We can't win the league every year

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Plechazunga, May 7, 2012.

  1. May 7, 2012
    #1

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

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    Looking at the forum, I'm understandably seeing a lot of questions about passion, character, tactics, personnel. But the truth is we can't always win it.

    Obviously it's frustrating that it was in our hands and we blew it. But if we'd won it this year, it would have been what, our fifth in six years? That's just ridiculous.

    As it is we've done phenomenally well to be in touch till the last game of the season, maybe even finish on equal points, all without our best defender, with woeful injuries and against a club with vastly greater resources.

    We can talk about Wigan and Everton, but we had no right to be where we were, we went on an incredible run, including Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea away and Liverpool at home, to reel them in. All the qualities we're bemoaning were there to be seen. It just wasn't to be...sometimes it isn't.
  2. May 7, 2012
    #2

    WR RedCafe FIFA League Season 1 Winner

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    Hey, come on now, it's not over yet!

    Although it will be next week
  3. May 7, 2012
    #3

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

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    It's mental that we've come as far as we have without Vidic. Really, he's our best player if we are to define that in terms of where a player ranks in their position amongst their contemporaries. That's before you start talking about the myriads of reccuring injuries we've had to many others and all.

    Having a consistent line up is probably the most important aspect of a title challenge, and we've not had anything close to that this season. Looking at the following:



    --------------------De Gea-------------------
    Rafael-------Ferdinand-------Vidic------Evra---
    Valencia-----Carrick-------Scholes-----Nani----
    ------------------Rooney------------------
    ----------------------Welbeck-------------


    ...we've not even been capable of playing that once, nevermind for a run of games.
  4. May 7, 2012
    #4

    LLMU Full Member

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    Down to the wire. Still proud of this team for what they have achieve in the league.
  5. May 7, 2012
    #5

    Relevated Moral Guide

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    On the odd occasion when we don't win the league it is enjoyable chasing the league in a weird sort of way. Every time we don't finish the season in first position suddenly everyone starts doubting us, they think they have the right to poke fun at us and it is highly amusing due to the fact that at the end of the season we manage to regain our title. This mostly comes from Chelsea/Liverpool fans but city fans will start to do this now.

    The worst part is that Man City will consider themselves a very big club but that isn't the truth is it? They aren't a big club, they're a rich club and there is a massive difference. I am going to have a very fun time laughing at them next season when we get our title back in the mean time from now untill next week we are the champions and it feels damn good but it will feel even better if they lose points next week and we win or when we regain OUR title next season.

    Until then Mancini can keep the title glistening because we'll be back in may to take it away.
  6. May 7, 2012
    #6

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    We can't win the league every year but we should have won it this year. We all know it, that and the fact that City take it from us is one of the biggest reasons for being a frustrated United fan. I mean how can it be any worse really when you finish 2nd? We had the lead, a very good lead with little left to go. Lose points very stupidly. Lose both league games to City. Liverpool knock us out of the cup. Horrible European campaign. It's very easy to get lost and look at the glass half empty like that.

    The positives are that we managed a good league campaign despite having to replace one of the worlds best keeper, being without one of the worlds best center back and using youth the most we've done since the fledglings really. On par with the most expensive squad ever in the Premier League (only 2nd to Real if they aren't in fact more expensive even).

    The next season looks promising. We will definitely have a stronger squad no matter what SAF does in the transfer market because Vidic will be back and Welbeck, Cleverly, Jones, Smalling and Rafael will be a season older. City won't be any bigger like that. Best case scenario for them is if their team keeps as injury free as they were this season. We can't possibly get any worse in that aspect.

    So when we reminisce about this season there won't be many fond memories but I'm positive that the next season can make up for that. This won't be a long slump.
  7. May 7, 2012
    #7

    Agent Red Full Member

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    This was much how I felt today. I don't have the slightest hope that QPR are going to get something at the Etihad, so to avoid dragging out the crushing disappointment I've been telling myself it's over since we lost the derby.

