Varchester City 18/19 discussion

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Bergman, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Apr 10, 2019

    andyox Full Member

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    I have posted about this before, and I'm not sure you're actually genuinely interested in knowing my own opinion given your "bingo" reply to @SquishyMcSquish, but I'll bite even though I know you'll disagree and have a go back! :)

    1) To give some context about my age, my first City game was in 1990 (coincidentally against Spurs). As a young fan and as a fan of City, who were not playing in Europe, I genuinely had no interest in European football or the CL (as it soon became) whatsoever. My only frame of reference was City and what City were playing in and I had no interest in watching other teams play in European competition. I think my only knowledge that European football was happening came from my Dad hoping that United lost whatever game they were playing. Prior to City playing in the CL for the first time, I can only ever remember watching one CL game in my lifetime, which was when Liverpool won the final in Istanbul, as my housemate at the time was a big Liverpool fan and I watched with him. Whereas I watched the FA Cup final and the League Cup final every year I suppose because I felt City could one day make it there (and of course I was proud that we had previously won both competitions before my lifetime);

    2) To me, the domestic league (and to a lesser extent the domestic cup competitions) is the absolute pinnacle of accomplishment. I think perhaps this derives from the tribalism of football. I am English and grew up with fans of other English clubs, obviously. There's an extra sense of satisfaction when my club beats or finishes above a mate's club (it didn't happen often pre-2008 to be fair...). That element is lost in European competition. I don't know any Real Madrid or Bayern fans etc. There's no tribal element of "otherness" or one-upmanship to it;

    3) Football is about trophies, surely! I have never understood the glory in finishing in the top 4. That's not a trophy, that's just a qualification for another competition;

    Now to the more controversial parts...

    4) As I have said in other posts, prior to the ADUG takeover I had given up any hope of ever seeing City win a trophy in my lifetime. A major part of that was down to our own shambolic management. But another part of that lost hope was the changing structure of football and particularly the impact of CL football on the revenue of the top clubs. In my eyes at the time, the top clubs qualified for the CL, they earnt the additional CL revenue, they used the additional revenue to again qualify for the CL, and round in circles. This was at a time when CL revenue had a disproportionately larger impact on the overall revenue of English clubs than it does now (TV money is now king). It felt like City didn't have a chance however well we did. So yes, I did have a lingering resentment about the CL because I thought it was playing a part in the rich getting richer, and making it more difficult for my club to ever accomplish anything;

    5) The CSKA Moscow away game and UEFA's complete disregard for City fans and the money paid out before UEFA decided to play the game behind closed doors. I hate the treatment of matchgoing fans (irrespective of club) and the constant deference to TV fans over matchgoing fans in the eyes of the PL, UEFA etc, so to me that was unforgivable. I have also posted here about Spurs' treatment of City fans earlier this season after the fixture had to be changed due to Spurs' inability to open their stadium on time. I won't forget that lightly either;

    6) I'm going to mention this only because you're probably assuming it. UEFA and FFP honestly isn't a big factor in my CL apathy, which far pre-dated FFP. And anyway, I blame the elite clubs far more than I blame UEFA for the design and implementation of FFP;

    7) I also have issues with the design of the CL, which probably links to #4 above really, and is currently being discussed in other threads on the forum so I won't go into detail. I'd be much more interested in the CL if I felt it was purely a competition of title-winners (knock-out, non-seeded), rather than a seeded and skewed revenue-generator for the elite clubs.
  2. Apr 10, 2019

    robinamicrowave Wanted to be bran, ended up being littlefinger

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    Not really. I care deeply about our fortunes in the Premier League, I can't wait for the FA Cup final and I'm desperate for us to win it, and winning the League Cup this year was a wonderful moment. I supported this club between the ages of 4 to 17 without us winning a thing and I received taunts at school every day about how shit we were compared to United. Don't say it doesn't mean as much just because it's been handed to us like a lottery win - I constantly relish the fact that a club of our size and stature pre-2008 got to live out some amazing dreams because it could all be gone tomorrow.

    But the Champions League is different. It might be the "pinnacle of club football", as you put it, but being part of that elite club bothers me. I've not been to a Champions League game since Liverpool knocked us out last season, and that's because I couldn't bring myself to care about the result as it was happening in front of me. I'd even missed the first leg defeat at Anfield because I was simply out doing other things. When we first qualified back in 2011 it was a fantastic feeling to go to the Etihad and hear that anthem, but over the years I began to feel like it was a sham.

