West Brom have application to introduce Safe Standing rejected | Government 'debate' on 25 June

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Adisa, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. Apr 9, 2018
    #1

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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    We have let a tragedy hinder progress. It's been 25 years ffs.
    Everyone bar a strong and vocal minority wants it to happen.
  2. Apr 9, 2018
    #2

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    While I definitely understand why it's such a touchy & sensitive issue, seeing how safe & successful this is elsewhere really should be enough to give it the go ahead.

    A shame it's been held back.
  3. Apr 9, 2018
    #3

    Wiltord02 Full Member

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    Joke decision. So many fans stand up these days, safe standing really needs introducing.

    Would love to know why they won't change the policy. Football has come a long way in the last 30 years,
  4. Apr 9, 2018
    #4

    TheReligion Abusive

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    Ridiculous decision
  5. Apr 9, 2018
    #5

    Claude Cat New Member

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    Even the majority of Liverpool fans want it, with 88% voting in favour in a Spirit of Shankly poll last year.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...t-of-shankly-hillsborough-96-88-a7868926.html

    A real shame.
  6. Apr 9, 2018
    #6

    vadimivich Full Member

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    I do not fully understand how the U.K government works - but how can clubs in Scotland have safe seating but not clubs in England? And could Swansea apply in Wales and have a different ruling (such as Celtic in Scotland?).
  7. Apr 9, 2018
    #7

    FootballHQ Full Member

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    Has it been a success at Celtic Park?
  8. Apr 9, 2018
    #8

    Rolandofgilead Inserts strawberry yoghurt rectally Scout

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    Not to be picky but it's been 29 years.
  9. Apr 11, 2018
    #9

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    It is a bit weird since UK govt covers England and Scotland but each country has a different Football Association so thats why it is different

    Swansea play under the English FA so it doesnt matter that they are in Wales

    Yes

    I think it will happen eventually - WBA are the first to push it forward but it just needs a bit more pressure
  10. Apr 11, 2018
    #10

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    This petition is already not far off the 10,000 needed for the govt to take notice - please sign it!

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207040

    "Safe Standing offers a much safer alternative to fans who wish to stand, rather than sit at football matches. After the highly successful introduction to rail seating at Celtic Park, as well as numerous Bundesliga clubs, many football fans feel that laws preventing standing areas should be relaxed..."
  11. Apr 11, 2018
    #11

    Oscie Banned

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    It'll never happen. The amount of energy that goes into pretending it might is really better spent elsewhere.
  12. Apr 11, 2018
    #12

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    What is ‘safe’ standing?
  13. Apr 11, 2018
    #13

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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  14. Apr 11, 2018
    #14

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    why not? doesnt make sense that it is fine in Scotland but not England

    It will happen - mostly due to the fact that fans stand all the time at Premier League grounds (eg J Stand and top of Stretford End at OT) and its actually far more dangerous doing that in seated areas than safe standing area
  15. Apr 11, 2018
    #15

    Bocca9978 New Member

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    Once most teams start applying hopefully it’ll go through. I can’t think of any reason for there not to be at least a small section behind the goal.

    Loved standing for 90 minutes when watching United on many occasions. It didn’t bother anyone.
  16. Apr 11, 2018
    #16

    Oscie Banned

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    Because we've been on this circle for absolutely years. No government is going to greenlight something like that given the history. They'd be on a hiding to nothing. Absolutely no benefit for them if they do and it all works out well (introducing safe standing probably isn't going to be a masthead policy for an election) but if God forbid ANYTHING at all happens even if slightly linked to safe standing they'll be under enormous pressure for green lighting it in the first place.

    When government stands to gain nothing but lose quite a lot on a decision it doesn't have to make, it's not going to happen. For historical and cultural reasons caution first will be the approach every single government from here to eternity takes.
  17. Apr 11, 2018
    #17

    vadimivich Full Member

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    The bigger risk (by far) is they do nothing and there's mass injuries from fans standing in all-seater sections. That's one of the biggest reasons why a move to safe standing (as is done in Germany, etc) makes so much sense. Having fans constantly standing in all-seater stadiums is quite dangerous.
  18. Apr 11, 2018
    #18

    vadimivich Full Member

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    My understanding is that this was a decision by the UK government, not the English FA. Did I misunderstand that?
  19. Apr 11, 2018
    #19

    711 Full Member Scout

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    Done.
  20. Apr 11, 2018
    #20

    Oscie Banned

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    It's a risk that hasn't yet caused a massive catastrophe or loss of life in the country though, is it? I don't think it has but I'll stand corrected. It's not experts or those who can see the sense in things who're making these decisions. It's politicians. They'll think of the downsides of being the one who green-lighted the change and all the negative, career-ending coverage it'll get should anything happen.

    '10 die at all-seater football stadium - minister under fire' - is what they're afraid of.
    '10 die as fans stand in seated area of football ground - politician who didn't change the rule to blame' - isn't something you'd see. A politician won't be blamed for maintaining the stauts quo even if there are risks with how things currently stand.
  21. Apr 11, 2018
    #21

    Oscie Banned

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    I also think maybe there's a fear it would make families less likely to purchase tickets to those sections of the ground. Even if unfounded, I think the fear is definitely real. Given how much work went into transforming English grounds in the 90s and beyond to be 'family friendly', even though some argue it had a negative affect on the atmosphere, is something else the authorities might be weary of rolling back.