    I've been trying to think about whether this hurts more than other recent losses, mainly to Chelsea, and I'm not sure that it does for me. It being City does add the extra element, but that's slightly offset by the manner in which they've done it and the way their players are slightly disassociated from the traditional City and their fans in my mind.

    The bottling aspect is what I've found most painful, but then given that at one stage the likeliest alternative to that was City running away with it, we've done very well to take it to the final day.

    I do have some concerns about the spirit and quality of the current squad. With some of the results and performances we've had this season it's natural to compare that to the old United standard of 'never say die' and feel some concern there. But that winning streak we went on to get into this position, that does show that the seeds are there, and having a leader like Vidic back next season will be useful in the development of that United mentality amongst the younger players.

    It's hard to gauge how we're set for the future with so many young players who are yet to reach their peak. But there's a lot of promise there, and if even a few come off then that will be a great building block for future success. Having a spine of academy players has always served us well during our triumphs over the past 20 years.

    City aren't going away unfortunately, and FFP doesn't seem to be inspiring hope in many, but we always knew they were going to win it sooner or later, and the main thing is that we've still got so many things to be proud of at United, and we'll be back challenging next season.
  8. May 7, 2012
    #8

    Sir Matt Full Member

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    We bottled it. That's why it's most irritating. We're fecking 8 points up and then lose to Wigan, draw with Everton, and lose to City. We were 4-2 up on Everton. The team blew it at the vital moment.
  9. May 7, 2012
    #9

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    Titles shouldn't be thrown away so lightly as if they're nothing. You put yourself in a position like this - you go on and finish the job.
    Past success has nothing to do with any of this. It's not about how we should be thankful for what we've got either.

    Team has shown weakness I never thought I'd see in a Fergie team. Hope he sorts it out.
  10. May 7, 2012
    #10

    Antisocial Full Member

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    I'm just glad we got to the magic 19 before Mansour's grip on the league reached this winning point - even if we struggle to add to it with a 20th title soon then it'll still take a long while and a lot more spending consistently over that while until that record is threatened by either Roman or Mansour.
  11. May 7, 2012
    #11

    Liam147 On Probation

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    All very true. The fact is people are aware of those things but ignore them because it's City who've won it. And understandably so. It hurts so much more losing to them than Chelsea, or even Arsenal. The fact you've been beaten by a team using no skill at all, just buying the best players because a vastly wealthy man bought your club, while ours is rendered helpless, is what really hurts the most.
  12. May 7, 2012
    #12

    Baxter Full Member

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    No skill at all? Bit too far in my opinion.
  13. May 7, 2012
    #13

    Liam147 On Probation

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    I'm not saying the team has no skill if that's what you're getting at. I'm saying it took the club no skill. Whereas Arsenal, United and Liverpool have spent years and decades building their clubs to their current level, City would be no more than a midtable team without a wealthy foreign investor. I don't begrudge Chelsea it so much as they were a good team before Abramovich, in the Champions League. City were making the Intertoto Cup via the fair play league.
  14. May 7, 2012
    #14

    RK Full Member

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    We didn't bottle it, we were just poor when it mattered. It wasn't a case of not holding our nerve, more a combination of complacency and poorly timed mistakes that can happen any time.
  15. May 7, 2012
    #15

    Red Dreams Full Member

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    the one result I will always look back with regret is the Everton match.

    Its unforgivable. My hope is those players who contributed to it will use that lesson every day they pull on the shirt and remember never again to let themselves down, never let the club and the supporters down again.
  16. May 7, 2012
    #16

    gbgary Full Member

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    you forgot poor tactical decisions too. that's bottling it in my book. everyone involved takes some blame. United can't win every year that's true...but to basically give it away...people will remember this one for a while.
  17. May 7, 2012
    #17

    Maciek Arrogant prick who is best ignored

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    Good post, Plech. Some people can't understand it.

    The worst thing is that everyone else will quickly forget United finishing so close and people will remember City 2011-12 as a good and offensive team that deserved to win the league more than anyone else.

