What's wrong with our players?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Tomuś, May 16, 2019.

  1. May 16, 2019
    #1

    Tomuś Nani is crap, I tell you!

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    I mean the players. Not the structure and other outside-the-pitch matters.

    We may have all the problems outside it but I refuse to believe that the main reason behind not being able to beat the minnows lies there. After all, it's a set of players who go out there and I doubt they're influenced by the number of scouts, Woodward being incompetent etc. during a football match.

    Started with Moyes, who was out of his depth and lacked respect from our seniors. Fair enough I guess, given he tried to convince our WC defenders they should play like Jagielka.

    Then Van Gaal, who made a seemingly huge mistake of telling the players to read something that doesn't only contain pictures and actually demands some reading comprehension. The players could also feel it's too possession-based (which we don't like) so they could easily dump him out of the club.

    In came Mourinho. Fun while he was winning something but then started having conflicts with some of them. Again, the players could feel we'll side with them in the long run as we like being on the front foot most of the time during games. Their biggest win so far, given Mourinho's stature in the game.

    Ole's at the wheel, then. Or was, while we were winning. They probably decided that was the time to show how right they were wanting Mourinho out and that there would be no excuses if they didn't suddenly start playing. Giving a feck or two was too much for them to keep for more than two months, though, but now are at risk of finally NOT having our backing as we love Ole (see G. Neville's spot on comments). Possibility of running out of gas is there, but is it enough to cause results like that?

    One way to look at the problem is that we are badly run and the players' culture and power got out of hand. Another is that periods like that happen at all huge clubs but the players are professional enough to at least show minimum of commitment and reach the minimum goals (see Madrid).

    The quality is lacking, I know, but not to an extent of notoriously not getting TOP 4, not beating fecking Huddersfields, losing 4-0 at Goodison etc. It sounds far-fetched to say that our players, who were star men or at least v.good in the last WC, first being picked, then playing great football are not good enough to represent a decent level in club football.

    It's basically another way of looking at the problem. We all know we're badly run but I'd like to focus on the on-pitch workers, their attitude and the cause of it.
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  2. May 16, 2019
    #2

    Sir Scott McToMinay Full Member

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    Too many mercenaries who came here for a good paycheck and perhaps a trophy or two.
    We’re just a regular club now post SAF, people say no one is bigger than the club, well he was.
    Not only that, we’re a badly run Hollywood club with no real identity, just a rich history and a lot of fans in Asia.

    Need to assemble a squad of players who want to be here for the right reasons, as well as the quality to play for such a club.
  3. May 16, 2019
    #3

    Tomuś Nani is crap, I tell you!

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    That's why I think we need to take the Spurs' route, however weird it sounds for the older of us. Taking punts on raw materials/hungry potentials on the rise.

    Pity it's a vicious circle, though, and we probably think it's impossible as we need to get to the top ASAP and therefore, need to sign star names (mostly washed up ones as it happens).

    You can sense that feeling in the discussion about Daniel James.
  4. May 16, 2019
    #4

    Ekeke Full Member

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    A lack of hard work and desire. Our big name players have the talent but don't have the same effort and determination that you see at the top clubs. Talent alone doesnt get you anything.
  5. May 16, 2019
    #5

    Tomuś Nani is crap, I tell you!

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    I share this view but it still doesn't explain why they're all top pros and star men for their countries. Unless they can just turn it on for a month when the Euros/WC is on.
  6. May 16, 2019
    #6

    Jeppers7 Full Member

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    In some respects the players are at fault. Now I know you want this kept to the players but here is my issue.....

    If we buy the 11 Liverpool players that beat Barca 4-0....we wouldn’t beat Barca 4-0, because the system isn’t in place at United for them to do it.
  7. May 16, 2019
    #7

    Sir Scott McToMinay Full Member

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    I completely agree, we need a solid foundation of hungry and ultra motivated players who really want to be here, then we can sign a big name or two, but you have to have a proper base first.
    Otherwise it’s a waste of money and the player’s career to sign a world class player and surround him with a mess.
  8. May 16, 2019
    #8

    Tomuś Nani is crap, I tell you!

