What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Devil may care, Aug 11, 2018.

  1. Jun 3, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    What do we still need?

    Easier to say what positions we're sorted in. If no one leaves we're sorted in..

    GK, LB, Pogba.
    Most likely Rashford and Martial are seen by Ole as certain starters, but every single other position needs upgrading!
  2. Jun 3, 2019

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    I'd say the immediate positions that we arent looking at or thinking about are:
    Left back, 1 CB, LW and ST. Those 4 being Shaw, Lindelof, Martial and Rashford. Obviously none of these are guaranteed starters long term or "set" players, but I think Ole is happy enough to go into next season with those 4 starting. Then there's De Gea and Pogba who we'd prefer to keep but might want out, so that's up in the air. RW, RB, CB and CMx2 are 5 starting positions that regardless of outgoings, need to be improved though.
  3. Jun 3, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Depends if they want to improve, play for a club that actually tries to win something or if they want $$$$.
  4. Jun 4, 2019

    john moran New Member

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    Uniteds name despite the Glaziers is still a Top worldwide brand , most top level footballers will be happy to come , especially with the sort salaries we offer . The problem is not with players coming in the problem is with getting the many many under performers we have out , as this illustration from twitter clearly shows

    These are the numbers of players that are still at their respective clubs since 2015
    City - 7 Liverpool - 9 Chelsea - 5 Arsenal - 4 Wolves - 2 Manchester United - 18

    How have we be doing since 2015 ?
  5. Jun 4, 2019

    diarm Full Member

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    GK - Fine. Unless De Gea leaves. Even then, we could manage a season with Romero and Henderson/Pereira challenging.
    RB - Urgent. 2 options leaving and Young nowhere close to good enough. Dalot shows promise but needs to be eased in behind a proven operator.
    CB - Urgent. Need a top quality CB to lead our defence.
    LB - Could be better. Shaw is ok but hasn't delivered on his promise and behind him the cupboard is bare.
    DM - Could be better. Matic is finished and McTominay is good but not top class in this role. Garner a young prospect.
    CM - Urgent. Need more composure, creativity and class in the middle of the park.
    AM - Fine unless Pogba leaves. If he does then Urgent.
    RW - Urgent. Neglected for going on a decade and we have absolutely nothing to offer here.
    LW - Fine. Plenty of options to fill in here.
    CF - Urgent. Lukaku not good enough and Greenwood too young to shoulder the role on his own.
  6. Jun 4, 2019

    john moran New Member

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    I wonder how much of the "urgent" is seen by the Glaziers and Woodward . Its more of a "patch and mend " than a rebuild like yours that they have in mind I would think .
  7. Jun 4, 2019

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    That’s why we are always so slow and reactive, there is no medium to long term plan and it’s just a case of getting what they can to do the job. I am sure they are already being knocked back or moving too late for players as a lot of clubs will have been doing groundwork for months.

    There is going to be a huge meltdown once people realise a huge rebuild isn’t happening and that a lot of our players aren’t going to be sold.
  8. Jun 4, 2019

    Sea-Cow New Member

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    Agree with most of this.

    My thoughts --

    LB - Fine. Shaw is good, can only improve if he works on his fitness and slims down some. Hopefully he stays injury free because depth is lacking as you mentioned.
    DM - Urgent. Our CBs are often exposed, runners aren't tracked, and even shit teams are able to easily keep possession against us. Its not entirely Matic's fault, but he certainly doesn't help.
    CM - Fine. I think our CMs are fine because I include Pogba in this category. It sucks to lose Hererra, and we could certainly improve this area, I just think there are other more important needs.
    AM / RW / LW / CF -- Urgent. All of the current options are simply not good enough. Whether down to lack of quality, lack of pace, lack of effort, lack of maturity, or a combination of any of the above, the players we have are not good enough to and I wouldn't miss any one of them, excluding Greenwood. He gets a pass for youth and potential.

    Sea-Cow hierarchy of needs --

    Attacking players with pace and world-class ability. This is an absolute must.
    CB -- need a VVD signing
    RB -- no more Ashley Young, for the love of god. Dalot needs to improve and can't be relied on next year.
    DM -- we need to be more difficult to play against. No more 100 pass moves by City, finished off with a tap-in. F that
  9. Jun 4, 2019

    Devil may care Full Member

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    There are constant links to like Bruno Fernandes, Joao Felix and now Maddison who are all perfect for the tip of the diamond, we are barely linked to any wingers since the Daniel James story broke and the realization that Sancho isn't happening, I remain convinced that Ole will try to go with the 4-4-2 diamond next season, hence Meunier or Cancelo making sense as we need some attacking width from the fullbacks in that system.