    But we all, United fans, will remember our 8-point lead wasted against Wigan, Everton and City, injuries, we're going to think about some games in the first half of the season as well, there will be a lot of what ifs. Not only the last month, but Blackburn at home, Newcastle away, the penalty kick at home against Newcastle. We won't be able to forget about those three goals scored by City in injury time in that famous 1-6 even more, because we would have been only -2 on goal difference today if it had ended at 1-3.

    We're going to regret it every day of this summer and sometimes during the next season.
  18. May 7, 2012
    #18

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    Success isn't everything. I don't go into every season expecting us to win the title. Winning and losing is a part of sport. But losing an 8 point lead with just a few games to go is inexcusable. I wouldn't have really minded if we weren't good enough and couldn't catch up with city or werent good enough and lost after leading even. Those are all things that generally do happen. But I do mind if were sitting 8 points ahead and can't get the job done in games against everton and wigan and make selection howlers against City.
  19. May 7, 2012
    #19

    Sir Matt Full Member

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    That's bottling it.
  20. May 7, 2012
    #20

    Neutral BTV

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    Why not? :sulk:
  21. May 7, 2012
    #21

    kiristao Full Member

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    Was just about to post something similar.

    If we had always been 2nd best or just about on top then it wouldnt have been so disappointing.

    The fact that we had one hand on the title and blew it, specially the way we did against Everton is hard to take. Even after that we had the chance to redeem ourselves with a result at City but no one seemed to care much. The team was just going through the motions.
  22. May 7, 2012
    #22

    Raoul Administrator

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    We've underachieved in the cups but finishing with 89 league points is nothing to scoff at, especially when you consider Vidic has been out nearly all year.
  23. May 7, 2012
    #23

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    That's absolute bollocks. We just weren't good enough on the night, which wasn't particularly surprising considering we were playing away to the team with the best home league record in Europe.
  24. May 7, 2012
    #24

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    The Everton collapse sticks out above everything else by a country mile.

    I still struggle to believe it even now. We got a really big warning as well just before they scored their third. Jelavic I think it was who hit the side netting from 10 yards out and we did feck all in response. FFS.
  25. May 7, 2012
    #25

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    We didn't go through the motions against city. Firstly, we picked an average team. Secondly, we tend to struggle against teams that deny us space and move the ball around well. If we don't improve our ball retention it will keep happening again and again and no amount of chest pumping show of desire and passion will change that. We really need to have a better plan than resorting to panic passes in those types of games. Teams expect it.
  26. May 7, 2012
    #26

    devilish Full Member

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    I am actually surprised that we were able to go toe to toe with Shitty. We suffered from a wave of injuries, we refused to address CM and against Shitty our midfield was mainly consisted of a 36 yr old, a 38 yr old and an average winger.
  27. May 7, 2012
    #27

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    Except that Fergie was obviously relying on Anderson, Cleverley and Fletcher to contribute vastly more than they've been able to. But don't let facts get in the way of another immature dig.

    Nice EDIT btw.
  28. May 7, 2012
    #28

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    What team would you have picked against City?
  29. May 7, 2012
    #29

    devilish Full Member

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    I arranged that post because I felt it was a bit unfair anyway. Ando and Cleverly injury track record speaks for itself and we knew that Fletch was suffering from a serious career threatening injury. If you rely on players in such conditions then you're over optimistic at best.

    SAF was great in leading the side throughout this season and in a certain way we were unlucky due to injuries (you dont expect the likes of Vidic to vanish in the treatment room). However our reluctance in not strengthening CM went on to bite our arse.
  30. May 7, 2012
    #30

    devilish Full Member

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    Valencia should have played. Giggs and Scholes should never play together again + Park should have never played.
  31. May 7, 2012
    #31

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    Well we're going to have to hope that those injury and health problems clear up because it's not realistic to expect us to start next season with something like eight central midfielders in the squad.
  32. May 7, 2012
    #32

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    That doesn't answer the question.
  33. May 7, 2012
    #33

    devilish Full Member

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    I think that SAF will have to make some tough decisions during this summer and that some players will leave the club to give space to new ones. If we did that last summer we would have probably retained the league title.
  34. May 7, 2012
    #34

    devilish Full Member

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    ---------------De Gea--------------------