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    What do you understand under 'the system', though? What makes them play better on the pitch there than here?
  9. May 16, 2019
    #9

    AshRK Full Member

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    They are too complacent and not that hungry enough. The likes of Young being our captain and then we have people like lingard pretending to be leader for young player is worrying. The more so called talented players like Pogba have just given up and must be thinking what I am doing here surrounded by some bang average players. Easy money for him and others.
  10. May 16, 2019
    #10

    purgethefallen New Member

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    Rather we'd build a strong foundation in the next window or two and then add the icing on the cake in the following window.
  11. May 16, 2019
    #11

    RedDevilUnited369 New Member

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    The badge is too big for them...coupled with bad management above the squad manager.
  12. May 16, 2019
    #12

    Infra-red Full Member

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    They are lazy and not especially talented and the club have demonstrated that they are more important than the manager, so there's no need to actually do what he says - if you don't like him, he'll be fired soon enough.

    They are also on enormous contracts with salaries far exceeding their actual worth, and so have little motivation to improve any further.
  13. May 16, 2019
    #13

    Ekeke Full Member

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    I mean, Pogba is but he's surrounded by hard working quality players like Matuidi and Kante around him. He also just looked like he had more desire for France at the world cup and was willing to do a good job defensively for that tournament, whereas United he doesnt put in that effort.

    Martial doesnt play for France at the moment. Lukaku has some quality players who are working hard around him so he gets some chances up front for Belgium

    And I think with players like these, when they see other good players around them putting a hard shift in it'll give them the kick in the butt to try harder themselves. I think we see a little bit of that when Ander is in the team, some other players around him start to look like they're trying more. But obviously that only worked while we were in form and hes gone now anyway. But that remains my big concern about the team. We already lacked that and now the one player who helped us make up for it is gone. We need someone else to be that heart of the team thats going to make us harder to play against
  14. May 16, 2019
    #14

    Tomuś Nani is crap, I tell you!

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    Sometimes I wish we were a bit like Madrid and started voicing strong criticism in the stands. We are too loving at times so maybe that's one of the reasons for complacency.
  15. May 16, 2019
    #15

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    The root of our problem is complacency. Its the reason why we're filled with players who are not good enough, why those who are good enough are not giving their 100% for us and why we keep attracting players whose career is shot. How can a player take the manager seriously with someone as useless as Jones can stay with the club for 8 long years and still get a 4+1 year contract?

    We need more ruthlessness. No more players who can do the job, no more excuses, no more servants of the club, nothing of this sort. If someone can't produce the goods week in week out then he should be out.
  16. May 16, 2019
    #16

    Tomuś Nani is crap, I tell you!

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    Spot on.
  17. May 16, 2019
    #17

    el3mel Full Member

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    Half of them are crap and the other half don't have the mentality to fight for the team, arrogant for nothing and think they have God given right to win matches without putting effort.

    A toxic generation which its only solution is to sell and replace.
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  18. May 16, 2019
    #18

    GazTheLegend Full Member

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    Statistically speaking, our players are shit.

    Martial: runs 8km a game. Work rate problems.

    Lukaku: can’t control a football. Otherwise, although he doesn’t run as much as he should, generally wants to improve his all round game. With a ful ole fitness regime we might still have a world class player in there.

    Rashford: has had 40 shots on goal this season - has scored only 10 goals from them. That conversion % isn’t good enough.

    Pogba: Best player statistically in our team.

    Lingard: runs more than any other forward in the top 6 but has 0 assists and 1 goal in 26 games which is an absolutely atrocious return.

    De Gea’s save percentage this season has been poor too, but last season he put up a goalkeeping-Messi sort of number of saves

    So yeah they’re just all playing shit football tbh
  19. May 16, 2019
    #19

    fallengt Full Member

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    For the sake of argument. How would Sterling do in this team? He's the only City's attacker whom I don't rate at all despite doing so much for them.
    Put Sterling in this team and he'd be as good as Rashford(in his bad form).

    The lack of consistent game plan hurting everyone. Not saying player are faultless but I'm not fully convinced it's all their fault. We went from possession based football to defensive based football to Oleball, whatever that is, within few years yet they've always been clueless in the final third.
  20. May 16, 2019
    #20

    abdo99 Full Member

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    As much as these players isn't Man Utd quality and full of mediocre they shouldn't be be outplayed by Watford, Bournemouth and midtable clubs. Good coaching is making other teams stronger and we have 11 individual playing disjointed football. We have not been coached well for years and always expect one players or two to make difference.
  21. May 16, 2019
    #21

    Reddy Rederson Full Member

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    Doesnt matter what the system is when you dont try. Liverpool pressed the feck out the game, they didnt do it with silky moves or total football or any other bullshit buzz term. They just went at barca constantly. You stick our 11 into liverpool with that system they wont beat barca. Because they wont fight for the club or the fans the way those liverpool players do.
  22. May 16, 2019
    #22

    BrianLy New Member

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    I think mercenary is misused here. I'd happily accept a few mercenaries with high standards who are prepared to join us for a couple of years and operate consistently at high performance. We attracted a bunch of players who were happy to come to United and coast on a high wage which is pretty unfair to true mercenaries who care deeply about their craft and know that the rewards flow from that rather than the other way around.