    What works and doesn't work elsewhere is important but in many ways not relevant. We are where we are because of hour history and the country can't really remove itself from that. At least probably not in our life times. You can argue it's illogical but many customs, traditions and cautions are.
  22. Apr 11, 2018
    #22

    AndOr Hererra New Member

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    This may seem like a stupid question but if safe standing was allowed and implemented, will the fans in that area of the ground be allowed to sit at any point during the match? I read somewhere that the rail seats would be locked and i had previously thought that fans would still be allowed to sit if they wished to
  23. Apr 11, 2018
    #23

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    Its not been going on for years at all - I think you need to educate yourself about safe standing and its evolution over time in both the UK and abroad. Its a relatively recent invention and is a world away from the terraces that we had preHillsborough.
    Celtic introduced it just a couple of years ago and its only this week that WBA became the first PL club to challenge the status quo and apply for safe standing so this is a situation that has only developed in recent times.

    The pressure and support for it has only started to grow in the past few years, even Liverpool fan groups now back the call for the reintroduction and they were the big blocking point for several years.

    It will happen - its just a question of when.


    Yes but the 1989 Football Supporters Act which says that all top flight clubs have to be all seater does not apply to Scotland due to their different governing body, but they did initially adopt the same rules anyway but gave way to Celtic a couple of years back.


    No you cant sit once the rail seat has been locked - this video explains the system: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38017172
  24. Apr 12, 2018
    #24

    Red00012 New Member

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    Some of those people rejecting these applications are still living in the 70’s. It’s so frustrating as it will add to atmosphere.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2018
  25. Apr 23, 2018
    #25

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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  26. Apr 23, 2018
    #26

    fergies coat New Member

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    Don’t they still stand up in rugby games? What’s the difference?

    There shouldn’t be any problems whatsoever if it’s properly regulated.
  27. Apr 25, 2018
    #27

    Samid follows Pogue around, fixing his images

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  28. Apr 25, 2018
    #28

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    Nice to see some pressure building on the government to change the laws on this one - hopefully just a matter of time ...
  29. Apr 25, 2018
    #29

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    Good. It really needs to be discussed - Ideally by MPs that actually attend football matches.
  30. Apr 25, 2018
    #30

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    Rugby fans don’t have a history of hooliganism
  31. Apr 25, 2018
    #31

    Flying high Full Member

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    I expect there will be a couple who at least feign some interest.

    Doubt more than about 30 MPs will bother to turn up though and most won't be paying attention.

    You'd like to think a competent FA might be taking a lead on something like this too.... I don't even know who the head of the FA is right now.
  32. Apr 25, 2018
    #32

    eldoherz Full Member

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    It's a shame that nearly 30 years later that there hasn't been a real look at it.

    However as others have said, there's no real political will and it's all too easy for a small vocal minority to make the whole thing a PR nightmare.

    Football has changed so much but it's not free enough from issues to get a simple greenlight. Look at what happened to the City team bus in Liverpool. Look at the repeated issues fans have abroad like Chelsea's racists on the Paris Metro and the repeated policy brutality when English teams visit Spain.

    I'm hoping that someone is open minded enough and aware of the issues of standing in all seater grounds to actually champion a proper discussion in parliament. But it's politics so I shan't hold my breath.
  33. May 2, 2018
    #33

    Antisocial Has a Sony home cinema

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    Just had an email saying that Parliament will debate the issue on June 25th.
  34. May 2, 2018
    #34

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    Good news :D Fingers crossed common sense prevails.
  35. May 2, 2018
    #35

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

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    I think you missed the bit about government debating it
  36. May 2, 2018
    #36

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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  37. May 2, 2018
    #37

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    Although it might not make an immediate difference, the fact that it is even being debated in parliament is a step in the right direction - extra pressure from clubs who want to implement it is what will make the difference eventually

    The situation as it is makes little sense anyway because it is not banned at all English grounds, lower division clubs are allowed to put in safe standing so we currently have the situation where Shrewsbury Town (who might get promoted from League 1 to Championship) have just installed safe standing whereas West Brom (going down to Championship) have been refused - next season they might be playing in the same division!

    Safe-standing debate goes to Parliament as over 110,000 sign petition
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43971245
  38. May 7, 2018
    #38

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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    Government response:
    Nothing will change in my opinion.
  39. May 7, 2018
    #39

    Moriarty Full Member

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    Just the players.

    Things have moved on. Clubs have surveillance systems in place that can pick out a pimple on a gnat's arse, so identifying troublemakers wouldn't be a problem. Standing fans would still be subject to the club's ticket schemes and fans would not be turning up on the day paying at the turnstiles. I don't see why a standing section wouldn't work. You'll always get incidents outside of the grounds but that's not the issue, though I'm sure it will be raised in any objections.
  40. Jun 12, 2018
    #40

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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