Watching Lingard play live has changed my mind on him

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by shamans, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Dec 4, 2017
    #41

    Brightonian Full Member

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    There's something to that. Although it's weird to consider the comparison when you're in the inexplicable dislike camp with one of them and not the other.
  2. Dec 4, 2017
    #42

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    I knew there was something about him when LVG started him in his first game in charge. He got quite a bad injury in that game. I have always said that he excels against sides that are a bit more open like Watford and Arsenal which is why he should start against City.
  3. Dec 4, 2017
    #43

    DannyCAFC Full Member

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    I know he was good in the Championship, saw him play a bit and have a few mates who are Brighton fans who said he was different gravy for them, but there’s a big step up from the Championship to the Premiership and another huge step up to top 4 level, that’s why.

    As mentioned, it was silly and probably stemmed from the ridiculous ‘you have to have broken in to the first team by 20/21’ mentality that I used to have, which Harry Kane pretty much single-handedly you shit all over.
  4. Dec 4, 2017
    #44

    Ekeke Full Member

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    The thing is anyone who watched on tv could see he's been very good the past 2 games
  5. Dec 4, 2017
    #45

    shamans 1 set of sheets, optimistic about chances of sex

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    This thread is the exact opposite...
  6. Dec 4, 2017
    #46

    RU Devil Full Member

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    In comparison to Mhki, he definitely has it over him in workrate & speed, but when Mhki is on, he has the better vision & touch. Mhki's problem is that Mou has set up the team over the last 2 months to be more defensive-oriented, which negates a lot of what Mhki needs. Whereas Mhki looks lost when constantly defending, Lingard seems more at ease with it. Jesse knows he 'has' to put in a shift to get PT, but I'm not sure Mhki knows how to when the team is defending a majority of the time. By the time the team gets the ball, Mhki seemed a bit jaded to find the proper spots and starts snatching at opportunities instead of just letting them develop. Lingard's Energizer Bunny role doesn't dictate him needing to find the right pass when attacking, but just finding the right place, which he does really well TBF.

    Now part of this is due to Pogba being out so long and a bit of over-reliance on Mhki to pick the lock, while Lingard has had the advantage over the last few games of Pogba making the space for him. Given a run with Pogba, I'm sure Mhki will get back on form, but you definitely have to ride Lingard for now.
  7. Dec 4, 2017
    #47

    groovyalbert Full Member

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    I'm a fan of Lingard's and think he's a good squad player to have - his performance on Saturday was probably the best he's had for us, so to totally change your opinion of him based purely off that might be somewhat premature. That said, I hope those who slate him on here remember the form he's show lately when he next has a bad game.
  8. Dec 4, 2017
    #48

    TwoSheds More sheds than you, probably

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    Starting to think he should be England's no.10 at the Euros if Alli doesn't find any form. Certainly at least looks our second best option there, in what is a pool of players with a real lack of midfield talent.

    It's either that or just play 442 for me.
  9. Dec 4, 2017
    #49

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

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    I've never minded him as a squad player. The problem, like with a fair few over the past couple of years, is he doesn't turn it on anywhere near regularly enough. Hopefully he finds a good run of form now because we definitely need it. I have my doubts as to whether he'll be good enough consistently to be more than a squad player after this season though.
    Happy for him with his performances in the last 2 and there was another very good one not that long back (CL was it?).
  10. Dec 4, 2017
    #50

    Jaybomb Banned

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    He’s Mourinho’s new Willian. And right now he deserves to be starting.
  11. Dec 4, 2017
    #51

    Rozay Not good at posting fixture lists

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    I am a fan of his, to a degree, in that I think he’s a perfect squad option - but all this that you have described is not really what makes a very good attacking player per se.

    For you to say you didn’t think he was good enough to be a squad player, but having seen him live you observed how much he runs around, is odd.

