Was he really 'hard' or just dirty?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Needham, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. Apr 14, 2019
    #81

    SER19 Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    7,238
    I’m going to go ahead and continue to give the average poster the respect and benefit of the doubt that they could decode my post without a headache. You can redress your post now but you quite blatantly insinuated stupidity on my part. Your advice about how I may or may not speak away from the forum is utterly irrelevant. It has no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.

    Finally your reply to limerickcitykid has taken you even further from the point of the thread, to the point of raising the question about why you posted here at all.
  2. Apr 14, 2019
    #82

    P-Ro Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    912
    Location:
    Salford
    Supports:
    Chelsea and AFC Wimbledon
    Does this response have any bearing on the topic in hand? Your subsequent responses have been to insult me and then to defend your reputation. I'm sorry for insinuating stupidity, next time I won't.
  3. Apr 14, 2019
    #83

    SER19 Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    7,238
    I'm commenting directly on the direction you took the conversation. He responded to your initial digression with a fair point about size which you then took even further. The point stands that you are applying hypothetical scenarios to a post about what makes a player 'hard' within the game. Any queries to that point you can revert to my initial post. The one that bothered you so much
  4. Apr 14, 2019
    #84

    Port Vale Devil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    426
    Supports:
    Port Vale

  5. Apr 14, 2019
    #85

    Bestietom Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    3,431
    Location:
    Ireland
    Good punch, but for a so called boxer he walked straight into it.
  6. Apr 14, 2019
    #86

    Moriarty Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,891
    Location:
    Reichenbach Falls
    Supports:
    A wife and a cat.
    If we did, we'd have a 500 page thread.
  7. Apr 14, 2019
    #87

    BaseFishing New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    Messages:
    304
    Scholesy wasn't particularly hard but he was a bit dirty.
  8. Apr 14, 2019
    #88

    T00lsh3d Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,491
    Weren’t they all on the booze when this happened? If so, can’t really critique the quality
  9. Apr 14, 2019
    #89

    lysglimt Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,024
    Considering that Roy Keane was a very good amateur boxer - he probably would have won most fights.
  10. Apr 14, 2019
    #90

    lysglimt Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,024
    Yeah - he was one of the Worst. Anyone remember a Birmingham-fullback named Mark Dennis ? He was a lunatic...
  11. Apr 14, 2019
    #91

    JSArsenal Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,402
    Not a single mention of an Arsenal player?

    Vieira, Keown Adams, Bould and Parlour were all hard. Bergkamp could mix it up at times as well.
  12. Apr 14, 2019
    #92

    montpelier Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    9,730
    Peter Storey
  13. Apr 14, 2019
    #93

    Moriarty Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,891
    Location:
    Reichenbach Falls
    Supports:
    A wife and a cat.
    Indeed they could but the stand-out for me has to be Peter Storey. Frank McClintock was pretty useful too and Terry Neill. Again, all tough guys but damned good players. John Radford always gave as good as he got and Charlie George wasn't afraid to go in where it hurt. That 1971 side was a very good team.
  14. Apr 14, 2019
    #94

    Art Vandelay Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    3,964
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Parlour? I remember him skulking around the background of shoving matches trying to get cheeky digs in here and there. Bit sneaky.

    Lucas Neil was a bit dirty. Carragher was another that was dirty without being a hard man.
  15. Apr 14, 2019
    #95

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    20,756
    Well he was a dirty bastard! Got done for smuggling porn, dirty fecker!
  16. Apr 14, 2019
    #96

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    20,756
    If we're looking for dirty,hard men you'd have to go lower into the divisions. Lots of tougher guys, you'd walk across the road to avoid
  17. Apr 14, 2019
    #97

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    4,797
    Location:
    Back of Beyond
    Terry Hurlock aka Terry Warlock was a nasty bugger, Graeme Souness signed him for Rangers from Millwall to add a bit of steel to a team not short of players happy to leave a foot in.
  18. Apr 14, 2019
    #98

    Moriarty Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,891
    Location:
    Reichenbach Falls
    Supports:
    A wife and a cat.
    Ran a knocking shop too, and got done for counterfeiting gold coins. Bit of a lad he was.
  19. Apr 14, 2019
    #99

    Moriarty Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,891
    Location:
    Reichenbach Falls
    Supports:
    A wife and a cat.
    Kenny Burns at Brum and Forest was another one. Cloughie liked to have a couple of hard men around as long as they could play. Colin Todd (who we should have signed) and Roy McFarland at Derby spring to mind and that bald Welshman who played for Derby and Forest whose name escapes me. I remember him whacking Willie Morgan so hard the entire Stretford End winced.

