VAR - Not the hero we want, the one we need

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Pavl3n, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. Jun 10, 2019

    Zlatan 7 Full Member

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    :lol: I know but you put the ... that I took to you implying you were obviously right :smirk: .
    We’ve had this technology since the 80’s, earlier maybe, I wonder why the wait to use it.

    I see what you’re saying and I suppose it has helped get the fairest result more often than not when I’ve seen it, there’s been some real howlers too though.
    I just can’t help but have my doubts about it that’s all
  2. Jun 10, 2019

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Because the governing bodies have always been managed by people allergic to change. Now it's the complete opposite, new rules and new interpretations left, right and center
  3. Jun 10, 2019

    giorno Full Member

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    Ok i get your point. Don't disagree with it either, but if they're using this software for offside calls i'd have to believe it was after extensive and conclusive evidence of its accuracy. So effectively, those offside situations aren't "too close to call"

    As for the Ajax goal, that was down to an overzealous ref :lol: (in fairness, it was a huge situation in a high profile CL knockout tie involving real madrid on the "bad" side of the call, with VAR having just been introduced to the competition. I can see why they'd get pedantic with that. Going forward it will get better)

    Plus those kind of situations are a rarity
  4. Jun 10, 2019

    Dante Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs

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    Football unlike, say, basketball, is a low scoring game.

    Because football is attritional, territorial, and played over a large surface area with few rest breaks, the powers-that-be need to do everything possible to make sure the final result is reflective of performances and not just down to dumb luck.

    Bearing in mind that the average number of goals per game is only 2.6, refereeing errors often play a bigger role in the final outcome than they do in almost any other sport.

    To come back to basketball, teams scoring dozens of baskets are eventually going to even out any officiating mistakes over the course of a game. Football doesn't have that luxury. Therefore it behooves the law makers to get the two or three most important decisions per match correct.

    VAR is the best way to keep football fair. Yes, it detracts from the immediacy of old. But it adds its own drama and ensures that the referee's disposition is no longer the biggest single influence on matches.

    It's no different from adding linesman to the officiating team. VAR is simply about adding extra reviewers with a different vantage point to help the ref make the final correct decision.
  5. Jun 11, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

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    And also used in many situations which aren’t clear and obvious which is stupid and ruining the game.
  6. Jun 11, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

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    We know this. We’re just saying it’s shit.

    VAR should only be used when the referee has missed something really significant like Zidane’s headbutt, Maradona’s handball, Pirès’ dive and Drogba’s offside. Not to put a fine toothcomb through every goal looking for a reason to disallow it.
  7. Jun 11, 2019

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Even if it's been scored by a handball, I'm sure England would have loved to have the VAR back then vs Argentina or Ireland vs Henry. I'm being pedantic on purpose but it's a matter of defining "significant". This is what many people will have different opinions on it
  8. Jun 11, 2019

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Well. Turns out VAR is properly shit. Bin it off I say
  9. Jun 11, 2019

    Mrs Smoker Full Member

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    Request denied.
  10. Jun 15, 2019

    Spiersey Chelsea fan

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    Watching Copa currently. Referee is Mic'd up and you can clearly hear him discussing with the VAR team when viewing incidents (In portuguese though I assume so no idea what is being said). FA should 100% Mic up the Ref's for VAR and have them clearly explain every decision they make. E.g Player has moved hand to ball so it is a pen. Contact has been made etc.
  11. Jun 15, 2019

    JamiePollocksOG New Member

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    A message for all.

    I'm currently trying to find out which person decides which tv replay's should be shown to the referee?
    Is it the media match producer?
    Is it an official?
    Is it a member of the Premier League or FA?
    And how is this person vetted prior to a game?

    Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
  12. Jun 15, 2019

    awop New Member

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    I would guess the 3/4 man VAR team review every angle they have at their disposal and when the ref checks, they feed him the angle that makes the most sense to take a decision. The referee would need to ask for another angle if he's not sure.Usualy we see the ref only watching one angle multiple times and deciding on that.
    The match producer don't have any input in what the referee sees on its screen.
  13. Jun 20, 2019 at 00:01

    JamiePollocksOG New Member

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    If that is the case then does the referee's need to go on an accredited media course then?
    There seems to be a lack of information on this.
    If i use the CL game between City and Spurs, who made the decision to show the 2 replays he viewed, when we were already given a video replay on tv from a better angle?

    I have an awful feeling that the last part is going to get the wrong reaction, but i believe VAR can be manipulated as my example shows.

    I feel this should be a worry for every football fan.
  14. Jun 20, 2019 at 00:09

    Rafaeldagold Full Member

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    As shown in the woman’s World Cup VAR is inconsistent, massively time consuming & picky & is making the game less enjoyable to play in & to watch.

    It’s such a terrible idea to bring into football. Well the game was fun while it lasted.
  15. Jun 20, 2019 at 00:13

    FootballHQ Full Member

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    From what I've seen again tonight, the replays the ref views in the TV booth are not of the quality required to make quick decisions. No excuse considering there's probably at least 20 different cameras in stadium for World cup match and obviously same for premier league.

    Needs fixing as the 3-4 minute wait for them to make the decision is something that desperately needs to be improved. Can't they put the TV screens behind one of the goals as that speed things up a little.
  16. Jun 20, 2019 at 00:50

    Judas Open to offers

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    Honestly with how shite we are, I'm looking forward to VAR in the PL next season simply because I'll need the extra entertainment.
  17. Jun 20, 2019 at 09:36

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    It made shite of Brazil vs Venezuela in the Concacaf last night too.
  18. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:20

    Mrs Smoker Full Member

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    Conmebol. Long wait or wrong decisions?
  19. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:28

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Three goals disallowed in a 0-0 draw. Two seemed to be correct decisions, third one a complete mystery. Lengthy delays and confusion in all three incidents.
  20. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:30

    Wal2Fra Full Member

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    For me, the concept of VAR is fine. The issue is those who use it. Some of the referees are taking to long and are reviewing the same piece of footage for 5 minutes. If they are not sure on the 2nd viewing, either ask for a different angle or get on with it as the incident clearly isn't visible enough to overturn the decision.

    Also from a fan in the stand point of view, there is no explanation as to what has happened or happening. Was at the Australia Brazil game and we spend 5 minutes on 2 seperate occasions just hanging around with no idea what is being looked at.
  21. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:37

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Which is a disgrace. It winds me up bad enough having it interrupt the spectacle on television. It's absolute fecking madness that match-going fans are having their entertainment ruined the way you describe. To fix a "problem" which hasn't stopped football going from strength to strength over hundreds of years.
  22. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:38

    jojojo Moderator Staff

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    Well, duh.

  23. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:40

    Mb194dc Full Member

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    Pretty much, implementation of it has been rushed and the procedures aren't clear for referees. Especially if they're not using it in day to day league football.

    I thought it worked well in La Liga last year and I fully expect them to improve it this year, and the referees to be much more comfortable with procedures and the system.

    I think in the premier league it's going to be interesting as IMO the quality of decisions overall is very poor. Especially for offsides!, which could result in VAR having to do a lot of work. At least it seems they have now accepted the international version of VAR and are not using a unique one.
  24. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:41

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Which completely undermines the "rules are the rules" rhetoric we've been hearing about VAR as applied to microscopic offsides and ridiculous handball decisions.

    Here's a radical suggestion, why not leave all decisions to on-field officials?
  25. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:42

    giorno Full Member

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    You mean Firmino's goal? Firmino was offside
  26. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:44

    giorno Full Member

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    Because then we're back to outlandish stuff like City vs Liverpool. Games or knockout ties decided by inept refereeing
  27. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:45

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    So that's stopped happening now we have VAR?
  28. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:46

    giorno Full Member

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    So far yes, at least
  29. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:50

    U-N-I-T-E-D New Member

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    Whichever way it pans out in the future VAR is and was completely worth it for the last minute of the Spurs v City game.