    I think the most we will get in is 5 players but I am hoping Daniel James doesn't count as one of the 5 and is seen more as an inexpensive punt to use from the bench, otherwise I shudder to think who will be lining up as the DM in this formation, I'm guessing at Rabiot for the #8 as he's free, or as free as free gets once you factor in the signing on bonus.


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  10. Jun 4, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    It is still "Only" June 4th, as someone will always pipe up with, but it just has that feel of a year with a load of exciting links early on, and most of it being totally made up.
    Just from the sheer lack of anything happening on the exit route, and the renewals makes you suspect there's not the "clearout" that OGS had seemed to suggest.
  11. Jun 4, 2019

    Gandalf Full Member

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    I would just argue that there has been hardly any activity at any club yet. The European transfer market does not open for another 7 days and a lot of the players we are allegedly in for are playing internationals games. I do think a lot is going on behind the scenes but as much as I want some news now I understand that it is highly unlikely for at least another week.
  12. Jun 4, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    I hope you're right, but we've had a few summers where it hasn't turned out well.
    It'd beggar belief not to go big this summer wouldn't it though!
  13. Jun 4, 2019

    dove Full Member

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    Desperately need RB, RW, CM, CB, DM and the manager. Would be great to replace Lukaku with someone better but unlike many others I don't think it's that urgent.
  14. Jun 4, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

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    I'm watching the Howson Simon Stone interview on YT.

    Making the best point I think. The players almost are secondary to the system and the style of play.

    "How do you fix the United puzzle?" "It's impossible if you don't know the picture on the front of the jigsaw box".

    However good the player is, if he doesn't fit the system he'll be useless. A diamond can be fantastic but we then need flying full backs etc etc.

    Get a formation, a style and a process and commit. COMMIT.
  15. Jun 4, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

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    I like this but does anyone have examples of Rabiot and Pogba playing well together for France?
  16. Jun 4, 2019

    Crashoutcassius Full Member

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    Good post. Strikes me as wreckless not replacing Herrera though. But agree that signing AWB, Sancho and De Ligt and retaining Pogba and De Gea and just building on that next summer is the way to go. Not really sold on Rabiot personally, seems a bit like more of the same kinda moaners. Would rather see someone who wants to come here and make their career, ala Longstaff or Rice.
  17. Jun 4, 2019

    do.ob Full Member

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    I mean Bayern already spent €110m on two world cup winners and are quite visibly working on Sane and Werner, Real bought half a team, Barca bought de Jong.
  18. Jun 4, 2019

    Drainy Full Member

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    This summer could really be a disaster. We're facing losing de Gea, Pogba and Lukaku.

    That is basically the guy who (usually) stops us from conceding 2-3 a game and the two players who score and assist most of our goals.

    There is something to be said for trying to be more balanced and getting a style of play going again, but we're facing a pretty drastic further drop in quality unless they are going to pull something spectacular out of the bag.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  19. Jun 4, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Well, high press and able to play possession. Seems to be working for a number of teams.

    Players are secondary to the system if they all have a minimum amount of ability. If you have a number of players that can barely receive and pass the ball, or are not able to play in a team pressing high, then you will have to adapt the system to fit your players lack of abilities.
  20. Jun 4, 2019

    Gandalf Full Member

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    We are visibly working on deals too and if Real bought half a team they did it awfully quietly. The de Jong deal has been agreed for a couple of months but has not actually been completed yet. In the PL I think there have been 2 signings so far and with a bunch of players tied up on international duty I expect it will be another week at least before the deals start being confirmed. If we have nothing done by the last week of June then I will be panicking too but right now it is incredibly premature.
  21. Jun 4, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Currently, I'm more worried about the lack of rumours that some of our players are not leaving. Still not great seeing suiteable targets like Brandt and Jovic signing for other clubs.
  22. Jun 4, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    @JPRouve

    Little question mate - is Gabriel the defender for Lille any good or not to our level?
  23. Jun 4, 2019

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    I have no idea, he only really started to play in 2019 and I haven't really given him any sort of attention.
  24. Jun 4, 2019

    George The Best Full Member

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    This is my real concern also. The stronger rumours are about 3 of our better players leaving, without any really strong links to new signings - other than Daniel James and a 16 year old from Ajax. I’m ignoring the De Ligt story as just noise, as it would be a miracle to get him in the building whilst eating a massive hole in our budget. It’s been 23 days since the end of our season and just 26 days, and counting, to the start of pre-season. We’ve got a tremendous amount of work to do in that timeframe. Ole could be hung out to dry if we don’t get our act together quickly.
  25. Jun 4, 2019

    Icemav Full Member

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    Thanks for pointing us to that interview. It was a fantastic 40 minutes of common sense. As you highlight Ole has to have a completed puzzle in mind and assemble the pieces to successfully create that picture. In this regard it is impossible to know what players should be coming in.

