1. We are delighted to have been nominated for Best Forum in The Football Blogging Awards. You can vote for us on their website here and via twitter here. You can read the caf thread here. Thanks to anyone who votes for us.
    Dismiss Notice

Varchester City 18/19 discussion

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Bergman, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Apr 10, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    927
    Nowhere near their biggest game of the season to be honest. It’s better they lost narrowly last night than in the Cup semi or any of their league games. Chances are they win the second leg comfortably.
  2. Apr 10, 2019

    Havak Pokemon master

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2006
    Messages:
    5,791
    Location:
    Salford, Manchester
    Couldn't agree less about that being City's biggest game of the season...

    If City fans had to pick one remaining game this season that they had to lose, it would have been that one! Absolute bollocks.

    They're more than capable of brushing aside Spurs twice at home. They have United away in the League and an FA Cup Final to come. They're far more important than a narrow away defeat to Spurs when the most likely result is City putting 3 or 4 past them at the Etihad when they have to turn it on in the second leg.
  3. Apr 10, 2019

    robinamicrowave Wanted to be bran, ended up being littlefinger

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,886
    Supports:
    Man City
    I suppose it was our biggest game of the season if you just make things up.

    We've got an FA Cup final to come, and before that we have a Champions League quarter-final second leg and a Premier League run-in that features a Manchester derby. :lol:
  4. Apr 10, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    33,741
    Location:
    Me, and you. Yo momma, and yo cousin too.
    Supports:
    orderly disembarking on planes
    His away form in CL knockouts is miserable because they are some of the most difficult games you'll play, and teams look to win said games. Apart from Zidane (anomaly with that Real side), which managers have a stellar CL knockout away record?
  5. Apr 10, 2019

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    21,434
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    You never miss a chance to defend Pep, do you. Of course teams look to win those games, what do you expect, to just let Pep win? That's a strange excuse really.
  6. Apr 10, 2019

    andyox New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    198
    Supports:
    Manchester City
    I agree with you to some extent that form in away knock-out CL ties is quite a narrow, challenging metric.

    However, I have been disappointed with the teams Guardiola has sent out in the 1/4 final at Anfield last season, and last night again. Both times he's chosen to sacrifice our usual style and added Gundogan to the midfield. The reality is that based on league form we were a better team than Liverpool last season, and we're a better team than Spurs this season, so why not have the confidence to play our own game? I think he might feel a bit stung still from when we went out to Monaco on away goals in his first season at City.

    We're still in the tie so it's not the end of the world, and as a poster said above, if there's one game we could afford to draw/lose over the next few games, it was last night. But it feels like a missed opportunity.
  7. Apr 10, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    33,741
    Location:
    Me, and you. Yo momma, and yo cousin too.
    Supports:
    orderly disembarking on planes
    As stated earlier in this thread, it's a ridiculous metric.

    I never miss a chance to combat stupid tropes when I'm bored.
  8. Apr 10, 2019

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    59,849
    Location:
    Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
    Given how shit you've been in the Champions League the last few seasons I disagree. I think your owners and fans would trade the FA Cup and League Cup for the Champions League. It was your biggest game this season imo. Losing it 1-0 has put you in a very hard position in the next leg. Which would be wonderful as i'd love to see you knocked out frankly. Maybe its your inexperience in the Champions League, but losing the first leg 1-0 is a very bad result.
  9. Apr 10, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    33,741
    Location:
    Me, and you. Yo momma, and yo cousin too.
    Supports:
    orderly disembarking on planes
    I agree. The first half, Gundogan was a sieve, defensively speaking.
  10. Apr 10, 2019

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    21,434
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    Stupid trope is your beloved Pep has a bad CL away record. Ok. As @andyox said he doesn't trust his team to play their own game and to score away for instance at Spurs and rather plays it safely despite the fact his team is more than capable of hurting any team and scoring at least one away goal. I hope that isn't stupid for your scientific metric.
  11. Apr 10, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    33,741
    Location:
    Me, and you. Yo momma, and yo cousin too.
    Supports:
    orderly disembarking on planes
    It is stupid. Glad you've caught on. I'm here all morning.

