What the team could have looked like...

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by haram, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Nov 7, 2017
    #1

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    6,252
    -------Rashford---Lukaku
    -----------Griezmann-----
    Perisic--Pogba--Matic-Valencia

    Then a three at the back + De Gea. Swap Martial in for Rashford if you like. I think Jose signed Lindelof to play in a back 3.

    :(

    I think this is what Mourinho wanted. There is so much power, pace and attacking threat in there. I wonder if he goes into next summer looking for something similar?
  2. Nov 7, 2017
    #2

    Devil may care Full Member Verified Moaner

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    28,042
    Doesn't really excite me, it's a blunt object team still reliant on Pogba as the only creative passer, the Griezmann role with two strikers who's game is simply to run in behind, with a 3rd player who's strength is also running in behind isn't a good fit IMO, it needs a #10 who's game is more like Eriksen or indeed the Caf's current fav freebie, Ozil.
  3. Nov 7, 2017
    #3

    Robertd0803 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,091
    Sort it in January never mind next summer before we fall even further behind.

    I agree on Lindleof, dont think hes anywhere near ready to play central in a back 4, and think he was intending to be the ball playing one of a back 3.
  4. Nov 7, 2017
    #4

    Home&Away Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,100
    I don't think Ozil will work tbh. I like him & like him as a player but the 352 in my eyes works by having a false number 9 & a false CB.

    One CB that joins the defense to make it three. And one CAM/SS that joins the strikers to make it 3 up top
  5. Nov 7, 2017
    #5

    Offside Euro 2016 sweepstake winner

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    15,089
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    We should have signed Morata on top of Lukaku. Lukaku just can’t hold the ball ip to save his life so in the big games we are redundant in attack. Doesn’t help with Mkhitaryan being so poor and Pogba injured either to be fair. But Lukaku as a lone striker has a lot of improving to do.
  6. Nov 7, 2017
    #6

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    6,252
    So like Griezmann and Lindelof potentially?
  7. Nov 7, 2017
    #7

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    31,729
    Location:
    Canada
    That wouldn't work most likely. Griezmann you would want to play right behind a main striker who's strength is link up play and who is creative and set chances up for Griezmann, since Griezmann's strength is being that player to run in behind but from slightly deeper positions. People just see his name and think he's a fancy individual player who could come here and change everything and make everything work. Not at all, he's very reliant on the system he's in and especially wouldn't work playing behind 2 players who are effectively poachers (since his best role is the same thing). Perisic, not sure how much he'd change. Our left wing is the only position which is performing pretty well on a consistent basis through Marital or Rashford (or Young occasionally doing a decent job).

    Griezmann might help to an extent, in terms of getting another body in attacking positions all the time and in the box to be another goal threat. But he'd change nothing when it comes to the big games and how we've struggled to do anything in them. Against smaller teams which we don't seem to have much of a problem against, he'd probably help getting a few extra goals.

    Perisic on the right would be an improvement, but he's mainly played as a left winger, not right winger.
  8. Nov 7, 2017
    #8

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,887
    Location:
    Behind the right goal post as "Whiteside shoots!"
    Smalling is a false defender if that's any use?
  9. Nov 7, 2017
    #9

    P-Nut0712 fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    11,039
    Location:
    Oldham, Greater Manchester
    It's mourinhos approach to the big games that has seen us play the way we have. We've seen much worse off teams than us have more control in games than we had against Liverpool and Chelsea.
  10. Nov 7, 2017
    #10

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    31,729
    Location:
    Canada
    Why would you want your #10 to also be a player who joins up with the strikers in a 352? You need that player to be the link between midfield and attack who can create chances. Or play a 343 with 1 main striker and 2 half wingers/roaming players behind who can again provide the link, create chances but also get in attacking positions. You don't want 2 pure poachers, never works since they never form a partnership. Think back to whenever Fergie had strike partnerships. One was always more of a creator, link up striker type while the other was more of a poacher to stretch teams in behind. Rashford and Lukaku are both that type, and that's why they look awful together. Doesn't work.
  11. Nov 7, 2017
    #11

    Home&Away Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,100
    Yep - tbh; iv heard rumours that José has been in contact with Dier who does the same thing at spurs but is more physically dominant compared to ball playing defenders but does the same thing by joining the attack; withdrawing in defence.
  12. Nov 7, 2017
    #12

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    31,729
    Location:
    Canada
    Oh I completely agree there, but it's what we're stuck with so we have to buy (or play) players who suit that. IMO those are more individualistic types who can pick up the ball and dribble past players on their own, hold the ball up, create chances without relying on team play and all that. That's why it's brainless for me to play Mkhitaryan, especially over Martial, in those games. He relies entirely on the team. Martial is pretty much our best at picking the ball up, holding it up occasionally and then dribbling past players anywhere on the pitch to open up some space. In a system that relies on the attacking players pretty much doing their own thing, but built to stay stable defensively, you need individuals up top. Griezmann isn't that, Mkhitaryan/mata aren't that. Martial/Pogba/Ibra are those types. It's why I always think we should go all out for Sanchez, since he's capable of playing anywhere in the attack, but can also do it all on his own and score out of nothing.
  13. Nov 7, 2017
    #13

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    6,252
    How many times have Rashford and Lukaku played up front together? Isn't it just Huddersfield? They linked for the goal.
  14. Nov 7, 2017
    #14

    Home&Away Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,100
    Because the game we would play wound be static formation - the number 10 has the ability to join the front two to make a 3 pronged attack as much as playing 433 would except the CAM gets to go in to the free channels created by the front two. The CAM would withdraw during the opposition counter attack to leave only the two upfront.