    Jesse has great movement, but he is also a great carrier of the ball and link player. When he’s in the mood, he’s also a good finisher, but not consistent enough with it. He rarely scores an ordinary goal.
  12. Dec 4, 2017
    #52

    Mr Smith Full Member

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    This is exactly why I don't get the criticism of Lingard. It would be different if he played every game and was one of the first names on the teamsheet. But as a utility player who can provide specific qualities in games that suit him and who lives and breathes the club, he's invaluable. It's like some people are offended by his mere presence in the squad.
  13. Dec 4, 2017
    #53

    el3mel Full Member

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    He deserves credit. He has put a performance in the last 2 games our supposed "seniors" like Mikhi and Mata could dream of in their current state.
  14. Dec 4, 2017
    #54

    MJJ Full Member City Lover

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  15. Dec 4, 2017
    #55

    lex talionis Full Member

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    Lingard has answered critics with his recent performances, but it always comes back to whether he can put in this kind of performance week after week. If you had asked a year ago whether he could, I'd have said no. Now, I think he can.

    Let's see if he can prove the skeptics wrong. If he puts in a similar performance against City, whose defenders are no better IMHO than Arsenal's, he'll have proven the skeptics wrong.
  16. Dec 4, 2017
    #56

    wolvored Full Member

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    Play him against City in the same position and see if he can get amongst them as well. If we can get another early goal or two we could win it, as the free scoring City have slowed down.
  17. Dec 5, 2017
    #57

    Green_Red Full Member

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    Glad people are finally realising his worth
  18. Dec 5, 2017
    #58

    reelworld Full Member

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    Not necessarily about Lingard, but another thing that I noticed when I see the game live is that, how quick is these players. Not just about when they ran, but their touch, their decision making, it all happened in quarter of seconds.
  19. Dec 5, 2017
    #59

    BigTimeCharlie New Member

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    I've always claimed he is a very intelligent footballer and puts in a shift. He is a perfect squad player that you throw in as a starter now and then and due to his mentality, he usually performs.

    If he had more technical ability he would be very very good. His finishing seems spot on at the minute and whilst he is in form I would start him, he has a touch of park ji sung about him.
  20. Dec 5, 2017
    #60

    Lentwood Full Member

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    I've always said that Lingard's problem isn't his brain or his endeavour it's his execution. He is literally the opposite of most footballers, limited talent but great footballing brain
  21. Dec 5, 2017
    #61

    T A New Member

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    Bro, it's Bezold Effect. Lingard's value was affected by surrounding context, making you misjudge him. Maybe it was your first live match at the stadium, maybe it was a big game against a big old rival, or maybe our perfomance was so good that getting your andrenaline flowing all over the game. Then by a coincedence, someluckyhow it was the best day of Lingard's career. It was just the one and only game thing bro, stay with us. Come back to the bright side, do not lose your way
  22. Dec 5, 2017
    #62

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    Prefer him or Lallana to Alli simply because they look after the ball and have better movement.

    Alli will get the nod though.
  23. Dec 5, 2017
    #63

    Kapardin Full Member

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    He's playing very well no doubt, and this is perhaps his best position, but let's see if he is consistent. Its' only been 2 games.
  24. Dec 5, 2017
    #64

    arnie_ni New Member

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    I'll say it again. He's one of the smartest players with the best off the ball movement that finds spaces in the defense in the league. He just doesn't have top level end product. Everything prior to that is top level.

    He's one of those players that helps and makes other players better simply by being on the pitch.

    He just misplaces too many passes and misses pretty clear cut chances to be considered the must have starter in the 10 role
  25. Dec 5, 2017
    #65

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Bit of a weird thread really, everybody knows what Lingard's strengths are.

    The fact is on the ball his finishing / final pass has let him down massively in the recent years, but these 2 last 2 games have shown he does have it, he just needs to find it more often.

    It seems fairly obvious that his skill set struggles when pinned out wide, he isn't tricky enough to consistently beat a man 1v1, but let him use his movement/stamina to "ghost" into positions and he will get into goal scoring chances.