    I agree with that poster, however the funny thing is that Pep has been criticized in the past for playing his own game away from home and not adapting to the opposition (not being "pragmatic" is the term used). Now that he does the opposite, he still gets flamed :lol:
  12. Apr 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    4,817
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    I do think City set up strangely, to be fair. It's weird that Guardiola chose a CL knockout game to rest several players, and even weirder that he waited far too long to bring in the big guns, had he brought in De Bruyne/Sane etc around the 60/70 minute mark the likelihood is we actually lose the game.

    It was a very conservative setup, perhaps because he was wary of the bounce that playing in the new stadium in a CL quarter final would bring? I imagine Guardiola knew we would have that extra energy and was wary of getting overrun.

    The funny thing is that the biggest criticism of Guardiola in 'big' games (especially away) is that he approaches them naively and doesn't alter his style. He does so against us and sets up with more defensive cover, and he's now getting criticism for not trusting his team to play their usual way.
  13. Apr 10, 2019

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    21,434
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    Yeah we got a bad CL knockout results since 2014 but it's a stupid metric cause knockouts are hard and other teams want to win.
    So yeah about stupid trope and all.
    Good you'll be here all morning not to let anyone question Pep, don't let it happen at any cost.
  14. Apr 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    4,817
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    You beat me to this by 1 second :lol:

    It's like Eddie Howe/Bournemouth. Got hammered for setting up too naively against the big teams so he set up defensively vs City and only lost 1-0.

    Still got heavily criticised. Shit, another example is Klopp getting stick for ages for being too naive, too open, and then he sets up this season more conservatively and everyone criticises him for that.

    Nobody is ever happy!
  15. Apr 10, 2019

    Skills Snitch

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    27,212
    That was just people trying to sell the narrative that Guardiola is too idealistic, incapable of adapting unlike the great Mourinho.

    Guardiola's problem in away CL ties has been present for a long time.
  16. Apr 10, 2019

    andyox New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    198
    Supports:
    Manchester City
    He's shown this season he can adapt in different ways successfully though. He's on record in the Amazon documentary saying that he was scared of Liverpool's transitions/front 3, and you could see this season in the league games at Anfield and the Etihad that we did adapt our style. The full backs, for example, did not push on as aggressively as normal so that we were not as exposed to counters. But, in both games we still played with our usual shape, which meant two creative midfielders in the midfield 3 and two wingers bombing on, and we should've won both games but for a Mahrez missed penalty.

    For the two CL 1/4 finals he's chosen to change our shape and style by sacrificing one of the creative midfielders or one of the wingers. That's overkill for me, particularly as last night it meant dropping our best player this season (B. Silva). And of course it doesn't help that Gundogan was the additional "safer" midfielder in both ties because I think he's a ghost midfielder.

    I'm nitpicking here, I think Guardiola is a great manager obviously, but I've just been slightly disappointed by his choices in these two 1/4 final away games.
  17. Apr 10, 2019

    Josh 76 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    811
    This is spot on.
  18. Apr 10, 2019

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    21,434
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    Delph drifted to midfield thus dragging Spurs defense and making space for Gundogan yet many times they optioned for passed to wingers maybe cause they were wary of Spurs transition. But the main problem and question is why he waited so long with Sane sub.
    Of course they're still favorites at home but people thinking City is dead on scoring a few vs Spurs without reply are wrong. One Spurs goal and they're in big trouble.
  19. Apr 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    4,817
    Supports:
    Tottenham

    It's weird. People act like we're some pub side who they can score 3/4 against us whilst barely trying.

    We are a good team. And with a 1 goal lead we can set up on the counter, where Lucas & Son should thrive. This isn't a good situation for City to be in and it's not a case of simply turning up at home and they're through.