    Rafael-------Smalling----Rio---------Evra

    -------------Jones-----Carrick--------------

    Valencia----------Scholes---------------Young

    -----------------Rooney------------------------
  35. May 7, 2012
    #35

    iAm20Legend Full Member

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    Spot on, we've done really well over the past five years, other teams would kill for it.
    We've gone down to the wire against a club whose owners have invested a billion, and signed star players without limits almost like in a game-world, and we've done it without our captain and best defender. And the fat lady ain't sung yet.
    But we threw it away, that can't be denied. And it hurts because its City. But surely SAF will do something now, and I hope to God the Glazers loosen the purse strings.
  36. May 7, 2012
    #36

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    Who do you have in mind out of our current group of central midfielders?

    I think we should have ditched Anderson a couple of years ago after he spat the dummy out and fecked off back to Brazil. We should have left him there.
  37. May 7, 2012
    #37

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    At best that's a slightly stronger team than the one we fielded. Jones in central midfield is pretty much as bad as (current) Park. City would have still been much better than us in reality.
  38. May 7, 2012
    #38

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

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    While I don't agree with Devilish's 11, this seems to have become a standard response when Fergie's tactics are criticized - that it would have made no difference anyway. Same happened when people criticized how we set up against Barca. Against Barca I can still see the logic. They're far better than us. City aren't. There's not much in it.

    Forget that formation, why play Park and Giggs who have been two of our most out of form players. Park hasn't played well in ages. It was a team picked on trust based on the past which ignored the present. What about Valencia who has been outstanding for half a year? These decisions nullified our attacking threat completely. If not nullifying our attacking threat won't give us a decent shot against City, they must be streets ahead of us.
  39. May 7, 2012
    #39

    devilish Full Member

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    Its difficult to say as each player has his strengths/weaknesses which makes them great players in their good days but they have yet to show the consistency to deserve a place in our squad. Ando and Clev are good in their day but they are injury prone. Scholes and Giggs are the most technically gifted CM we've got but age is not at their side and they can't play week in week out, Fletch's career hang in a balance, Park is a winger and we've got better players in that role.

    If I was SAF I would bring in a DM and a box to box midfielder who can tackle. Park should be allowed to leave. Ando should be loaned (if you put him on the transfer market now, you'll end up selling him for peanuts) and one between Giggs/Scholes should 'retire' * (I prefer it would be Giggs). We should do any effort to keep Pogba as the boy has a great future ahead.

    I also think that the 4-4-2 system is dead and buried, at least against the bigger sides. 4-3-3 is the way to go so. We should consider bringing in an AMC (preferably someone who can play on the flanks) to replace Berba and Owen.


    My team for next season would be

    GK: De Gea, Lindegaard, some random U21 kid from our academy

    DR: Rafael, Jones
    DC: Rio, Smalling
    DC: Vidic, Evans
    DL: Evra, Some cheap but promising full back (Clyne???)

    DM: Carrick, New Guy (M'Vila? Felliani? Martinez?), Fletcher
    MC: New Guy (Montolivo?), Giggs/Scholes, Pogba
    AM: New Guy (Kagawa? Ander Herrera?, Hazard?)

    Stk: Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez.

    *. the player should keep on training as Scholes did this season so if he's needed he'll be introduced during the January transfer window.

    I acknowledge that these players will cost quite alot but I used those names as a guideline of what I think we need. I am confident that our scouts can find players who are as good and will cost less.
  40. May 7, 2012
    #40

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    At the Etihad I'd say they are to be honest. I think he'll use exactly the same tactics next season for instance but hopefully we'll have the players available to make it work. It's the same formation and tactics that produced an incredible run of away form in Europe and many notable away performances and results in the league.

    As for Valencia, he'd actually had a couple of fairly average performances before the City match and Nani was much better than him against Everton (he's also a more effective threat on the counter attack). If you want Giggs to tuck in from the left to help close down space in the middle then you can't pick both Nani and Valencia.

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