve not only the MLS product but also the national team product, and somehow work out a way to extend this to NASL and USL clubs (or affiliate these clubs with MLS ala MLB since we'll never seen promotion/relegation here).

    For locations without a pro club the USSF could establish regional/state centers of excellence. Let the kids move into residency and go from there, completely eliminates the pay to play nonsense that targets suburbia and affluent areas while out-casting anyone else. This is where past players like Holden, Ramos and Reyna could benefit the US in the developmental process if given the right tools to succeed; these guys have called for developmental processes to be revised.

    FC Dallas funds their own academy (largely because the Hunts love and understand the sport) but I think most MLS clubs do not want to invest much funding into youth because the US model is business first, all about the bottom line not the spirit of the game. They see established youth clubs and college as a free development system just like the NBA and NFL whom get free development through an evolved youth scheme up through a collegiate system. MLB and NHL has an evolved youth scheme and minor leagues to develop players. MLS has nothing but a disengaged and disorganized youth scheme and relies heavily on a college system that churns out stunted players already ages 21-23 that are years behind their foreign peers in development, and thus past that small window to develop to a higher level. The college players have limits on amount of practices per semester, hours per practice, and a limited game schedule. It simply does not work for a sport that is practically year round and global where peers are training and playing daily. I find that the upper echelons of MLS and USSF do not understand how the game truly works in developing the best players.

    As for MLS desire to grow the league, I've long felt that MLS clubs should look more often to Central/South America, Africa, Asia, and Far East for young talents, bring them to the US on pro/academy contracts - or sign cross-mutual agreements with foreign clubs to share young players (some MLS clubs have gone the loan/share route). Many of those players are probably from impoverished areas and would likely jump at a chance to reside in the US, get an education opportunity, and with some getting a salary immediately if signed to pro contract. And the clubs are likely missing out on finding the next Drogba or Neymar and flogging the player to Europe for millions - enough to sustain the academy costs for years. Though some of the problems with MLS ownership is the single-entity sham and how the league operates player contracts and whatnot. This does hamper club management in many ways.

    The IMG Academy in Florida was a start but has had various problems overall and hasn't achieved the lofty goal. I'm surprised more European clubs haven't set up shop over here to scout the population both here in the US all the way south to Argentina. I'd be up for club partnerships, anything that will help properly develop the talent pool as MLS and USSF seemingly doesn't get it.
  25. Oct 11, 2017
    #25

    JustFootballFan Thinks Balotelli & Pogba look the same

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    Yeah Steve Nicol. :lol:
  26. Oct 11, 2017
    #26

    Achilles McCool New Member

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    Until we replace these courts with street soccer courts, then we will lose most of our inner city athletes:

    [​IMG]
    Most NBA players will tell you about how, at some point in their life, they went to the street courts to challenge themselves and get better/improve. I'll go even further...most NBA players grew up on these types of courts playing street ball.

    Tell me where the average American soccer player goes, week in/week out, to challenge themselves? We don't have the inner city infrastructure (small sided soccer courts, leagues, etc.) that European and Latin American countries have.
    Imagine Steph Curry, Lebron James and Dwayne Wade growing up playing soccer:drool:
  27. Oct 11, 2017
    #27

    Wonder Pigeon 'Shelbourne FC Supporter'

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    Very forward thinking yeah.
  28. Oct 11, 2017
    #28

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    @Achilles McCool Worth pointing out that even the NBA is starting to be dominated by dudes who grew up in the Suburbs. There is a reason almost all of the recent phenoms either grew up middle class or had fathers who played in the NBA. Basketball and Baseball are starting to have some of the same problems Soccer has but, in those sports since we have a much larger player pool than anywhere else it does not really matter.
  29. Oct 11, 2017
    #29

    Achilles McCool New Member

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    good points, but having more access to the game (soccer) for the inner city kids would give the US a larger player pool, no?
  30. Oct 11, 2017
    #30

    Mibabalou Full Member

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    I get the point you're trying to make but these three football fields are 500 feet away from this pic...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/cho...kensinger_brooklyn_bridge_park_DSC_6881.0.jpg

    I should know I play four matches there a week.
  31. Oct 11, 2017
    #31

    JustFootballFan Thinks Balotelli & Pogba look the same

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    I think Klinsmann had the right idea, he´s just not a good X´s and O´s coach. Arena was just a disaster. His comment about the Euro hotshots shows that he clearly does not like the European-Americans and some of the players playing abroad. He wanted the American (MLS) spirit, but it takes far more balls to move to a foreign country with a foreign language at age 18 challening yourself than staying at home, where chances are you´ll always be the superior talent.

