What makes us so great?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Fortitude, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. Aug 31, 2018
    #1

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    Please spare this thread from the Jose in/out bollocks.

    With that said, and having seen us consistently post improving and expansive growth during a really poor five year period, relative to the giants we're supposed to be, how is it we continue to outdo, well, everyone else?

    You would have thought inroads would've been made by other clubs in the 5yrs since Fergie retired, but, evidently not. Was our fanbase and separation from other English clubs during the boom period for football in this country so vast that the difference is unassailable? Has our legend passed on to the kids coming up? Is it because of the Asian market? Is it simple consolidation of what we were?

    So what do you think is causing us to grow completely unabashed and disconnected from our onfield performance, and is growth without success assured for us irrespective of what we do in the game over the next few years?
  2. Aug 31, 2018
    #2

    Kemizee New Member

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    The brand and legacy is monumental compared to our rivals and that will not just fade away overnight. Fergie retired in 2013. This is 2018 not 2035.... Sponsors are aware we are still the country's top dog and that if push comes to shove we have the wherewithal to pick ourselves up.

    Over time, if this slump continues, we will not lose all our commercial strength. Our rivals will simply share the deals that we previously monopolized and the brand value will drop a bit. We all hope it doesn't come to that and the owners seize the moment and consolidate.
  3. Aug 31, 2018
    #3

    Red_toad Full Member

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    Liverpool have been very good at growing their brand with very little in the way of success over the last 20 some years. 10 trophies in 18 years isn't a lot compared to United or any other major team. United have been way more successful and that is very much shown in our sponsorship/ commercial deals. We're a solid brand that attracts high profile players and massive crowds.
  4. Aug 31, 2018
    #4

    AndyJ1985 Full Member Verified Moaner

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    Nothing makes us great. We're basically Liverpool after their dominance ended; we're living off past glories at this point.
  5. Aug 31, 2018
    #5

    idmanager Banned

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    Its the romance. The history.

    Also, we hit our peak as a club during the economic boom and the global PL boom.

    We were at the right place at the right time with the greatest manager of all times
  6. Aug 31, 2018
    #6

    WR10 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Humans value sentiment. In fact, a lot of money gets invested into it. The thing with sentiment is that it will fade but it takes quite a bit of time. I mean look at Liverpool - the last time they were really of any relevance was back in the late 80s
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  7. Aug 31, 2018
    #7

    M Bison Full Member

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    You may be right but if you think of a club like AC Milan, they have been off the pace for years but must be still considered as one of the most attractive clubs in Italy? We havent dropped that far yet of course.
  8. Aug 31, 2018
    #8

    Random Task Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    The two situations are totally different.

    Dalglish left Liverpool with an ageing squad who were past their best and on the brink of debt to boot. United are one of the most financially secure football clubs on the planet, thus they have the means to buy themselves back to the top.

    We're in somewhat of an extended transitional period, nothing more. We'll get back to the top eventually.
  9. Aug 31, 2018
    #9

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

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    I mean this in a non-judgemental way but we're probably the most arrogant club around. I don't see many other clubs asserting their belief in winning trophies despite showing almost no dominance. I think it's part of what makes the club what it is and largely why we have had so much success in the past. It's sheer bloody mindedness but in a good way. I also think it's why people hate us.

    I think it's why Jose rubs people up the wrong way, including perhaps Ed Woodward. He doesn't seem to believe in the mantra as he makes everything about him. He's the winner used to winning and will continue to win because he is a winner, not the club. Whether he really believes that is up for debate but I think it's a bit problematic given how the club views itself (call it branding, philosophy or w.e.).
  10. Aug 31, 2018
    #10

    Jacko21 Full Member

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    This is well worth a read from 2012, it answers a number of questions around why United are able to do what they do.

    https://www.london.edu/faculty-and-research/lbsr/why-is-manchester-united-so-successful
    • There is no evidence to suggest there is a correlation between on-field performance and commercial success
    • Whilst others understand how Manchester United became successful, it is not easy to copy it
    • Manchester United (a la Coca-Cola) are a leading brand and that isn't as easily eroded as some might expect
    Also...
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  11. Aug 31, 2018
    #11

    Camilo Full Member

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    Nothing at all. We were lucky to be successful during the period when football became big business. We rode that wave for 20 or so years, and built a huge following on top of it. That doesn't change over night. It will change if 5 years of dross becomes 10.
  12. Aug 31, 2018
    #12

    The Firestarter Full Member

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    Rather unfortunate thread title.
  13. Aug 31, 2018
    #13

    WensleyMU New Member

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    Erm...

    Post Fergie we are the 3rd most successful Premier League side behind City and Chelsea. 3 major trophies in 5 years is only bettered by those two. We are the only English side post Ferguson to have any success in Europe as well, though the lesser of the two competitions, it's unmatched.

    And these are "dark times" according to some, United fans and others alike. Winning more in 5 years of struggle than some of our rivals have won in 10,15, 20 or more.
  14. Aug 31, 2018
    #14

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Short term this is valid, but not in the long term.
    A reason for MUFC to be commercially succesful know is due to the fact that many of the kids growing up during Mancheser United most succesful years(97-07) and becoming fans due to our dominance, are now grown ups/consumers. Making the club attractive for sponsorsships.