    Yes, they are still favourites, and I wouldn't be surprised if they went through 3-1 or something. But if we lost 3/4 nil I'd be very disappointed in us, we're capable of better than that.
  20. Apr 10, 2019

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    21,434
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    Yeah if you dont bottle it you'll be all right

    Just kidding. :D agree on everything. City will want to score fast thus giving Spurs chance to hit them on the counter.
  21. Apr 10, 2019

    FujiVice Full Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5,133
    Has there ever been a less interesting good side in the history of football? Its so weird. Whatever they do, there seems to be a bigger story. Liverpool havent won anything, yet the last two years they've been the bigger talking point among the game. Adding to the fact they fiddle the books to make it seem like they're more profitable and not being able to fill their stadium, its almost like people cant get past the fact they are still Man City. You cant buy class I guess.
  22. Apr 10, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    927
    If anything, I think City will come out with a lot of intensity against Spurs and will blow them away if they get their usual early goal.

    The last three league games between the two sides before last night, City were ridiculously dominant and could have won the games at Wembley even more comfortably than they did. Last night was a bit of a wild card due to the new stadium factor and I don’t think City will be too gutted to come away with a 0-1 defeat after what happened at Anfield last season. Back at home, City are big favourites to turn it round for me.
  23. Apr 10, 2019

    andyox New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    198
    Supports:
    Manchester City
    I would possibly have us as very marginal favourites if we'd lost 2-1 last night, but 1-0 is a much more dangerous scoreline purely for the reasons you outline. We're in big, big trouble if you catch us out on the break. Our home form has been great in the PL and CL this season, but you're going into the second leg with a lead and without conceding an away goal, so you have to be considered favourites.
  24. Apr 10, 2019

    andyox New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    198
    Supports:
    Manchester City
    We were so close to getting through a page of this thread without a mention of financial doping or our lack of fans! Hopefully next page we can do it.
  25. Apr 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    4,817
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    We were shit at Wembley. Barely felt like a home stadium.

    And still, that game was 50/50. They were not dominant. I think they deserved to win but it was far from one sided and had Lamela not scuffed a late shot it would have been 1-1.

    Look, no doubt they're still favourites, but they're in a precarious position if we can get a goal. The failure to get an away goal is a significant issue for them.
  26. Apr 10, 2019

    stepic Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    5,099
    beating Tottenham by 3-4 at home is definitely not the most likely result.

    if Spurs get a single goal, City are suddently under huge pressure.

    it was a big game last night, i'm not sure how or why anyone is trying to deny that. an away game in a knock out CL fixture trumps the FA cup any day.
  27. Apr 10, 2019

    Havak Pokemon master

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2006
    Messages:
    5,791
    Location:
    Salford, Manchester
    No one is trying to deny it wasn't a big game, just far from the biggest game they have left. I would guarantee any City fan would rather have lost that game narrowly than lose any of their other remaining fixtures this season. They will fancy their chances to right that result in the second leg, whilst losing the FA Cup Final is a trophy gone and losing a League game at this stage probably hands the title to Liverpool.

    It is absolute nonsense to say this was City's biggest game of the season. Of course a Champion's League quarter final first leg is a huge game, but I didn't see anyone saying it wasn't.

    If they'd have lost this game more than 2-0 then it'd be a different discussion, but I still maintain this was their only affordable slip up if winning everything is their main goal (which I think it surely is).

    They are still favourites to get through this tie, they are still favourites to win the FA Cup and they are still favourites to win the Premier League. Losing to Spurs last night has changed absolutely nothing about their season and their overall goal. Hence, it wasn't their most important or pivotal game. Far from it, in fact.
  28. Apr 10, 2019

    andyox New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    198
    Supports:
    Manchester City
    If the CL is the be all and end all for you, then sure. But even so, it was only a quarter-final.

    The League Cup final, the league games vs Liverpool, the league game and one to come vs United, all our remaining league games to come, the FA Cup final to come. All much, much bigger games for me.

