Where are the goals going to come from? Part 2

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Twisted_Woody, Aug 13, 2009.

  1. Aug 13, 2009
    #1

    Twisted_Woody Full Member

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    I can?t believe we?re at this again. In 2006, when Ruud left, the big question was ?where are the goals going to come from?? We got an answer didn?t we? That answer was everywhere.

    Now Ronaldo has, ironically, moved on to the same place Ruud did. A direct comparison is pointless as this is a different team than the one Ruud left, but there are still a few similarities such as the promising youth players coming through the system.

    Youth Players

    This is probably the first time in recent memory that I can identify so many youth players who look like they could be first teamers in a few years. Unfortunately we need some ?here and now? goal scorers. When Ruud left, Ronaldo was already an established first team figure, as were many of the other players who stepped up. This time around, the younger players who have been on the fringes and look to make their breakthrough this season also have to step up. I do not envy them their task.

    Welbeck

    I?m going to point fingers now. Welbeck will make an impact this year if he listens to Sir Alex. I noticed in his performance against Hull City at the end of last season he looked excellent, except he didn?t know when to pass or shoot. If this improves he will be a contender for a starting place.

    Macheda

    Now we have ?Kiko? Macheda. Someone is going to have to refresh my memory but I can?t remember the last time a player as young as seventeen had so much pressure on them. Oh wait yes I can ? Wayne Rooney. Macheda isn?t even half the player Rooney is today but hopefully with some development and time he?ll make a similar impact. He?s a bit slow, and his first touch is weak. During preseason he scored a goal that had many posters excited, but for me all I could see was that he dithered on the ball before the shot. In a competitive fixture this would not have gone unpunished. In short, he has a lot of raw ability, but has a lot to learn. I have hope, but next season will be more telling. This season will be another year of development and learning and the supporters will have to have patience, as will Kiko.

    Tosic

    It?s time to have a look at Mr. Tosic. This signing confuses me. He looked excellent for Serbia?s U-21 team this summer. He had a few nice moves in preseason, notably against Valencia and a goal during the Asia tour. I still can?t figure how a 21 year old can be so light weight. In terms of his build, he looks similar to Ronaldo did when he arrived. To compete in the English Premier League, and in the Champions League you need to have some serious muscle to avoid being hounded off the ball easily. He needs to work on that before he has any chance of a starting place. Anyway, feel free to post your thoughts as I don?t know what to think. As I said above, it confuses me.

    So those are the most promising youth players who, realistically, will participate in the attack. I know Fabio and Rafael will dash down the field and contribute but they are, at least on paper, defenders.

    Senior Squad

    Our current ?senior? attack is looking half decent. Rooney seems ready to resume his normal service, hopefully with more goals. Owen stands ready in the wings and I?m sure he can perform at the highest level if his body cooperates. The player that I?m curious about, and that I?ll probably write a future blog post about, is Dimitar Berbatov.

    Berbatov

    Last season I was less than impressed with him. Last season was a constant battle between the Tevez supporters and Berbatov supporters. So I think it?s time for another prediction; Berbatov is going to be one of the players who steps up. Some here are pegging him for an immense season. I don?t think that will happen. I just think he will fill a part of the void. I wasn?t impressed with him during preseason but his performance during the Chelsea game had to have been his best in a United shirt. He clearly has the ability; all he needs is to increase his speed, slightly improve his finishing (he should have scored vs. Chelsea) and to maintain his desire for the entire match. I felt last season, at times, his desire to play flagged in comparison to Tevez. If he does improve then he will be one of the players who shoulders the burden created by Ronaldo?s departure.

    I was just thinking that if you combine Berbatov?s footwork and touches with Valencia?s speed and power then you have a player in the Ronaldo mold. These two, properly combined, could be the right fit for the attack.

    Owen

    I feel for Owen. If Rooney-Berbatov-Valencia click then he will be a bit-part player this season (at least in big games). My instinct tells me that Berbatov will improve on everything but his desire, which will leave room for Owen to make an impact, as I doubt Sir Alex will allow a half hearted Berbatov to play in place of Owen who wants to get back in the England squad for the World Cup.

    I haven?t even touched on the rest of the squad. I?m not going to as posters never read a wall of text so I?ll leave it at this. For the past two years we?ve had an out and out star in Ronaldo. We?re back to being a team that relies on every squad member for a contribution. I think if the rest of the squad stays the same or improves on their performances last season, and the above mentioned players make those improvements, then United will be in fine shape.

    Bring on the season and bring on your thoughts.
  2. Aug 13, 2009
    #2

    Twisted_Woody Full Member

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    Bugger, ever apostrophe is now a question mark.

    EDIT: There is a character set conflict between the blog and redcafe.

    The_Lizard in the newbies has some ideas I believe he's gonna post.
  3. Aug 13, 2009
    #3

    Flying Fox Full Member

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    Losing Ronaldo and Tevez may have lead many people to question where our goals are going to come from. While this is a loss, and a big one at that, I feel our team as it stands is more rounded, with no clear dependency on one player for that 'moment of magic'.