    The average football interested kid (10-15 years old) nowadays are supporting either Real Madrid or Barcelona. Making it likely that these clubs will become even more attractive commercially in 10-15 years.
  15. Aug 31, 2018
    #15

    Edgio Full Member

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    History, legacy, financial power. We'd be back at the top football wise too if it wasn't for some piss poor decision making by the board.
  16. Aug 31, 2018
    #16

    el3mel Full Member

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    Under SAF : Dominance, trophies, legacy, history.

    Currently : Sponsors deals and club value in the market.
  17. Aug 31, 2018
    #17

    Ekeke Full Member

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    Great is a huge stretch. But being towards the top is because of £

    We make £, we spend £

    Without it we wouldnt have made progress
  18. Sep 1, 2018
    #18

    MuFc_1992 New Member

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    We'll definitely not be top dogs after a while but we've got shitload of fans around the world and from my experience football is like an addiction. You cannot just stop watching because your team is shit because there's always that hope that next game will be better.
  19. Sep 1, 2018
    #19

    FujiVice Full Member

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    We're Manchester United. No explanation is necessary.
  20. Sep 1, 2018
    #20

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    Right now Man Utd feels to me like Cutty in The Wire. Not the top dog anymore (temporarily) but highly regarded and respected for their name and authenticity.

    Idk, had to make a Wire analogy.
  21. Sep 1, 2018
    #21

    tentan New Member

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    I think United are just living off their history now.
  22. Sep 1, 2018
    #22

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    You can't live off past glories whilst continually posting massive growth - there's got to be more to it than the past for the club to now, 5 years from being the dominant force in the land, to be growing exponentially with seemingly no end to that in sight.

    Liverpool faded within a few years of being the all-conquering behemoth they were throughout the 70's and 80's with a period of arrested development that we've experienced nothing like. It's almost like sponsors want to get in with us before we're hot again so that they can negotiate at a lowered rate before we're 'invariably' at the top again, which in itself is spectacular. I don't know how many other clubs in the world could grow whilst in an on-the-pitch down period. Not even sure it applies for Real or Barcelona.
    Doesn't this more explain getting to the top and staying there whilst indisputably being the best team in the land? Five years is a longgg time in football - more than enough time to fall back into the pack for a lot of clubs.

    Our first period of global growth came with the Busby Babes and the 60's, then there was a period of consolidation. Understandable. Our second period of global growth came with Fergie's achievements, again, understandable. But we're now growing without doing anything of note on the pitch; it must be absolutely infuriating for rival clubs for this to be so, and I'm sure rival fans who love numbers @GlastonSpur aren't best pleased this is the case. I also wonder what potential suitors for the club think - there is no window for them to come in and buy us on the cheap, which their usually would be for a club failing on the pitch. We're anomalous, are we not?
    In boxing, Floyd Mayweather would milk millions upon millions out of those that hate(d) him by playing the heel who they'd tune in to, and pay to watch his fights, for years to absolutely no avail. I should think in some ways we're equivalent to that, but even though we are now losing, we're doing better than ever? It's quite remarkable when you think about it. There'll be rival fans out there who have waited their entire lives to see us 'knocked off our perch' and I can't help but feel there must be no end of dismay for them in the fact we go from strength to strength whilst in an on-the-pitch down cycle.
    I know that's true for American teams in their sports (Knicks, Red Sox etc.) but is it applicable to football? There's a strong belief in the correlation between winning and playing beautiful football en route is what creates and the cements a legacy and we're certainly no different in terms of that particular cornerstone. The maintained, nay expanding, success during a poor period of football is something else, though. But are there any other examples in football where this is the case?

    I wonder what a paper from those same peers would read like in 2018 because in 2012, we were still very much in a position where being absolute top dogs was not out of the question as it is now, so what metric could be used to refute the claim at the time as opposed to now?
    Relative to our earnings and other giants of the game, it is a poor period for the club. Compared to other sides in England it reflects more on their standing than ours that they've done so little whilst it was there for the taking, but are they what we compare ourselves against as one of the true mega clubs in the game? Our side eye surely looks pointedly at the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern and the like.
    How? It's 'great', 'incredible', 'phenomenal', 'astounding' or whatever interchangeable adjective you want to use for us to continually show massive growth whilst being nothing at all special on the pitch, is it not? Unfortunately for fans, it can, and probably does go a long way to assuaging our boardroom and shareholders alike as we show no sign of slowing as a financial juggernaut no matter what we do. As a measure of greatness, it shows what and where we are that we can do that whilst being a footballing non-entity relative to the other giants.
  23. Sep 1, 2018
    #23

    tjb Full Member

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    We remind me of real madrid from 2003-2007. They dropped off...but they were still the main headline in football... Too big to fail long termn
  24. Sep 1, 2018
    #24

    NLunited New Member

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    The only thing that makes a club great is the football on the pitch.
  25. Sep 1, 2018
    #25

    Needham Full Member

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    The prawn sandwiches.
  26. Sep 1, 2018
    #26

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    People may be overanalyzing the greatness thing a bit. Ultimately, you are as great as your most recent league finish.
  27. Sep 1, 2018
    #27

    meamth Full Member

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    Because of the come back from Munich disaster and during that period we gathered worldwide attention when football wasn't a thing yet.