    But don't get me wrong, I'm still disappointed we lost last night.
  29. Apr 10, 2019

    robinamicrowave Wanted to be bran, ended up being littlefinger

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,886
    Supports:
    Man City
    You're probably right, but I care so little about the Champions League compared to all the other competitions. Have said before - maybe not on here, I can't remember - that I'd happily lose 25-0 to Spurs next week if it meant we won the FA Cup and went into the last week of the season in the title race. Maybe I'm not the best judge.
  30. Apr 10, 2019

    stepic Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    5,099
    well it's definitely not the biggest game they have left. i'd argue it was their biggest game of the season so far, though.

    the CL is far more important to me than the FA Cup and definitely the League Cup.

    are you saying you'd have preferred to win the League Cup final and lose last night, rather than lose the League Cup final but win last night 1-0? i admire your confidence going into the return leg, but i'd take the latter any day of the week.
  31. Apr 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    4,817
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    Jesus christ.

    City fans and their attitude towards the CL is so, so strange. As a fan of a club who simply wasn't involved in these competitions for so long, it's incredible just to be playing in it. It's the pinnacle of club football.

    Maybe being handed everything so easily just means you can't appreciate this as much as clubs who earned their way up the natural way.
  32. Apr 10, 2019

    horsechoker Sailor vee, this is a right off.

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    Messages:
    10,377
    Location:
    The stable
    Not sure if City will outclass Spurs in the 2nd leg or Spurs will just bottle it. I can see City getting two late goals or Spurs failing to score a vital away goal to win the match.
  33. Apr 10, 2019

    SportingCP96 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2014
    Messages:
    2,740
    Supports:
    Sporting Clube de Portugal
    I dont agree. It is very important yes but in a FA Cup Final you have the chance to win a major trophy. This is a knockout fixture if you get through and then lose ti Juve it really is the same you dont win anything for losing in the semis or quarters.

    Now a CL final or FA Cup final is very very different.
  34. Apr 10, 2019

    andyox New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    198
    Supports:
    Manchester City
    There's probably two elements to my reply, one of which is down to my own prejudices...

    1) The League Cup final is a one-off game, whereas the CL 1/4 final is two legs. So obviously one is a must win, and the other is not. So yes I'd rather win the League Cup final on that basis. This would be my logical answer to your question, irrespective of how important I think each competition is;

    2) In common with @robinamicrowave above, of the four trophies available, the CL is the least important to me. I'd rather win the FA Cup than the CL, and I'd rather win the League Cup than the CL. So yes, I'd have preferred to win the League Cup final, but I realise that this element to my reply is more controversial and based on my own issues with the CL!
  35. Apr 10, 2019

    Raw Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    21,268
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    This is so strange to me and I don't think I'll ever understand it :eek:
  36. Apr 10, 2019

    SER19 Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,687
    What is the exact nature of your issues with the champions league.
  37. Apr 10, 2019

    SER19 Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,687
    Bingo
  38. Apr 10, 2019

    Havak Pokemon master

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2006
    Messages:
    5,791
    Location:
    Salford, Manchester
    I can see the 'so far argument', but at this point in the season I'd say every single remaining game on City's fixture list is bigger when they get to it. Even including the likes of Palace at the weekend, purely because of how damaging any loss in those games would be. Blink first in the title race and it is probably over. Lose to Watford and you've lost a Trophy, not just half a game (and incredibly narrowly at that). Of course, it could all go to crap and City drop out of the Champion's League largely because of that 1-0 loss, but as it stands City should be very confident. You're still lucky to get 1.7 on City qualifying for the next round of the Champion's League, which shows just how favourable they still are despite being 1-0 down.

    They are a far better side than Spurs and should be very confident of overturning that result. Anything can happen in football, but realistically City should have too much.
  39. Apr 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    4,817
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    We won't know how big last nights game was for City until the return leg is played.

    If they win that 4-0, it will not have been a big game, but if they end up winning 2-1 at the Etihad and go out on away goals then yeah, suddenly it's arguably the biggest game of their season.

    It hasn't had any real consequences yet.
  40. Apr 10, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    927
    They can lose last night and still win four trophies.

    If they lost the League Cup final they couldn’t win four trophies.

    It’s really not that difficult to understand.