    At a time where there’s not much to watch at OT it was absolutely beautiful.
  30. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:50

    Zlatan 7 Full Member

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    I disagree
  31. Jun 20, 2019 at 10:51

    jojojo Moderator Staff

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    I think it'll force them to think about what sort of rule they want to enforce. We all think we can tell the difference between fair anticipation in moving onto the jumping foot and unfair stepping forward - unfortunately VAR can try and implement the rule exactly as written (with obvious huge difficulty, as you can tell by how long the checks take).

    In other news - I reckon DdG is probably the one keeper it doesn't affect. Maybe his poor penalty saving record comes down to him a biding by the rule :smirk:
  32. Jun 20, 2019 at 11:11

    giorno Full Member

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    Example? Use one that isn't clear and obvious corruption like the african CL final
  33. Jun 20, 2019 at 11:18

    RochaRoja Full Member

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    I actually like that they’ve been punishing the goalkeepers coming off their lines. It’s cheating, pure and simple.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019 at 11:26
  34. Jun 20, 2019 at 11:21

    RochaRoja Full Member

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    Wasn’t the third one a clear offside from Firmino who had the last touch?

    I mean the “two players have to be between the attacker and the goal” has always been stupid and should clearly be simplified to “one player (excluding the goalkeeper)” but that is the rule.
  35. Jun 20, 2019 at 11:24

    RochaRoja Full Member

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    Honestly one of the only things VAR actually is useful for. Keepers are cheating on around 9/10 penalties you see saved and the officials never do anything about it. It could literally be picked up instantly by VAR with no delay or review so why not use it?
  36. Jun 20, 2019 at 11:25

    RochaRoja Full Member

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    Instead we’ve had knockout ties decided by bullshit VAR calls. The CL this year was full of them.
  37. Jun 20, 2019 at 11:27

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    Just because it's not being implemented well in one form of the game doesn't mean it shouldn't be implement. Watch BL matches to see how it is properly implemented. I like the new way the offside is implemented where play is continued if it is a clear goalscoring opportunity and after the goal is scored the referee puts the flag up to indicate he/she thinks it's offside, which is then further checked, rather than putting the flag up immediately and preventing play from continuing. The only issue with VAR is that there is still judgement from the ref regarding fouls, which I guess you can never remove from the game.

    VAR interventions are never as long in the BL as they were in the Argentina Scotland farce. Just because they, or the refs in the FA Cup, don't know how to use it doesn't mean it should be discarded. Rather, proper training and methods should be put in place.

    Which bullshit calls?
  38. Jun 20, 2019 at 11:29

    Rafaeldagold Full Member

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    Cheating is being a few cms off your line..goalkeepers won’t have a chance now- May as well just give the team the goal!

    I think it’s petty & needless. Making the game more & more pedantic & stop start.
  39. Jun 20, 2019 at 11:35

    R'hllor Full Member

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    Oh yea lets put everything in hands of those incompetent clowns, what a great idea. Next level guff.
  40. Jun 20, 2019 at 12:17

    montpelier Full Member

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    Well... the game is played by people with one of them (guided by the rules) deciding what he/she is going to allow. Obviously they can't give what they don't see & they will make mistakes occasionally. This seemed OK for a long time.

    Also, FIFA used to want the game to be the same at all levels.

    VAR was supposed to be about stopping the big mistakes. VAR doesn't seem to be about stopping the big mistakes though, does it?

    Scotland-Argentina got ruined last night. But I suppose the penalty was correct, although we don't quite know for sure, even with the VAR. The well positioned referee presumably had a reason for not giving it.

    I'll say again. Sport is about the slings & arrows of outrageous fortune. Good & bad luck. Bad decisions even. It reflects life supposedly.

    What happened in the City/Spurs game isn't that. It's just a pile of fabricated nonsense - I just don't get why there's a reason to love it so much, I really don't.

    The match result now is going to revolve more & more around a late VAR review - brilliant, :rolleyes:.

    I still think it's worth a trial I suppose, to see what happens with player behaviour & offsides. But too much faffing for what you gain, for me.