    Busby babes, Duncan Edwards, Munich air disaster, Fergie, Cantona, first ever footballer/celebrity Beckham in United, Fergie time, The treble, Ronaldo and imo the first football club to gain commercial success.

    But I guess it's because we're like the pioneer of commercial football.

    EDIT:
    Forgot to add 20 times, 20 times, 20 times, Man Utd.
  28. Sep 1, 2018
    #28

    Billy Blaggs Flacco of the Blaggs tribe

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    I made sure not to read anything but the question..
    What makes us great is Manchester. The city of bees.
  29. Sep 1, 2018
    #29

    Ekeke Full Member

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    Its riding off the back of our previous success. You don't think anyone could do that if they had our same recent success and resources?
  30. Sep 1, 2018
    #30

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Two decades of domination at a time when football and the PL grew exponentially in terms of money, media coverage, social media coverage and the general explanation of football and a spectacle.

    That doesn't get undone easily. However I do think the longer we take to reclaim the throne the smaller the gap will get. We have no guaranteed spot on the elite boys table.
  31. Sep 1, 2018
    #31

    whatwha Sniffs Erricksson’s diarrhea

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    I'm not so sure we actually are "great" right now. Mostly living off past glories and with the promise of perhaps returning to PL/CL contention due to our financial power.

    That, and we have a lot of adult fans who have followed the club for 1-3 decades, who aren't just going to jump ship to support another club. These adult fans are commercially valuable too, with their disposable income.

    I'd worry about the current/next generation of kids/teenagers though. We're not going to be the most attractive club for them if our crap football continues for many more years. If I were a young kid today and looked for an entertaining club to support there's a chance I wouldn't land on Man Utd.
  32. Sep 1, 2018
    #32

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    When you combine the 2 quotes below, I think you have your answer.
    We are not as shit/irrelevant as some fans would have you believe.

  33. Sep 1, 2018
    #33

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    I would understand consolidation whilst not winning anything of note for half a decade, but continued, unabated growth? I seriously doubt anyone else could do that. Barcelona and Madrid have spent an absolute fortune on the two best players in the world and squads to match to maintain their popularity and status; success and what they represent goes hand-in-hand with what they are. You've got who else left? Bayern, Juventus AC Milan??

    What is Milan's status after so many years in the wilderness? (@giorno @Nedved ) I don't know if the strangleholds the other two have will ever be broken for us to find out, so I think ours is a unique situation in the first place amongst our so-called peers.

    I think Liverpool are the English club you'd add to that list for what they once were, but it's more a case of consolidation with them, isn't it? Have they grown whilst being a lesser entity than they once were?
    Do you really believe a single banding are the cause of continued growth for us as a club? If that is so, then it's by the sheer number of them we already had because of our last success cycle. I initially thought that might be far-fetched, but then I suppose you might have to consider the sheer number of them we have across the globe, and it doesn't seem so unfeasible.

    It would also go quite a way to explain commercial growth as the sponsors then try to appeal to that many supporters with disposable income.

    I did ask about the next generations down as I've no idea how we're talked about on playgrounds and social media directed at children, as well as how much we're picked in football games etc.although it's the data I'd be the most curious in seeing.
  34. Sep 1, 2018
    #34

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Asian market? Kids most support the best teams. I didnt know what City' or Chelsea's or Psg's kit looked like 10 years ago. Now kids walk around in them. United is big enough to not lose it's market share after a few bad years, but keep this up and you will.
  35. Sep 1, 2018
    #35

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    It’s been five years and during this period we’ve won Europa League, League Cup and finished 2nd. It’s not that bad, every big club has gone through transition period like this at some point over the last 15-20 years - be it Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern.
  36. Sep 1, 2018
    #36

    Bestietom Full Member

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    History, and having the greatest manager in the world in Fergie.
  37. Sep 1, 2018
    #37

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    Granted that TV coverages weren't the same in the 80s-90s but PSG were a bigger club at that time, a far bigger club. I'm always surprised by the fact that a lot of people ignore that.
  38. Sep 1, 2018
    #38

    TheReligion Abusive

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    :lol: what trash
  39. Sep 1, 2018
    #39

    buckooo1978 Full Member

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    good post

    it's this that makes me fairly ok with our current situation

    the main issue with have is with a lack of footballing leadership in the establishment and working towards an identity of how we want to play - appointments/signings have been too short sighted

    I honestly think we need three things to challenge for the league

    a good Director of Football committed to the values we aspire to. (attacking football, youth, world class talent etc)

    a good coach/manager to follow that blueprint and manage the players

    3 or 4 signings to address the glaring issues with the squad

    8 or 9 years of inconsistent crap isn't too much to take after all the joy Fergie served up is it?
  40. Sep 1, 2018
    #40

    TheReligion Abusive

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    Another one. So nothing makes United great? What utter utter tripe