    I wonder about the many players we have passed over in the past six years. Guys who never got a chance to play at United, but would have put an actual shift in. Invariably a lot of them would have given 2-3 years at United, if it meant they never played again. We've brought in players who are considered "cool" (based in Football Manager, YouTube, people with know ability to judge talent in football or any talent in any area of life), who played the right game to get in with the popular agents, and players who'd never trade a few years at United over being able extract the maximum from United and future employers.
  23. May 16, 2019
    #23

    RedFish Full Member

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    Toxoplasmosis?
  24. May 16, 2019
    #24

    BrianLy New Member

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    Aren't the same agents lining up with the next set of the same? The toxicity extends to the hangers on in football that persist beyond a generation of players. We need to stop engaging with them, but I worry we've got agents in their 40s who have another 20 years of peddling a production line of crap that our disconnected leadership, who are only interested in being "cool", will lap up.
  25. May 16, 2019
    #25

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots Scout

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    This for sure. Too many players are simply not good enough (DDG and Pogba aside, although both not consistent enough at the moment).

    And this too. A lot of us at some point will have been in some sort of team that's hard working and driven, and with good morale. It's not easy to achieve and takes a good set up around them, everyone being on a similar wavelength, and good management from whatever is above you to drive the morale and make sure everyone is happy with the goal they're working towards.

    Even more of us will have been in a bad team. No one likes the direction, there may be some people (or most/all) not good enough or driven to make it work, and everyone ends up slacking or in a slump, or at best just doing enough to make things tick over. The only way to change it is changing the set up and recruiting better.

    I think the problem with these players is they're coming into a shitty team so they can't perform as well and aren't motivated to perform well either. We need a big change through the team to change it. One or two big name mercenaries would be fine coming in to a quality hard working team.
  26. May 16, 2019
    #26

    abdo99 Full Member

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    We have plenty of hard workers that brings nothing to the table. There's nothing suggesting lack of workrate is fault of individual when we have DM who can't tackle or fullback that gets beaten by any decent winger or CB that can't engage in duel without making fool of himself. The problem is we hang onto these deadwoods whereas all the other top clubs has shipped out theirs and replaced them with quality.
  27. May 16, 2019
    #27

    GiddyUp Full Member

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    Liverpool were beaten 3-0 by Barcelona 2 weeks before. I've watched these players fail to do the basics so many time the last few years that has nothing got to do with the systems. We have a collection of weak minded individuals that don't really give a shit about anything but a paycheck.
  28. May 16, 2019
    #28

    Ekeke Full Member

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    What? Thats exactly the issue. Matic's job is to protect the backline and win the ball. If he isnt doing that he isnt working hard enough at his job. It doesnt help that we also have players like Martial and Pogba who dont put much effort into pressing and making things difficult for the opposition, again thats a lack of hard work.
  29. May 16, 2019
    #29

    GiddyUp Full Member

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    So what you are saying is the players have failed in multiple systems so it must be the systems fault. No plan from the multiple coaches this club has had in the last 6 seasons tells Young to put in a poor cross over and over, or Lukaku to try and control a ball like it's a plastic bag in a hurricane, or Chris Smalling to get the shits 40 yards from his goal. We've allowed these players to steal a living and we have to stop with these excuses.
    By the way, Sterling would fecking eat Rashfords dinner every fecking day if he was here. Rashford can't even head the fecking ball. I would march Rashford over to the Etihad with 50 mil in his pockets for Sterling, who even in his inconsistent youth was making a mockery of our defense.
    No more excuses for shit, lazy and inconsistent football.
  30. May 16, 2019
    #30