    Same with wingbacks - they would be able to join the attack and fall back on defence allowing us to have up to 5 players at the back and up to 5 players upfront maximum.

    This requires a false 9 and a False CB to allow us to switch from being defensive to being offensive - ie a good counter attacking team.

    Fustrates me that José wouldn't give a chance to blind as a false CB - he would be brutal there..
  15. Nov 7, 2017
    #15

    Home&Away Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,100
    Poor Smalling - José is using our central CB as our last line of defence when he should be the first line of defence instead - with the other 2; Bailey & Jones playing as they normally would in a back 4.
  16. Nov 7, 2017
    #16

    Raees Boing Boing Baggies

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    25,129
    Location:
    User requested ban till 01.06.2019
    De Gea
    Sanchez Bailly Rojo
    Semedo Pogba Matic Perisic
    Silva
    Morata Greizmann
    Something like that could have been pretty dynamic.

  17. Nov 7, 2017
    #17

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    31,729
    Location:
    Canada
    It's happened a few times. Or when Rashford's on the wing, there's not link up play at all between them. Martial shows way more even attempts at link up play with either rashford/lukaku then those two have between each other in much more time together. And yeah, that's not really link up play, Lukaku just doing a hopeful cross into Rashford to head it (especially when you consider how awful Rashford usually is in the air and how he was alone in the box). Was just a great cross, individual moment, not really by design.
    In a 4-3-3 you never play with 3 strikers. You have 2 advanced wingers who sometimes cut in, but are wingers, and then 1 main striker. Also a proper 3-5-2 like that, you need one of the midfield 3 to be the link between the strikers and midfield (mkhitaryan in theory is good for that role, but in reality he never plays to his best), and one of the strikers you want to be able to drop off the striker and play in the spaces behind. Griezmann next to lukaku, in front of mkhitaryan (in the hypothetical world where he can play at his best consistently), would work much better, though Lukaku just isn't the type of striker who is at his best with a striker partner. Griezmann behind Rashford and Lukaku? Nah. None of those 3 are creators and you'd have 3 players waiting for the wingers to cross it endlessly or all the creative burden falling on Pogba again.

    I said it in the summer, but if the plan was to sign Griezmann, then Morata was the striker to go for. Since it's lukaku, what we need is quality wide players (Martial to develop on the left is fine), and then an actual winger to provide a similar level of threat on the right wing. Along with fullbacks who can actually create as well. Blind occasionally has performances where he makes you think he can do that at left back, but then Mourinho doesn't play him often enough. Valencia I like a lot but his end product is obviously shite. And is our only player on that wing. Then in the middle you would want someone else who can create next to pogba, while being a central mid. Modric, Isco, De bruyne, eriksen, etc.. Someone like that, next to Pogba and in front of Matic is pretty much the way to go to get the best out of everyone (specifically our 75m striker that we just bought).
  18. Nov 7, 2017
    #18

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,508
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.
    7 new players at cost of 300m?, not realistic.
  19. Nov 7, 2017
    #19

    Sammyjunn Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    10,299
    Location:
    In Smalling's pocket (as every other person)
    Perisic is not a wing back, we'd be incredibly vulnerable at that side, and Griezmann is an excellent player but not a playmaker like someone like Eriksen or Hazard is.
  20. Nov 7, 2017
    #20

    Raees Boing Boing Baggies

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    25,129
    Location:
    User requested ban till 01.06.2019
    Well if Griezmann/Perisic had gone through and we had signed Davison Sanchez instead of Lindelof, Morata instead of Lukaku .. we'd have spend upwards of £200m anyway.

    Only additional purchases there are Semedo and Bernado Silva. Those two are optional. Could easily stick Valencia and Mata in there instead.
  21. Nov 7, 2017
    #21

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,508
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.
    Jose couldn't get his 4th player last season, 7 was not possible.
  22. Nov 7, 2017
    #22

    devilish Phil Neville's #1 fan

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    45,848
    I couldn't see us getting both Griezmann and Perisic TBH. I think we would have gone to a 4-3-3 system with Pogba, Herrera and Matic in CM + Griezmann & Mkhitaryan supporting Lukaku upfront
  23. Nov 7, 2017
    #23

    deafepl Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,651
    Yeah, realistic, it is equivalent to 2014 spending based on our revenue ratio
  24. Nov 7, 2017
    #24

    Raees Boing Boing Baggies

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    25,129
    Location:
    User requested ban till 01.06.2019
    Agree with that.. but this whole thread is built on the premise of coulda, woulda and shoulda so I am suspending belief with that lineup.