    Tickets are incredibly expensive when compared to Premier League and FA Cup games. UEFA do their whole "No to racism" campaign on the big screens but don't ever back it up, and I still believe they would sooner punish a team for walking off the pitch in the face of racist abuse than they would ban the offending team from the competition. Hell, we once had to close 3,000 seats off from the public because UEFA wanted taller advertising hoardings. The "matchday experience" of a Champions League match is incredibly alienating. After years of exposure to this kind of environment, the novelty wore off.

    And though it might be a personal thing, going to night games is a chore for me for a number of reasons. I work 9-5 from Monday to Friday, I work in Bury and live a 40-45 minute drive from home, and I can't just grab a quick something to eat at the ground because I have complicated dietary restrictions and health issues, so I'd need to go home to eat first. A Premier League game is barely worth the effort it takes for me to attend a night game (haven't been to a night game in three months), so the Champions League definitely isn't worth it.

    I know City don't give a feck about me anymore. They care about the money I give them and that's it. But when attending Premier League games I'm at least surrounded by people I've sat with for years, so there's a sense of routine and community about the average home game, for instance, that makes it feel comfortable. Whenever I attend a Champions League game, however, I feel completely insignificant. Not only do City not care about me beyond the cash I've parted with to attend the game, but neither do UEFA, neither does Pep, neither do Txiki Begiristain and Ferran Soriano, neither do Gazprom, or any of the other sponsors they throw in my face while I'm there.

    The Champions League is the big boys' corporate table, and when I'm sat in the stadium watching a game in the competition that's all I can think about. So forgive me if I don't quite see it as the pinnacle of football.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  3. Apr 10, 2019

    SER19 Full Member

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    I truly don’t understand how you can outline such moral reasons to dislike the competition while seemingly enjoying city’s success. The other reasons, don’t make a whole lot of sense to me either, particularly how winning the league cup beating a bunch of lower league teams on the way is more satisfying than a champions league win.

    But I’ve given up trying to make sense of city fans for the most part, so I won’t bother you with a back and forth, thanks for detailed reply in any case
  4. Apr 10, 2019

    stepic Full Member

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    they can fail to win at home next week and therefore go out of the CL, the biggest club tournament in world football.

    the League Cup is an utterly pointless competition no one (besides City fans, apparently) cares about.

    it's really not that difficult to understand.
  5. Apr 10, 2019

    andyox Full Member

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    Fair enough and yes there's contradictions in there for sure. To be clear I do have moral issues with ADUG, but I can hold my nose on that to an extent because ultimately I was a City fan before ADUG and I'll be a City fan after ADUG. I can't choose not to be a City fan. I can choose not to be a big fan of a particular competition.
  6. Apr 10, 2019

    Schneckerl Full Member

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    Sure, it's far from over.

    Forget about the "away" part for a moment. Obviously what matters is whether they advance or not in the end.
    If City gets knocked out in this round, how isn't it massive underachievment for them in the CL since Pep took over?

    You can't argue with what Pep did with Barca, even with Bayern despite never making the final the team went out against Real, Barca and Atletico.
    However the record with City - assuming they won't make it - doesn't look good.
    Is it just "bad luck" of a KO competition? Agüero missed a penalty, last year there were some wrong calls IIRC. Still I think his approach yesterday had room for improvement - for example the last minute Sane & De Bruyne subs.
  7. Apr 10, 2019

    cyberman Full Member

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    This game is bigger than all of those. Fecking FA final...its a favourable tie to qualify for the CL semi final, a stage that you've only reached once despite dover a billion spent on investment..
  8. Apr 10, 2019

    cyberman Full Member

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    You can argue against Peps Bayern record, he took over a side that reached two finals in a row, were defending CL champions and had them basically be eliminated after the first leg each time. Hell Juve should have put them out in his last season there if it wasn't for imcompetent officiating. He lessened the qualities of that fantastic side imo.
    Pep reputaton is based off having Messi and league bullying at this stage. He's not been out thinking or outplaying the top sides in Europe for a long while now
  9. Apr 10, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