    I loved this other point. Liverpool sold Countinho and used the finances to complete the puzzle with VVD and Allison. That is rock solid planning.

    And the other point about us assembling Pogba, Lukaku and Sanchez. 200m to purchase and 1m/ wk in salary... and the question was: could a manager explain how to get those 3 players playing together superbly? Its a fantastic question because creating a system for those 3 players to shine seems very very hard. Or at least not an excercise you would want to attempt.

    Anyway too many other titbits to mentiond but thanks again.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  26. Jun 4, 2019

    Icemav Full Member

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    If that is accurate it is very interesting. Not a fool proof strategy but it seems most of our major competitors have maintained in a few areas and then opted for revolution elsewhere. Whereas we have been going for slow evolution.

    We do find ourselves in a pickle and we need Ole to choose a solid pathway forwards for us. Then we can recruit sensibly and quickly. I just hope it is modern and sucessful. What we had before was messy hopping between outdated styles.
  27. Jun 4, 2019

    NinjaZombie Punched the air when Liverpool beat City

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    Great point.

    United, rewarding mediocrity since 2015.
  28. Jun 4, 2019

    Devil may care Full Member

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    I'm not sure they ever have, if they have it's not been regularly as Rabiot blotted his copy book with the national team.
  29. Jun 5, 2019

    croadyman New Member

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    Honestly think we need a minimum of five players this window

    CB - Maguire/De Ligt/Dias/Alderweireld
    RB - AWB/Cancelo/Meunier
    DM - Partey/Rice/Ndidi/Longstaff
    CM/AM - Bruno/Maddison/Rabiot/Ndombele
    RW - Pepe/Lozano/Sancho

    Would need seven if we lose Lukaku and Pogba too,however unrealistic to sign that many in one window
  30. Jun 5, 2019

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

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    This thread should be titled what don't we need it would be easier:
    • Our Goalkeeper clearly either wants Sanchez money or wants to leave and his form has been poor. (I suppose you can argue withe Romero and Henderson we have decent back up if De Gea does leave)
    • The defense is a bit of a mess, Though realistically we have too many players to buy anyone at the moment, and no one seems to be breaking down our door trying to sign any of our defenders
    • Midfield, Herrera and Fellaini have already gone, Pogba quite clearly either wants Sanchez money or wants to leave. Matic is obviously past his best now(this is why you don't spend 40million on players 27 plus, because you only get a couple of seasons out of them before you need to replace them). McTominay stepped up a bit, but not to the level I would feel comfortable building our midfield around him. And we've only seen glimpses of what Freds capable off.
    • Attack wise, Mata is out of contract and is 31, Sanchez is past it but were only going to get rid of him by giving him away for free and paying probably 75% of his wages, (again see my Matic comment you don't invest big money in players over 27) Martial probably has the worst attitude of any player in the squad, Rashford looks like a player who has hardly progressed since he broke into the first team(not surprising when Mourinho was his coach) Lingard has had good spells, but many on here don't rate him and had and awful end to the year when he came back from injury. And Lukaku seems to want to go.
    • On top of that we have a manager who at Christmas no one thought was up to the job, but got the job after what was now clearly just a incredible new manager bounce. Which now looks stupid as he was then in charge of which was the worse run of form pretty much ever. Also the only experince he as of anything like big money transfers was at Cradiff which was clearly a unmitigated disaster.
    • A Ceo( or whatever Woodward is) who is obviously sensational at commercial business, but equally is just dreadful at managing football matters, but clearly doesn't want to relinquish power in this area.
    • There is quite clearly a severe attitude/culture problem within the squad possibly the club.
    • A scouting department that hasn't really lead us to an unquestionable success of a signing since De Gea in 2011
    • A coaching department, that has hardly improved any first team player since what De Gea? maybe you could argue Lingard or Lindelof
    • Our funds are not Infinite, we can't go out and spend 200+ million, last year we made an operating profit of between 40 and 50 million, this was while spending around 80 million in the transfer market, So realistically anything over 130-150 million and we will be making a loss. This may be lower as we don't have champions league football and if we do give players like Pogba and De Gea the money the want that will cut our funds further.
    • On top of all that there are some area's of old trafford that are starting to look really tatty now, pitch side is great, but some of the rest of the stadium really needs some money spent on it.
    This summer at its best is going to be like turning up to a bomb site with dust pan and brush and wondering where to start.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  31. Jun 5, 2019

    Hernandez - BFA The Way to Fly

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    Think when these pesky Internationals are done - we’ll see some moves.
  32. Jun 5, 2019