    With Woodward on transfers, it is a miracle we make any signings tbh,
  25. Nov 7, 2017
    #25

    deafepl Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,651
    Think you are overreacting. 1/3 of our squad have their contract expiring in 2018, we will need to make a major transfer window. We saved 150m last summer for next summer
  26. Nov 7, 2017
    #26

    P-Nut0712 fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    11,039
    Location:
    Oldham, Greater Manchester
    I disagree about the Griezmann part but mostly agree on the rest.

    He's made his name playing in a counter attacking set up so there's no reason to believe he wouldn't be able to do the same should he end up here.
  27. Nov 7, 2017
    #27

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,508
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.


    I don't know how you could possibly know that.
  28. Nov 7, 2017
    #28

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,508
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.
    You're forgetting that the Glazers aren't going to spend exactly to ratios, they are businessmen who like to maximise profit.
  29. Nov 7, 2017
    #29

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    31,729
    Location:
    Canada
    He's made his name in a counter attacking set up, I agree, but the striker in front of him was always one who supported for him pretty much. Griezmann the main guy, and then Torres or whoever else used to help him a lot in terms of link up play and keeping defenders occupied. Morata would've been perfect to partner Griezmann with. Lukaku? Not the type, since he's best when he's the main guy to get goals. Ibra would've done well with Griezmann as well, as he obviously has excellent hold up and link up play and likes dropping deep so Griezmann could make the runs in behind.

    Also Atletico have always had a counter attacking set up. United in these big away games haven't even had that. We just tried to turn the game into a grind and barely had a plan when we had the ball.
  30. Nov 7, 2017
    #30

    deafepl Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,651
    We are still making a profit of over 70 million this year and 80 million last year. Our revenues are still surging. Glazers don't care about it as long as long as United can stay as a top club, not another club like Newcastle club.

    We just sold Rooney to Everton for free and agreed to pay half of his wage. We were trying to buy out Grezimann's release clause for 100m and offer inter Milian for 40m which could take us to break a record transfer window spending. We bought Pogba and Lukaku for £165m combined. Mourinho is one of the highest paid coaches in the world. We are one of highest top 3 spending club in the world since post SAF era so do you think Glazers wouldn't be happy to afford that?

    However, if that's case, we could have sold Herrea, Fellaini, Luke Shaw and Blind that have a contract expiring in 2018 and replace them with new players but we didn't so basically we are going to let them go free in 2018 if they didn't sign an extension contracts with us.

    Yeah, 300m+ looking realistically for our budget next year and we could spend more if necessary.
  31. Nov 7, 2017
    #31

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,532
    Location:
    Player Performance Threads
    That would have been such a great team. Perhaps even without Bernardo, could have had Martial and Rashford interchanging upfront in a dynamic 3.

    De Gea
    Sanchez Bailly Rojo
    Semedo Pogba Matic Perisic
    Griezmann
    Morata Rashford
  32. Nov 7, 2017
    #32

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    6,252
    Pretty sure it was just one game Rashford and Lukaku played up front together. Seems like Martial links more because he comes inside more often. First goal of the season was Rashford to Lukaku.

    Mourinho wanted him to play that role though.
  33. Nov 7, 2017
    #33

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,508
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.
    You are being very optimistic if you think we will spend 300m next summer.
  34. Nov 7, 2017
    #34

    deafepl Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,651
    Mark my words.
  35. Nov 7, 2017
    #35

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    6,252
    300M is a stretch. 150-200M maybe. Even 200M is optimistic.
  36. Nov 7, 2017
    #36

    AshRK Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,716
    Location:
    Canada
    Nice lineup, but knowing our injury record we would have lost Silva with Pogba and Morata would have also found a way to get injured and we would have been back with Fellaini and Young crossing to each other. It would be best for the team in the long run if both of them are sold.
  37. Nov 7, 2017
    #37

    AshRK Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,716
    Location:
    Canada
    I do not think we are in a bad position like some feel. One more window of 200 million, we could have a solid starting 11. Our midfield is sorted for next 3 years, our center defense also looks pretty solid. ANd we also have a 24 year old Lukaku who will only improve (Sad people just dont rate him) . Rashford and Martial will be year wiser and will perform even better. If we go and get a quality number 10 and two fullbacks like how city did, we are in for a treat.
  38. Nov 7, 2017
    #38

    TRA007 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    I dont like this idea of playing good only if you have good players, imo we have a starting XI( if played to full strength) capable enough to win and play good football. Its just that the manager has not done anything tactically remarkable to address the current situation. If he starts thinking even a bit out of the box, I am sure he will find better outcome with this squad. This policy of blindly spending 200M every window is really annoying.
  39. Nov 7, 2017
    #39

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    6,252
    We were doing ok until Pogba and Fellaini both got injured. Griezmann & Perisic would be massive upgrades on Mkhi and Young, and I think that's what Mourinho really wanted. I agree you don't have to keep spending to be a good team. I think we are one already, we just have injuries atm. 4 points from spurs, chelsea and liverpool is not bad or anything suprising.
  40. Nov 7, 2017
    #40

    Norris Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    6,607
    Ah, I see the Perisic at LWB opinions are back.