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    There's nothing really to criticize or praise for. Let's wait for next 4/5 weeks. City and pep can go from chasing a quadruple to winning only a cup. Will be interesting to see how people defend losing title/CL exit if it happened.
  10. Apr 10, 2019

    robinamicrowave Wanted to be bran, ended up being littlefinger

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    Yeah, this is the up and down of it for me as well. To be honest, I'm starting to reach a point with City - and with football in general - where I want the European Super League to be formed just so I no longer feel the obligation to attend games. If that happens then I have a reason to stop going to City matches and I can give my money to local clubs who really need me. ADUG aren't running City for the benefit of us fans, and they don't even need to us attend matches, which makes our increasing ticket prices even more infuriating. ADUG took us over to hoard wealth and improve their public image in the west so we don't go sniffing around their abuse of basic human rights. It's not something I've made my peace with, I just attend games and celebrate our victories out of nothing but habit and loyalty. I've honestly been looking to give up my season ticket since 2017 but my love for City that stretches back before ADUG even knew we existed keeps making me care. Going to Champions League games is a slap in the face and a reminder that we're trying to become a super-club who get cosy with corrupt bureaucrats to get ahead. I'm grateful for the players we have and the trophies we've won, but I prefer the club we were between 2010 - 2014, still winning trophies but charging kids £5 a game and being revealed as the best "value for money" club in the country. Obviously the football we play under Pep (and under Txiki and Soriano, to be fair to them) is amazing, but the creeping corporate elements coming with them are turning me off.
  11. Apr 10, 2019

    gaucho_10 Full Member

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    Pep is a loser. Last time he won away in CL quarter final was in 2011. and his Barca sucked really bad away from home even in their best years.

    City fans will hate the competition when they go out. They'll never win it, not under this guy.
  12. Apr 10, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

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    Yeah but they probably won’t so it’s irrelevant.

    The League Cup may be insignificant compared to the Champions League but I wouldn’t throw away the final of it and a guaranteed trophy to not be 1-0 down at half time of a quarter final.

    Also, while the least important of the trophies, the League Cup could well form part of a possible domestic treble. If City manage that it’d be a great achievement.
  13. Apr 10, 2019

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    Sane has barely started recently. The last big game he started he scored the winning goal against Liverpool. It's bizarre that Mahrez is starting ahead of him.
  14. Apr 10, 2019

    Johnny Love New Member

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    Pep really does overthink at times. He did the same thing at Bayern and at Barca to some extent.
  15. Apr 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    I'm slightly struggling with the idea that you're ran by the dictionary definition of elitists but somehow you draw the line with enjoying watching the Champions League. It's really confusing and really seems very arbitrary, the Premier League is possibly the most corporate table there is with the tv money, but you're happy to celebrate winning that but don't care about European titles? You relish the 'amazing dreams' that your elitist owners financed via a corrupt regime, but all you can think about whilst at a Champions League game is how it's all too corporate?

    I don't find the Champions League any more corporate than the Premier League, and the magic is still definitely there for games. It seems to me you look down on the 'elite' clubs whereas for someone like me it's a pleasure to see Spurs go head to head with sides like Barcelona, Madrid etc. Different attitudes to football I guess?
  16. Apr 10, 2019

    robinamicrowave Wanted to be bran, ended up being littlefinger

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    Explained myself a little more in another post:

  17. Apr 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Fair enough. At least you're honest about it and don't ignore the issues within your own club.

    I get it, I've expressed my own worries over how corporate some elements of our new stadium are. It's obviously incredible but at the same time it's almost a shopping centre, everything is generated around making money, doesn't really feel like the football pitch itself is the priority.

    I accept it though, that is the reality of the modern game.
  18. Apr 15, 2019

    Josh 76 Full Member

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    3 more wins and title is City's.
    Come on Pep, you can do it !
  19. Apr 15, 2019

    Trizy New Member

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    If City win their next 3 games it gives them a possible 92 points. Whereas Liverpool have 4 games to play that could give them 97 points.

    City pretty much have to win their remaining 5 games assuming Liverpool don't feck up.
  20. Apr 15, 2019

    andyox Full Member

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    Agreed. Liverpool's last 4 games should be 4 wins. We'll have to win all of ours, including at OT, to win the league.
  21. Apr 15, 2019

    Buchan has whacked the hammer to Roswell

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    Come on you horrible, plastic bastards!

