Viv Anderson on Giggsy

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by antohan, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Mar 13, 2019
    #1

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    35,811
    Location:
    Montevideo
    Noticed last week many hadn't seen the Fletcher article on the Arsenal game with the tunnel bust-up.

    It's all part of a cracking series of articles you get regularly on the United app.

    Latest one on Giggsy. Great read, great memories :devil:
  2. Mar 13, 2019
    #2

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    49,219
    The sad thing is that he wasn't even our best young player coming up. Ben Thornley was
  3. Mar 13, 2019
    #3

    Spoony The People's President

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    54,076
    Location:
    Shit on a stick football. The cult of Van Gaal.

    Weirdo.
  4. Mar 13, 2019
    #4

    Moriarty Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,777
    Location:
    Reichenbach Falls
    Supports:
    A wife and a cat.
    Adrian Doherty?
  5. Mar 13, 2019
    #5

    Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær Lutefisk is it!

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    73,703
    Location:
    YCS We Can!
    Supports:
    Moanchester United
    Good read that. Thanks.
  6. Mar 13, 2019
    #6

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    49,219
  7. Mar 13, 2019
    #7

    PeteManic Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,585
    I've read that before somewhere. Viv has been living off that story for years.
  8. Mar 13, 2019
    #8

    Ish Lights on for Luke

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    23,826
    Location:
    Where fans' expectations are too high
    Great read.
  9. Mar 13, 2019
    #9

    Jeppers7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    975
    I used to watch that youth team.....I may not be Eric Harrison but there's no way Thornley was ever going to be better than Giggs, as good as he was Thornley he wouldn't have been in that class of player injury or not. Giggs as a teenager was a generational talent.
  10. Mar 13, 2019
    #10

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    49,214
    Location:
    Aliens are in control of my tagline & location
    Thanks for that, worth a read.
  11. Mar 13, 2019
    #11

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    40,619
    Not exactly unusual for young players not to fulfil their potential though, for various reasons.
  12. Mar 13, 2019
    #12

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    24,040
    This comes out here and there but it's impossible to quantify and to me sounds like it makes a better story to talk of what could have been.
  13. Mar 13, 2019
    #13

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    49,219
    I can't really answer to that. What I can say is that there were many people at the club who thought that Ben was the best of the bunch. Also note that they said so before he suffered that injury, so their judgement wasn't influenced by romanticism or pity.
  14. Mar 13, 2019
    #14

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    49,219
    Injury ruined Ben. According to Rob Swire, the United physiotherapist at the time, Ben suffered the worst knee injury he had seen in 30 years. In terms of character the guy was very hardworking and professional. That's at least what I heard.
  15. Mar 13, 2019
    #15

    Bobski Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    3,026
    I love the part about Giggs's reaction to nutmegging him, how it was just so natural, in the moment and situation. We have seen a lot of wide players come in with stepovers/flip flaps/etc all the flashy tricks that catch the eye, but no understanding of how to really dribble and use feints, body swerves, constantly putting the defender off balance.

    Pretty sad that many of our younger fans don't realize just how talented Giggs was.
  16. Mar 13, 2019
    #16

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    35,811
    Location:
    Montevideo
    I've heard that before, definitely from you as well. My take is he would be talking about the fledglings, Giggs aside. They typically get branded Class of 92 when Giggs had made his first team debut in 1991 (at the other end, Scholes didn't even feature in the 92 Youth Cup side), as opposed to the others which mostly got their debuts two and even three years later.

    You can hardly be referring to someone who was already an integral part of the first team setup when referring to the "best of the bunch" there. He wasn't part of the bunch. In fact, by the time Thornley makes his first team debut Giggs had well over 100 games for United.
  17. Mar 13, 2019
    #17

    Needham Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,852
    Viv Anderson won 2 European cups and played under Brian Clough so he's probably got a few more stories.
  18. Mar 13, 2019
    #18

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    35,811
    Location:
    Montevideo
    Yeah, that's why I shared it, most wouldn't have the faintest idea of the sort of player he was if they are under 30/40.
  19. Mar 13, 2019
    #19

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    24,040
    That makes a lot more sense
  20. Mar 13, 2019
    #20

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    24,040
    Under 30 maybe! Under 40 would certainly be able to remember his early to mid 90s stuff!
  21. Mar 13, 2019
    #21

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    24,040
    I can't believe anyone who hasn't lived in a cave wouldn't realise.

