Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Theafonis, Oct 11, 2017.
I can see Pogba being a beast WR and Zlatan being a decent TE.
Lukaku +20lbs would be a solid outside linebacker or running back
Either way... a lot of our best athletes end up taking body frames and athletic abilities that could translate to a soccer pitch and add mass to them and train them for football. If we ever start getting those kids training and developing their bodies for soccer instead, I'll be out of a coaching job, but we will be damn good at soccer.
If someone like LeBron grows up in a Paris suburb instead of Akron, Ohio he still ends up playing basketball. Julio Jones maybe the other two I think you are pushing it.
Barry Sanders could have made an incredible CAM
We can start to talk when they have this in Bed-Stuy or East Tremont, DUMBO is fully gentrified
Well, doing it with the ball in your arms is not the same as having the ball at your feet But true, as a runner, his power, movement & rapid change of direction was very unique. OT but are there runners like him anymore in the NFL or college?
Per Mertesacker is taller than Ertz and Kuechly
It seemed as if the game was fixed so the U.S. don't have to travel to Russia.
4D chess soccer
If the colleges developed soccer programs like NCAA basketball and football did they would be set.
The US has the highest pool of elite athletes in the world. They just don't gravitate towards soccer yet.
need to start developing more technical players. A bit like England really, although there seems to be initial success from the St George's football centre with England enjoying some national success with U17, U19 AND U20's. Developing fast, hard running athletes only gets you so far. They need to develop more Pulisics, is he an exception, just a natural talent- hard to say as I don't know much about the youth set in the US. I am a season ticket holder at TFC in the mls, and the americans I see typically are grafters. I'd like to see the yanks do well in football as it increases exposure to the game.
Best way to develop more Pulisics is to have all the best U14-U16 players go to Europe and join a proper academy.
Haha, I like a good conspiracy theory!
isn't the worry there though, if the players are good enough, the country they are being developed in might take them for their national team
In one of the videos above, Shaka Hislop brought up some good comparisons that would lead me to believe that we need to develop them in the US.
His argument/comparison was what Spain did after the 98 WC, creating their own style to help them improve internationally. He also brought up Panama, who lost 7-0, 4-0 to T&T in qualifying in 2002, I think, and then restructured their whole system internally to create a "Panamanian" style of football to compete.
If we continue to "farm out" our potentially best American players to clubs in Europe to develop, we will never be able to create our own system in the US. Instead, we'll just have a mixture of different styles that don't fit as a unit.
Germany did it in 2000 after they finished bottom of their group in euro 2000. They had a complete rethink of their game, they had an overhaul of their youth teams program. England similar 5 yrs ago with St Georges centre.Maybe the Americans need to do something similar. Countries like Spain ,Germany and England have a better starting point due to the interest of football but America as a football nation needs to be moving forward. That's a very easy group the US failed to qualify from. Maybe this will be the catalyst for them to implement a structure. Word is they will host the 2026 world cup in conjunction with Canada and Mexico.
The biggest obstacle to the last two posts is culture. Until the culture changes in the US the development process it can never be equal to Germany and Spain. Therefore, sending some of the top tier youngsters to Europe immerses the player into the daily competitiveness of players of equal/greater ability whereas in the US there won't be the competition for the top tier - they'll always be above the others and thus given the preferential treatment and adulation, pretty much what we presently see with the national team players that quit Europe and return to MLS.
I keep seeing this example thrown out there and I really don't think it's all that analogous. They finished bottom in their group in 2000, but they also then went on and had a string of good-to-great results at major tournaments (Euro 2004 aside) immediately afterward. They did, however, do the rethink their youth development and are now reaping the benefits. I guess that's more the point.
The problem is not that America's best athletes are not playing soccer. Athleticism is something that American teams usually have above all other things. That and desire/commitment/never-say-die attitude. Harnessing the existing talent and developing the technical sides of the game are the real issues. One might argue that if football were bigger in the US and more kids played it, you'd have a bigger talent pool, more funding, better academies, etc, but saying we need the best athletes playing is the wrong way to look at it; you need the infrastructure in place that will best utilize, nurture and better whatever talent is available.
Mind you, the current talent still should have qualified for the World Cup. And there are plenty of exciting young talents that are supposedly on their way up. What this failure does afford the US, however, is provide the impetus for asking the hard questions and making the changes that could yield a world class program in the future. They have 600 days before the next competitive match. What, nearly 3 years before the preliminary stages of WC2022 qualifying? Five years until WC2022. Now is the time to rethink the game in this country.