    Five more wins, ta.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  22. Apr 15, 2019

    GhastlyHun Full Member

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    City have five games remaining.
  23. Apr 15, 2019

    Trizy New Member

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    I'd rather see City win the league 100 times out of 100 when it comes to Liverpool competing but I'd imagine United won't (and rightly so) roll over for City. I can't bring myself to hope we submit to City just to stop Liverpool winning it, we're completely shite but we're not that small time.

    I expect a cracking game but either result will feel like a loss but a win will help us on our important hunt for top 4.
  24. Apr 15, 2019

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Given Liverpool's fixtures they have to win 5/5 IMO. I feel they won't do that and will need a Liverpool slip up.
  25. Apr 15, 2019

    Buchan has whacked the hammer to Roswell

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    You’re right. Edited.
  26. Apr 15, 2019

    Buchan has whacked the hammer to Roswell

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    Warnock might do the footballing world a huge favour next Sunday. That’s potentially tricky for Liverpool after a tough away fixture in Europe midweek. I expect Porto to really go at them on Wednesday night.
  27. Apr 15, 2019

    Trizy New Member

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    Imagine how glorious it would be for City to lose or draw 1 game, and it goes to the last day of the season and Wolves batter Liverpool. :drool:
  28. Apr 15, 2019

    Josh 76 Full Member

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    I know they have to win 5 games. But if City win their next 3 games, Spurs , Utd and Burnley, then it's surely in the bag. Can't see them slipping up against Leicester or Brighton.
  29. Apr 15, 2019

    jontheblue Full Member

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    Look what happened when we needed to beat QPR at home on the last day to win the league.....almost didn't happen (sorry, not trying to rub it in)

    Anything can happen in football and where City are concerned, it normally does

    If there is to be a slip (from either team) it will not necessarily be where most expected - prior to losing against Spurs in the first leg, we had won 22 out of our previous 23 games in all competitions. The one we didn't win was against Newcastle......
  30. Apr 15, 2019

    Josh 76 Full Member

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    Utd home record against big teams at OT.

    Spurs lost
    Liverpool draw
    Arsenal draw
    Juventers lost
    PSG lost
    Barcalona lost

    City have a good record at OT. Can only see one winner.
  31. Apr 15, 2019

    Trizy New Member

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    Including City, 5 of those teams are in the top 5 teams in the world at the moment. Bit unfair to expect better results given that we're rightly placed in the table.
  32. Apr 15, 2019

    Havak Pokemon master

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    I've just been looking at the Premier League Table from this season and last...

    If City were to win all of their remaining games, they'll have amassed 198 Points over two seasons, probably hit the 200 goal mark and concede under 50, whilst winning 64/76 games, losing only six times. Absolutely outrageous stuff if they do it.
  33. Apr 15, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

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    Can’t really compare some flakey ass Mancini team with Pep’s machine though.

    You were basically relying on Tevez and Balotelli, two players who had been told they’d never play for the club again during the course of the season, and had Joleon Lescott as a key central defender.

    That City side was a bit of a shambles to be honest. This is a proper football team.
  34. Apr 15, 2019

    jontheblue Full Member

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    Funny thing is, whilst it doesn't contradict anything you've said, in many ways, I enjoyed that season more because it was more exciting/unpredictable. Plus all so new to us having not won the league in my lifetime before that

    Against QPR, there was also definitely a feeling of QPR taking their eye off the ball (no pun intended) right at the end once they were safe - who knows what might have otherwise happened

    Going back to the current team, yes right now it looks like we could win all the remaining games but the point still stands - you can't tell when there will be a slip up or against who. We lost at home to Palace this season.
  35. Apr 15, 2019

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Aren't Cardiff relegated? (Or nearly there)
  36. Apr 15, 2019

    Buchan has whacked the hammer to Roswell

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    If they beat Brighton midweek, they have a huge incentive to get a result against Liverpool on Sunday.
  37. Apr 15, 2019

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    They're a bit shit though so I don't expect them to do either.
  38. Apr 15, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

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    Cardiff are terrible but there’s just that nagging feeling that Liverpool will slip up in the run in.

    When was their last convincing performance domestically? Watford in February? I can only think of two PL games since the turn of the year that they’ve been in control of.

    Meanwhile, City continue to win game after game in second gear. Now we’re coming to such a packed part of the season, I think that’s a major advantage for City.
  39. Apr 15, 2019

    KingMinger22 City >>> United. Moaning twat

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    They will probably win all four.
  40. Apr 17, 2019

    Skills Snitch

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    And there it costs him once more