    I mean, most of us have only seen a tiny amount of clips of Charlton, Law and Best, and we haven't missed their level.
    So it'd take some doing to not recognise it for Giggs, in this day of vast archives and huge social media reminders.
  22. Mar 13, 2019
    #22

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    35,811
    Location:
    Montevideo
    It depends on how early you get exposed to football and can discern what makes a great player. It's probably 35 or less.
  23. Mar 13, 2019
    #23

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    35,811
    Location:
    Montevideo
    The point isn't realising he was a great player, what he is getting at is most younger people's views would be warped by the later more cerebral player, or the perma injured not as electric one before reinventing himself.

    Early Giggs was absolutely sensational. Yes, you can see a goal here and there on youtube, but it's simply not the same as the excitement and giddyness of seeing a teenage prospect consistently destroy fullbacks all game long at the highest level.

    It's really not that different to people wondering what may have been with early Ronaldo, except that Giggs managed to leverage other assets to stay at the top of the game for two decades.
  24. Mar 13, 2019
    #24

    Handré1990 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,442
    Location:
    In hibernation
    Don’t know about that. I’m (just) under thirty and I remember well how Giggs would make defenders dizzy. That goal vs Arsenal in 99 epitomizes the player I remember him as the best. He was clever as all hell as well. Remember a couple of early freekicks from him that went in, while keepers were organizing the wall, waiting for Beckham to step up. He scored with both feet, headers, could pass like the best of them, not even mentioning his blinding speed and dribbling skills.
  25. Mar 13, 2019
    #25

    dbryan Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    99
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  26. Mar 13, 2019
    #26

    lsd Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    2,662
    Pretty much everyone at the club at the time says Adrian was the best player they seen and ahead of Giggs,
  27. Mar 13, 2019
    #27

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    35,811
    Location:
    Montevideo
    Yeah, he was a fantastic player either way but we very rarely/briefly got to see the crossover of his ability and the football brain that kept him useful well past that (that Juve game comes to mind).

    Earlier on it was more about sheer instinctive brilliance with end product. In a teenager. Cristiano had us hoping but often frustrated with the latter, Ryan just hit the ground running from Day 1 which is very very rare.

    A mix of injuries and lack of international exposure (Wales, much like NI for Best) has probably landed him in a tier alongside someone like Robben (for a neutral), when he should have been toe to toe with a Garrincha or Jairzinho in the GOAT stakes.

    Here I am hoping all the talk on Greenwood leads to something even remotely as exhilarating :devil:
  28. Mar 14, 2019
    #28

    Handré1990 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,442
    Location:
    In hibernation
    Yeah, I understand. Obviously I don’t remember him from his teenage years, but I do remember being confident that Giggs could always produce some kind of magic, very often on his own, no matter the opponent!

    I’ve been following Greenwood’s development for about a year and a half now, ever since I read about him on here. I never used to watch the youth teams, but I’ve seen about 15 games since then. I get MUTV with my football subscription, and I must say I’ve been blown away. Trying very hard to keep my expectations to a minimum though, because we never really can tell if it will translate into performances for the first team. I do agree with @SteveW though, he looks like the complete package already, with some extreme skills like his finishing, and the ability to find a way to finish in every situation (within reason).
  29. Mar 14, 2019
    #29

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    844
    Location:
    England
    Same, do you remember Giggsy's 2nd goal against Juventus in Turin 02/03? ran through the whole team and scored on his weak foot past Buffon, the look on his face was hilarious. I remember fans and media claiming he was finished at the time, how ridiculous, but what a way to shut everyone up. His celebration was simply just pointing to his name on the back on his shirt! I Loved it!
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  30. Mar 14, 2019
    #30

    Handré1990 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,442
    Location:
    In hibernation
    I do:D I don’t remember the part about him being finished, though, but it wasn’t such a globalized world back then, so I got my football news from Norwegian papers and commentators. The latter called it vintage Giggs, the Welsh magician. He really was special.
  31. Mar 14, 2019
    #31

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    13,752
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
  32. Mar 14, 2019
    #32