They'll just have MLS or Adidas/Nike come up with some stupid alteration to Generation Adidas/Project 40 or a Project 2010 reboot.
Unfortunately, this will happen, with similar results for the next 12 years
Recently, there have been none. There are still great athletes who play in the NFL in the 5'8 to 6 range and that the pool that needs to be able draw from going forward. (Obviously before they get into American football)
Speaking on culture...
Philly Congressman Angers U.S. Soccer Fans — All 11 of Them
Yeah, feck all that noise. Both him and that headline. What is it? Isn’t soccer the second most popular sport for people under 30?
Collegiate sports have time limitations on practice during the off-season and during the season. Basketball is an individual sport where you can train on your own on a fixed routine away from your team during the summer months and improve. College football has much more practice and time restrictions and it's having an impact on the NFL as players are not as prepared when they come out of college, especially offensive lineman. And if you can't training as a team in football, you don't improve.
Collegiate soccer is stunting the growth of American soccer players. Period. From 14 to 19, you need to be training more full-time within a competitive team setting and education is secondary. A college education is not for everybody, but that's the rhetoric because going to college makes a lot of institutions (banks, colleges, standardized test companies, endowments) a shit ton of money.
American kids at this age who play soccer are playing to win and playing for scholarships instead of getting better technically and understanding how to think and play within a team structure/system.
It has been argued in the past few years to lengthen the college soccer season to cover the entire academic calendar - ten months with a winter break and to hold the title game in warmer weather.
Doesn't appear to be for the development purposes but to address injury concerns, cramped schedules, and increase practices (and save the programs due to attendance factors). No idea if this will be approved. Nonetheless, collegiate soccer played for ten months still won't better the product - the quality at this level simply isn't there.
There is no need to lean on the NCAA for soccer player development. The NHL and MLS have their own minor leagues for player development.
I actually attended college/university where the National Soccer Hall of Fame has been located in New York, a small city called Oneonta. Because of the museum, a lot of international and lower-level club friendlies were held there over the years. I've always thought of it as symbolic for U.S. soccer because compared to the major metropolises, this place (a nice town) is in the boondocks. There is no interstate highway to get there, so from New York City you would have to drive about 4-5 hours by county roads. The hall is actually shut down according to what I've heard and will be moved to the new stadium in Frisco, Texas.
Soccer/football in this country just has not taken root. I'm 39 now and had been interested in football from when I was maybe 7 or 8 because of TV. No one in my neighborhood was the least bit interested in playing at that age. There might have been a ball lying around in the schoolyard that kids knocked about for a couple of minutes but nothing meaningful. I don't know about the experiences of others here, but it was impossible to find a neighborhood league at the time. There was one attempt by the local boys' athletic club to start a soccer league but the idea died just as quickly as it started. My high school and, of course, my college (which was Division I for soccer) had teams but I could never have made them because the players there had fallen into better circumstances than me.
It is a real problem when someone at that age has genuine interest in playing but there is no inclusive national system in place to teach him the nuances of the sport. The U.S. has been fortunate in that it's held monopolies on sports like baseball, basketball, and American football. These sports developed from their infancy in the U.S., so they pretty much exist on self-sustaining models. Soccer did not evolve as a distinctly American sport, so there is no grassroots framework in place compared to systems like in Latin America or in European countries like the Netherlands where children, regardless of economic stratum, are taught a distinct way to play from practically the cradle and the national program can discover talents from an early age. It is a joke that U.S. Soccer continues in this elitist system and chooses to overlook thousands of lower-income youths (especially from the Latino community) who could help to make the USMNT competitive.
What's surprising, almost shocking, is that even with the advance of multiculturalism in the U.S., the contempt people hold for soccer largely hasn't changed. People keep dropping the same tired lines about the sport being boring, the diving, the lack of scoring, while there are sports that have been completely consumed by doping (baseball), sports whose governing bodies turn a blind eye to health epidemics (NFL concussion issue), and sports whose scoring rate is becoming comparable in a lot of ways to soccer (NHL). Yet thousands of people, set in their ways, continue to spend millions on those sports and look at soccer as a foreigner's or woman's game. A lot of it is just perception and laziness on the part of the audience to understand what soccer offers.
Maybe this attitude will change down the road. More and more people are watching the European leagues and World Cup in this country than previously, although I'm not sure if it's because of the increasing presence of immigrants rather than a change in mindset. All I know is that the loss to T&T came as no shock to me at all and I've had trouble taking the USMNT seriously.