    Kill 'em all Pastor of Muppets

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    Our squad is littered with average players who wouldn't start for some clubs that are below us in the table and our fans decide to take it up on Pogba instead of looking at the real problems like Rashford stinking up the number 9 position. That's a start.
  31. May 16, 2019
    #31

    flappyjay Full Member

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    I am hoping this becomes our new focus too. But from the looks of it our fans wouldn't stand for it. As you said the Daniel James story is an example. Whilst the Dybala, Koulibaly threads show how much people still want the instant fixes.
  32. May 16, 2019
    #32

    beergod Full Member

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    Too many players who have "made it" just by being here.
  33. May 16, 2019
    #33

    Jostein Hjorteset New Member

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    Liverpool and Man City have set up to have at least two decent level players competing for each position. The "star player" approach seems to not work more often than most. Unless the "star" is a role model and pushing himself at the same time. Give a player an undroppable status and the manager limited power and it all unravels. And if key players are influencing others when focus is elsewhere, team form drops like a rock. That is what I think happend at United (Herrera and Pogba were the core of the team in good times and bad times).
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  34. May 16, 2019
    #34

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    There's nowt wrong with most of our players, in fact most are seriously talented, just get them at peak fitness, play them in a system they understand and stick to it, none of this oh it hasn't worked for two games so we'll try something different bollox and somehow instil confidence in them. Then watch them fly.
  35. May 16, 2019
    #35

    RedDevilUnited369 New Member

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    Also we have players left over from 3 failed management appointments. No manager has had his own team since SAF left.

    Players were bought for different styles of play by Moyes, LVG and Jose.
  36. May 16, 2019
    #36

    SAFMUTD Full Member

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    We have overpaid mediocre players and then we reward them with bigger and better contracts everytime, thats whats wrong with them.
  37. May 16, 2019
    #37

    SCJY New Member

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    I’d equate the term “mercenary” with that of “bounty hunter”. You aren’t quite a mercenary if you don’t perform, and you’re not much of a bounty hunter if you repeatedly fail to wipe out your target.

    I have no problem at all with having mercenaries at the club. I welcome them. But the current bunch of so-called mercenaries have less fight in them than a rose petal, and they’re getting rewarded for it week-in, week-out and with bumper new contracts to boot.

    Sanchez is on a reported £75k appearance bonus. What kind of rubbish is that? Is that supposed to make him want to make an appearance? Maybe it should, but when he’s on 300k+ as a basic wage, I doubt he gives two tosses whether he makes an appearance.

    With all that being said: I have no real idea what is going with the players themselves, but one thing I do know is that it’s going to be a very long road back to the glory days. At the very least, 4 more years + 1.
  38. May 16, 2019
    #38

    HTG Full Member

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    Well, the chaos in your club simply extends to the pitch. It happens at all sorts of clubs. Hamburg are a great example, but obviously on a different level. They spent loads of money and had some quality in their squad. At least enough to easily remain in the Bundesliga. They still got relegated. When you have to play for a dysfunctional club, there is a certain pressure, a certain atmosphere of uncertainty, that eventually catches up with your players. In an environment where there is a lack of competence and structure, players tend to lose their confidence and start performing badly. If these patterns aren't broken apart, they will basically repeat themselves throughout every season. Playing for United right now is just incredibly difficult. Everything you have to do is harder there than at other clubs. While you will hate the comparision, if the same players would play for Liverpool right now, they'd perform much better. Simply because the atmosphere is better. Because it's more fun.
    Right now, you lack competence, structure and any sort of coherent and somewhat intelligent squad management. On top of that, you're clueless when it comes to choosing and supporting coaches. Due to that, your work environment is now fecked up and players don't like playing for you, they do it solely, because of the money.
    It's just not fun to be at United right now and everything comes much harder there. That's a serious issue and can only be solved, by changing the structure of the decision making process, the people in charge and by holding the owners accountable.
  39. May 16, 2019
    #39

    L1nk Full Member

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    We reward mediocrity, I could understand new highly paid contracts if these players were performing week in week out. But they don't and they haven't for seasons yet they keep getting bumper contracts, why?

    Literally no motivation in this.
  40. May 16, 2019
    #40

    SCJY New Member

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    Quality post from an outsider’s perspective. Someone who doesn’t have a horse in the race. The premise of this thread really is a fool’s errand because while the players are a major problem, the owners and structure is an even bigger one. The “old boys” mentality needs to be stamped out, and the only way I can see it happening is if the club is sold. How are the Glazers still not happy with a 4-8X ROI? Manchester United is a depreciating asset at this point. Maybe they’re happy with just the income they’re making... but please God, let the club be sold and out of their greedy mitts.