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    4,703
    Location:
    Back of Beyond
    Adrian at 16 was ahead of Ryan, he often travelled with the first team as the extra player in case of injury well before Ryan made his debut.
  33. Mar 14, 2019
    #33

    reelworld Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2001
    Messages:
    7,455
    Location:
    Mexico City, Mexico
    He's not even in full speed in 99. He wrecked his hamstring in 97-98 season and we lost the league as a result. He was never ran full speed again after that. 92-97 Giggs was a fecking sight to behold
  34. Mar 15, 2019
    #34

    NinjaZombie Punched the air when Liverpool beat City

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,212
    Location:
    Leather jacket popped like Cantona
    Ben Thornley. :(

    It's a shame what happened to him.
  35. Mar 15, 2019
    #35

    Handré1990 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,442
    Location:
    In hibernation
    That I do remember. My little league coach was an Arsenal fan and was giving me a lot of shit. I started watching every game that season (97/98). Got the 96/97 season review on vhs «Champions again!», Ole’s first and Cantona’s last.
  36. Mar 15, 2019
    #36

    Thisistheone Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,349
    Yeah, I've always said that young Giggs was the best Giggs. The early to mid 90s Giggs was the most exciting player I'd ever seen for us until Ronaldo came along.
  37. Mar 15, 2019
    #37

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    49,219
    No one knows how Ben Thornley would have developed. The same can be said about Duncan Edwards though whose considered as one of the best youths England had ever developed despite dying at age 21. Sure, you would be correct in saying that Edwards was more of a proven talent then Ben Thornley was since he played far more games at first team level then he did. Having said that, we all know that young players are unpredictable. OShea for example had a magnificent first season with us whom he was never able to replicate ever again. Other players had a great start of career but then fizzled out along the way. Panucci and Coco for example were considered talent wise true heirs of Paulo Maldini, Philip Neville was considered a better talent to his own brother etc.

    So under such circumstances we can only rely on what professionals who were very close to the guy say especially those who commented about Ben prior to his injury (ie to avoid sentimentalism bias which is common to slip in following such horrific injury). Well the late Eric Harrison considered Ben not only as a model professional (which would reduce off the pitch issues which could have ruined his career to the minimum) but as the crown jewel of our youth academy.

    I apologise for repeating this story previously. However the class of 92 is a key stone to our success as much as the Busby Babes were. To think that we might have lost the best of the crop again in such terrible circumstances saddens me without end. Similarly to the Busby babes that had an impact not only on himself and United (Giggs hamstrings used to hit us hard. In fact we only won the CL when we finally brought a good cover for the Welsh) but the English national team as well. Ben was a left winger a position that the golden generation lacked big time. Someone at par (or even better) then Giggs could have taken that team to a whole new level.
  38. Mar 15, 2019
    #38

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    49,219
    When on form young Ryan Giggs was unstoppable. Juventus had one of the toughest defences in the world and Lippi used to triple mark him by adding a defensive winger as well and yet, they couldn't stop Giggs running the show. I remember one game in particular. Prior to the game SAF said that Giggs was injured only to field him up just the same. The Welsh wizard destroyed them only for Lippi to come out saying (sacrastically) that thank god Giggs was ill else they might not have bothered playing in the first place.

    Unfortunately his hamstring kind of hurt his career.
  39. Mar 15, 2019
    #39

    Thisistheone Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,349
    Great memories.

    We were lucky to have a player like that
  40. Mar 16, 2019
    #40

    page302 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Someone has mentioned this above but i distinctly remember those days when the media and our very own fans were on his back. I don't remember the exact period, but i'd guess at around 97-00. He was at times as frustrating to watch as he was mesmerising. Even in the 98/99 season, he never felt like an automatic starter for Fergie - you just have to look at the Arsenal game where he came off the bench (at least, i can't remember him being injured). If i remember correctly, there were all sorts of rumours about him being sold and i'm sure Juventus were mentioned albeit they always seemed to be in for our best players in the late 90's.

    For me there were two parts to Giggs' career. There was the debut to the mid 90's and then the part where he reinvented himself (2002 onwards). The bit in the middle is a bit meh. Testament to the player he was though, that he could change his game so dramatically and still be one of the best players in the league. Very few attacking players have managed it so successfully.

    I also have very fond memories of Ryan Giggs' soccer skills which was on, on a saturday morning right after footy training and before football focus.