@marlowe78 You went to SUNY Oneonta?
There isn't a need you're correct as are many people, but education is so important to these people, especially the ones that can afford the pay to play families/parents.
The NHL and youth hockey is extremely organized however, the number of youth players is much smaller and centralized and can be mainstreamed through the system. The MLS does not have their own minor leagues, as those lower division clubs are not affiliated to MLS clubs.
Great post. Would like to add too is that culturally, the US media doesn't showcase the potential money or culture sense/influence soccer actually has. Basketball and American football transcends American culture and there's a lot of money in it. There's a lot of money at each level starting with college football and basketball. NHL and MLS salaries pale compared to NFL, MLB and NBA. As do personal endorsement potential. The very elite can make a great living in soccer across the world. You see so much more of the world, potentially, as a soccer player than an American sports athlete.
The odd thing is that soccer is such an inclusive sport in terms of natural physical features. You would think the US would grasp this. You can play at the highest level if you have the right mixture of brain, technique and physical know-how. NFL, NBA cut out the majority of the male population in the United States. Not as much in baseball or hockey, golf definitely not.
We should establish a pathway for those youngsters who want to play, and not crowbar them into the farce that is the student-athlete model used by NCAA football and basketball. The pay to play parents can decide to send their kids off into the NCAA, but we have no shortage of graduates of this system and our football is shit.
You're correct about the MLS not owning the minor leagues.
I think it's partly because there hasn't been a genuine American superstar that could make it more attractive to kids. Every footballing nation has at least one player who has flourished on the world stage, if not many. I know guys like Dempsey and Howard are known players but this isn't Ronaldo, Messi, or Cruyff we're talking about. Even a small country like Chile has fielded Vidal and Sanchez in recent years, bona fide world class players. Pulisic might become that player but there would be the caveat that he's not a genuine product of the U.S. program - at least not in my opinion. It's actually pretty damning that he's a player who was taken by BVB's academy and he's so much farther advanced than the players around him.
What's helped the U.S. women's team is that there's been a series of star players that have come out of the program. Players like Hamm, Foudy, Chastain, etc. got the ball rolling when the women's sport first started. This inspired girls to take up soccer and has led up to recent talent like Wambach, Lloyd, Morgan. And female players are underpaid compared to the men's teams, so imagine what kind of draw a male superstar player from America would have.
Yes, soccer is a true everyman sport where people of different physical and mental makeups can find a place. It's also, all things being equal, a sport that has very low financial barriers to entry. All someone needs to play is a ball, aside from the kit, field, and exercise facilities, which a program could supply if needed.
Yes, I did.
Just being a smart ass here but the thing I first noticed about your pics is that not one kid has a ball. The only game going on appears to be ring around the flag pole!
Does it really need the superstar hype? I hope not as that is the part of football today that I do not really like.
Pretty much sums it up....a lot of youth soccer teams are being coached by parents who have no business in that position....a lot of times these girls/boys are playing just to keep busy...rec and travel...they really have no interest in continuing their career more than a few years.
It's an embarrassment. Fire the coach. Get rid of the old players. It's time for a fresh start. Make players play in European leagues instead of taking the easy way out and playing in the MLS. Firing Jurgen was a terrible decision and the head should lose his job for this. Absolutely thrilled we didn't make it. Hopefully it will open the eyes of the "soccer fans" here in the US and realize how complete shit we actually are and find a way to improve.
We're fine in the athleticism department. Physically US teams have never had issues with pace, physicality, etc. It's the lack of tactics, technique, and defensive strategy that is always apparent for as long as I've been watching and following soccer. Altidore is a physical beast, but has shit technique and shouldn't be our best and starting #9. But he scores a penalty or a tap-in and fans forgive and forget. Our defending is also embarrassingly shit. Not just the defenders but we can't defend as a team. I thought when Jurgen was coach we would be more tactically adept, but we still made horrible defensive errors and didn't look cohesive as a team. I am excited for Pulisic, Wood, and a couple up-and-coming players, just a shame we won't be seeing them on the big stage.
Moyes is the answer.
-experience managing in Spain, England, Scotland
-speaks multiple languages
-managed the biggest club in the world
-thrives in warm climate
-great relationships with journalists
The interest just isn't there. Nobody here dreams of playing soccer in a world cup or otherwise.
Other sports will always dominate, pushing soccer to fourth or fifth tier at best. The best athletes will always choose other more lucrative options.
There is not a lot anyone can do with the dearth of talent.
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