    Noc-Z ffs

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    Frightening what we still need. Disgraceful situation. But what are we doing to make the situation better, to avoid just repeating this mess over and over again? Whats going on behind the scenes? Have we got a shortlist for a Director of Football? Do we think the current structure is fine? Who's identifying/approving/signing players...what's the plan? Looks like we'll just stumble along as we are. Probably sign hardly anyone this summer. We'll just sign whoever fancies the pot of cash on offer to come here with no real plan as to a system, a footballing culture. I really hope this isn't the case, desperate to be proved wrong. I'll live in (not much) hope I suppose.
  33. Jun 5, 2019

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    So, Maddison or Fernandes? Who is better? Who is more technically gifted? Have to say I'm quite impressed by Maddison. Seems very complete.
  34. Jun 5, 2019

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

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    think its is just simply the wages we pay make it almost impossible to sell anyone.
  35. Jun 5, 2019

    Devil may care Full Member

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    I think Bruno will be much easier to get as Sporting seem ready to sell and he is talking up moving, Leicester only bought Maddison last summer so I doubt they are looking to sell.
  36. Jun 5, 2019

    red woppit Full Member

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    Agree in the main, but I personally think a DM, or CM players who can do the defensive work (covering runs, supporting full backs, even slotting in at CB/FB if the CB/FB has been pulled out of position or has been caught upfield after a corner). It certainly appears that Pogba has his mind set on leaving Old Trafford, and with Matic struggling physically, we need to bring in at least two CM's. I do like Maddison, but don't believe he is a number 10, can see him on the right side of a midfield three, Fernandes looks a good buy, and can see him as an attacking midfielder, playing between the midfield and strikers, but having the ability to press when required. Rabiot I'm not sure about, could he be another unsettling presence in the dressing room? but if he wants to play for United, and is prepared to put in the hard work he would be quite an asset. I quite like the look of Brooks at Bournemouth, left footed, and like Maddison, I think he could develop into a very good CM, on the left of a three. Although McTominay is limited, he certainly puts himself about, and could see him playing the central role in a three. Quite inexperienced midfield three of Maddison, McTominay and Brooks, but I think all can improve, and all in early twenties, so time is on there side. Felix looks very good, but would only pay half the fee that's being asked up front, the rest coming through add ons. If De Gea also wanted out, then I would happily see Romero as number one, with (hopefully) Henderson ready for the following season. CB is a must. De Ligt is the one if we can get him, think we are moving heaven and earth to try to get him. Tuanzebe is an interesting one, think he will go on the tour, and if he does well, can see him pushing for a place, if not then a possible season long loan to Villa may be on the cards, unless Villa have already got someone in. RB is also a must, AWB for me, again, like Felix, so much up front, the rest in add ons. Lukaku also looks like he will move on, and I like the look of Arnoutevic as a short term striker, give him a two year contract, then he can go on a free after that to China or wherever, hopefully Greenwood will be able to play a full season by then. The RW position is one I'm unsure about, could James come in and make it his position, he certainly has the pace to frighten most defences, also Chong, but he may need a season long loan somewhere before he is ready. Gomes, Greenwood, Garner, Laird, O'Connor and Puigmal will probably get some game time during the season, but by summer next year several could be ready to step up. Let's all keep our fingers crossed that we sign at least some of these guys that the media is spouting on about.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  37. Jun 5, 2019

    Sea-Cow New Member

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    Well said and sums up the situation perfectly.

    How can the same people be allowed to make poor decisions over and over again, with no consequences? It may be the crushing depression and pessimism talking, but I am inclined to predict any move we make this summer will be a bad one, based simply on the fact that Ed and the directors are the ones making it. Maybe giving the job to Ole will be looked back upon as the moment our fortunes changed and the slide was arrested, but.... to steal a phrase, I'll live in (not much) hope I suppose.
  38. Jun 6, 2019

    NinjaZombie Punched the air when Liverpool beat City

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    Rewarding mediocrity with long contracts and undeserved high wages.

    I remember a time when United had strict wages policies. So strict that Ferguson himself earned less than George Graham, we couldn't afford players like Batistuta (while Chelsea could get the likes of Desailly, Casiraghi and Vialli from the Serie A), and our club captain had to threaten to leave so he could be paid 50k per week in 2001.

    Nowadays we're handing out big wages to players who people who show good form for two weeks, players who've spent more time in the physio room than on the pitch, a mediocre winger-turned-fullback, amongst others.
  39. Jun 6, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

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    If De ligt is off the table then i'd go with the following..

    CB Koulibaly or Milenkovic

    LB Kieran Tierney, would be a muppet-tastic signing as far as i'm concerned.

    DM Declan Rice, I think a specialist ball winner is required.

    CM Adrien Rabiot, free transfer

    RW ???

    Lukaku and De Gea could potentially leave, so a new striker and goalkeeper could also arrive.
  40. Jun 6, 2019

    Noc-Z ffs

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    Exactly. Ed should just be a commercial director or something like that. He should have no footballing responsibility whatsoever.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019