    Miazga/Brooks should be the CB pairing. They are just 22 and 24 years old. I´d not wait around now and just throw McKennie/ J. Gonzalez into the deep end in central midfield. If you can play for Schalke and in Mexico you can handle the pressure and the level. There are no meaningful games for the next three years, which means they´ll be 22/21 by the time the WC qualifying comes around. Pulisic is ready to lead. He carried that pathetic bunch of veterans the whole campaign already. Wood is another starter just for his workrate alone.
  32. Oct 11, 2017
    #32

    Ramshock The spacegoats did it

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    I was on the ground floor of US Soccer for 10 years, as in primary and secondary school level. What I found was that like everything else initially in America it was a playground for rich white peoples kids and it was all about the money.

    I struggled every season to get immigrant kids on to my teams and get them to a stage where they could get to a level like the white kids to get college scholarship offers. Im proud to say I got about 50 or more Mexican and Central American kids full scholarships at college to play football but it was much much easier for the privileged kids with money.
  33. Oct 11, 2017
    #33

    MrMarcello Full Member

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  34. Oct 11, 2017
    #34

    Achilles McCool New Member

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    Are there players lined up to play 7 days a week? NY might not be the best example, but other large cities don't have the urban courts in every neighborhood like basketball.
    You gave me 1 example of an inner city soccer court, (looks brand new), but I've been to a lot of inner cities and rarely soccer fenced in soccer courts!
  35. Oct 12, 2017 at 00:14
    #35

    theREDMAN New Member

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    At the end of the day this comparison is a moot point because soccer will never surpass basketball and American football in the inner city communities as a "way out" through athletics any more than basketball will in Brazil, France, Mexico, etc. It's a cultural thing. American mentality towards the game is changing but it has a LONG way to go. Take me for example, I played baseball and basketball into college and while in high school I considered joining the soccer team. When some of my family and friends heard about it I was ridiculed and asked why I was playing "a girls game." Of course, I didn't end up playing and now as an adult soccer is my favorite sport. My point is culturally America is a long way from having a consistent number of our best athletes seriously considering soccer as an option. My kids only play soccer now and of course I'm broke because to play at a decent level here you have to join a travel club. They wouldn't have that problem if they had chosen to stick with baseball, basketball, or football :(.
  36. Oct 12, 2017 at 03:35
    #36

    MrMarcello Full Member

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    FOUND IT! It was Twellman not Holden calling out the age range and college. Does appear the clip is edited at 2:51 to 2:52 with a noticeable skip.

    Around the 2:45 mark he gets to it.

    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 03:41
  37. Oct 12, 2017 at 03:47
    #37

    ManUtd1999 Full Member

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    In 2002 the USA lost to Germany in th quarterfinal (1-0). In the past two WCs, we made it to the R16. There was heart and less fame.

    Yesterday, I saw no heart!
  38. Oct 12, 2017 at 04:35
    #38

    Carolina Red Full Member

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    :lol: Christ, what a coach
    This would be a great thing, in my opinion. Creating a farm system that could feed MLS clubs, giving professional contracts at a lower level, etc. All the good developmental aspects of baseball could be transferred to soccer here. Plus, it could take the place of collegiate soccer for many players, which as Twellman pointed out on ESPN, is a joke.
    I've said the same about college and NFL football players. Imagine some of our top receivers, tight ends, linebackers, and safeties on a soccer pitch having played soccer all their lives.
  39. Oct 12, 2017 at 04:39
    #39

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    A lot of those guys would be way too big.
  40. Oct 12, 2017 at 05:14
    #40

    Carolina Red Full Member

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    The players would not have the same muscle mass/bulk on them because they wouldn't be in a football focused weight program which is aimed at building thickness on the body frame.

    Zlatan is the same height as Zach Ertz. Lukaku the same as Luke Kuechly. Pogba the same as Julio Jones...