    Whether he can keep this up without Martial/Lukaku distracting the defence is another thing, let's hope he can keep this up.
  26. Dec 5, 2017
    #66

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

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    This is pretty much admitting that you make judgments on players based on watching TV. I suppose many here are guilty of that. I would add that going to live games at any professional level will give you a greater insight into how difficult it is at the highest level
  27. Dec 5, 2017
    #67

    Greck Full Member

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    Have always rated his skillset. Presently some of our talents only want to play like stars when they have the ball. We need role players like this around our world class players. Minimise talent duplicity where several players are trying to be the fulcrum of every attack.

    So far we've deployed him in some lineups that struggle with creativity and his limitations have been magnified.
  28. Dec 5, 2017
    #68

    Oldyella Full Member

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    Very true. I learnt my lesson with Fletcher and Fergie.
  29. Dec 5, 2017
    #69

    Lawman Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    Think Lingard played very well versus Arsenal and scored an important goal versus Watford but after seeing him live for two/three seasons now it’s going to take a lot more than an excellent performance to sway me. I’m hoping it’s no false dawn and he is going to kick on but I’ll not hold my breath but instead secretly pray he does.
  30. Dec 5, 2017
    #70

    Lawman Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    I’m looking for the rhyming slang as Muller is a million times better
  31. Dec 5, 2017
    #71

    JoaquinJoaquin Full Member

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    That's why i'm reserving judgments on him until he can do it for a few more games at least. He has been very good the last two games. If he gets a good game in against City i'll be over the moon.
  32. Dec 5, 2017
    #72

    lysglimt Full Member

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    The point is that Rashford isn't a natural goalscorer - and I doubt he ever will be. He will always score goals - he might even score quite a few simply because of his other strengths. He strikes the ball better than most in our team, his pace is insane and he is very good on the ball - but he doesn't "smell" goals.

    I like Rashford - but he lacks that ability to be where the ball ends up. And that is why I think that Rashford would have reacted too late to be in a position where Pogba would have found him on the 3rd goal.
  33. Dec 5, 2017
    #73

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

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    He's got a great chance to really make that position his,Mikhitaryans woefully out of form and Jose doesn't trust Mata in that role,so it's a great opportunity for Jesse to really seal his place in the 11....
  34. Dec 5, 2017
    #74

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    I think we're parsing words here. Natural goal scorer is completely subjective. Rashford will be a very good player going forward.
  35. Dec 5, 2017
    #75

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    Based on what? Literally over half of his goals I just showed you have been him "smelling" goals and being in the right area in the box. It was well played by Lingard but lets not act like is was genius movement, the box was wide open and the defending was comically lazy at best. More comical than thinking Rashford is incapable of a simple drop off.
  36. Dec 5, 2017
    #76

    buchansleftleg Full Member

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    Yes seeing the match you can see a player move that split second before others that gains them that yard of space.

    Its similar to the effect commentary has. I remember watching a champs league match at local pub. It was heaving and the only space left was in beer garden, but that had sound turned down.

    Outside we all commented on how Hargreaves was running things, controlling the game. Indoors they were just going on about Rooney, usual suspects.

    Often players like this get undervalued because they are not a story.
  37. Dec 5, 2017
    #77

    lysglimt Full Member

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    Yes - but I will be surprised if he gets close to 20 goals in a season
  38. Dec 5, 2017
    #78

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    He will easily get 20 at some point, infact he could very well approach 20 this year as a bit part player.
  39. Dec 5, 2017
    #79

    lysglimt Full Member

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    Well - we don't agree - that is fine. I think Rashford is a brilliant play, but I think he will be more of a provider than a finished - even if I would love to be wrong. But to answer you :

    In his last 47 League games - he has scored 8 goals. One of them where he was hit in the head by Pogba - a ball which would have gone in anyway.
    So if I accept your argument, that half of these goals were due to him "smelling" them - that is about 4 goals in 47 League matches. My Point being - he doesn't get into dangerous positions often enough. Yes he will score goals...because he will shoot brilliant, run past defenders and even run behind defenders....but he will rarely get those tap-ins.

    I however doubt we will agree - so we will just have to wait 4-5 years and see who is right.
  40. Dec 5, 2017
    #80

    lysglimt Full Member

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    In the League ?