    Edit: Terry Hennessey
  20. Apr 14, 2019

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    20,756
    Brilliant!:lol:

    Ripe for character in a comedy/drama
  21. Apr 14, 2019

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    20,756
    Burns had a fight in a car park once against some 'fans' who thought they could have a go. Only one winner!

    Ron 'chopper' Harris could be a nasty bastard. Deliberately broke a kid's hand on the pitch by stamping on it.:lol:

    Guy I worked with told me that Harris slapped Micky Droy really hard in the office once for talking back to him. Droy was about 6fft 5!
  22. Apr 14, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    4,177
    Eh?
  23. Apr 14, 2019

    crossy1686 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,259
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Isn't there a story where Robbie Keane knocked out Edgar Davids after training when they were both at Spurs? apparently Keane was a bare knuckle boxer back in Ireland.
  24. Apr 14, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    4,177
    My idea of hard is more so not letting any thugs physically bully you and affect your game. Bravery, especially young lads, who older players would look to intimidate and bully, not shying away and keep asking for the ball. Any moron can step onto a pitch and thrown themselves into challenges or scrape someone's Achilles.
  25. Apr 14, 2019

    Wolf8312 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    34
    Just interested to know how people can truly determine if a player was genuinely hard (a good fighter) or just an aggressive or dirty player on the pitch.

    Okay Duncan ferguson is a bit of a given as he beats up Burglars for breakfast, but even in his case as I, and most fans have never seen him fight (that head butt didn't seem to make much contact) how do people know for sure either way? I guess it just filters down from the players themselves...

    In regards to Roy Keane, boxer or not, I think most people would find him pretty intimidating, but he also strikes me as the kind of person of whom there's probably a paradox to his nature, in that what he's truly afraid of, is backing down, or showing any weakness in front of others.

    Kind of a Tony Soprano, type A mentality, which you can respect from afar, in the context of sport, but at the same time know up close he would probably not be enjoyable company.

    God how united miss a guy like that now though!
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2019
  26. Apr 14, 2019

    Eleven-Eighteen Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2015
    Messages:
    439
    Location:
    20legend
    Yeah yuh
  27. Apr 15, 2019

    Gio ★★★★★★★★

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    16,057
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Supports:
    Rangers
    Great shout. He was a walking yellow card - used to rack up about 15 a season in an era when you had to basically maim someone to get a booking.
  28. Apr 15, 2019

    sully07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,066
    Location:
    Limbo
    My memory isn't the best but I used to go and watch Brentford in my teens when I couldn't afford to go up to see Utd and they had Hurlock and Kammy in midfield with an old Ron 'Chopper' Harris at fullback. I am sure they were all in the same team for one season and often ended up with 10 men.
  29. Apr 15, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    4,797
    Location:
    Back of Beyond
    I know he liked an Englishman, there were 9 in the squad the season Hurlock signed but it seemed such a weird transfer at the time, didn't Souness bring him in as a direct replacement for that other hatchet man Ray Wilkins? :lol:

    If true it probably explains why nobody would play them in the five-a-side league that season ;)
  30. Apr 15, 2019

    Gio ★★★★★★★★

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    16,057
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Supports:
    Rangers
    Aye. As a young kid at the time I just didn't understand why we'd bought this guy to go around fouling people in midfield all game long. But Souness - as one himself - was always big on midfield enforcers and hard men in general to give a platform for the more skillful players to shine. With UEFA's three foreigner rule coming in, we had to get rid of a load of Englishmen and I think he was moved on for Stuart McCall.
  31. Apr 15, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    4,797
    Location:
    Back of Beyond
    I can't recall how much he'd played himself the previous seasons(if at all), but Souness retired as a player the season he signed Hurlock, and on the UEFA ruling i'm not sure he cared because it's almost certain he knew he was going to Liverpool at the end of the season, if not sooner
  32. Apr 15, 2019

    Gio ★★★★★★★★

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    16,057
    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    Supports:
    Rangers
    Yeah I think it was Smith who moved him on, along with Woods, Steven, Walters, Spackman.
  33. Apr 15, 2019

    MemphisDepay Full Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    Shinji Okazaki's house
    Supports:
    Rangers and Celtic
    Big Troy Boy is a real hard man
  34. Apr 16, 2019

    simplyared Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    2,181
    Location:
    somewhere ouside the UK
    You cannot have been around when he was playing for Arsenal. You've mentioned the club and named some of it's so called hard men, but you've missed the biggest butcher of them all: Peter Storey. Nasty piece of work he was! To this day never seen anyone as bad as he was.