    Sure, we don't know where our goals are going to come from this season, but on the flipside, neither do the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and the rest of the PL, something which I think can play out to our advantage in the long run.
  4. Aug 13, 2009
    #4

    Twisted_Woody Full Member

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    They don't?
  5. Aug 13, 2009
    #5

    Flying Fox Full Member

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    Sorry, that wasn't so clear.

    I was referring to our squad depth, the amount of players we have that can pop up with crucial goals is a massive benefit.

    Rooney, Berba, Owen, Obertan, Valencia, Owen, Fletcher et al, pretty much the whole team (Anderson aside) could be counted on to contribute, rather than Ronaldo having the bear the brunt of this responsibility. Teams won't know who to mark to gain a hold in the game and if they mark one player, another player might come along with the winning goal.
  6. Aug 13, 2009
    #6

    Lailiani (Sadly not) Banned

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    I don't think we are doomed after Cristiano's departure, because Berbatov will probably score more goals than last season, as he will no longer play that deep and he probably has adapted to our team. Players who had to track back to open up spaces for Cristiano might get into more attacking positions, too.

    But let's not fool ourselves, we won't get any advantage from the fact that we don't have a certain person on which we relied on. It's not like they could really mark Ronaldo effectively - he was to good for them. And when they concentrated on him, he indirectly also opened up spaces and opportunities for our other players.
  7. Aug 13, 2009
    #7

    anything about now MUFC lad living in a matriel world

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    While i agree that we are definitely weaker without a certain person, I also feel that his drawing defenders out of position effect is a bit overrated by some. Yes it is one of his qualities on the pitch, but his limited creativity and even more limited passing doesn't really take full advantage of it.

    I do think that someone like Berbatov could try the Ronaldo role. I think he was doing just that in the Chelsea match, he was drifting everywhere and even sprinted (!) after the ball. His close control is better than Ronaldo, he is far far more intelligent, and if he does the same thing as him (drawing 2-3 defenders towards him), he has teh creativity to slip the ball out to Rooney or whoever. Where he lacks in pace, he makes up for it in exquisite technique. I have a feeling it's going to be his year, he could step up and become our playmaker.
  8. Aug 13, 2009
    #8

    SharkyMcShark Horrified

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    Sopt blog hogging you spastic.

    Anyway, everywhere. Again.
  9. Aug 13, 2009
    #9

    Twisted_Woody Full Member

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    Kinnell what's that all about. Are you drunk?

    Blog hogging? There are only two of us blogging.
  10. Aug 13, 2009
    #10

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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    Space...they're going to come from space




    ...sorry, I'll give you a proper answer when I'm sober....but I'm pretty sure it'll still be space
  11. Aug 13, 2009
    #11

    cesc's_mullet Get a haircut Hippy!

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    By everywhere you mean Ronaldo, right?

    Wasn't that exactly why this debate's been brought up in the first place? Because the midfield doesn't seem to score, and Berbatov and Rooney haven't exactly been prolific?
  12. Aug 13, 2009
    #12

    SharkyMcShark Horrified

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    In 06/07, after we'd had "Where will the goals come from mk1" we had 15 goals from the defence, 54 from the middle of the park, and 51 from the strikers.

    The point is that we're capable of spreading the goals around to compensate for the loss of a big scorer (and in the process often unveil the next big scorer)
  13. Aug 13, 2009
    #13

    RedThaiDevils#7 Full Member

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    Agree with Sharky, the goals will come which I'm certain of. It's just exciting waiting to see who's going to score really. Owen will reach 20, you heard it here first.
  14. Aug 13, 2009
    #14

    Christofaux Full Member

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    I think ive read it about 20 times so far on this forum.
  15. Aug 13, 2009
    #15

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

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    We wont really miss Tevez. But Ronaldo's ability to pop up from everywhere and to make something out of the blue, someting really exceptionel, will be missed.

    We'll see who will step up, I just hope there is someone :)
  16. Aug 13, 2009
    #16

    SittingBull That's great and all, but what is Sergio Canales u

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    Too much have been made over the losses of Ronaldo and Tevez. Never rated Tevez as a striker. Not the best of finisher, header, dribbler, passer, but a good player overrall. I agree with SAF, that he is way overrated, and couldn't be rely upon to lead the front line. As for Ronaldo, i have said it once, and will said it again. We made him the player he is. The goals he scored, and the space he has, is down to the other 9 outfield players playing towards his strength. Rooney's progress has been hampered due to his unselfishness to play to Ronaldo, out of position, etc. In fact, Ronaldo didn't even have to bear any defensive duties during his tenure with us, as all he has to do was to stay upfront to wait for the ball. Currently, we do not have that luxury, but we will revert back to the traditional 4-4-2, where the goals will be evenly spread out. We will still be among the top scoring team in the league, this i have absolutely no doubts about. This is the season which will prove to be the break through for a lot of players. Rooney will be the player we had expected, Berbatov among the top scorers, Anderson to be a regular scoring midfielder, and the two young strikers to established themselves as squad players in Manchester United and u21 strikers.
  17. Aug 13, 2009
    #17

    RedThaiDevils#7 Full Member

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    Great post. Basically summarizes everything. Hope Anderson CAN turn into a scoring midfield like you claim, I have all the faith in him + everyone in our team.
  18. Aug 13, 2009
    #18

    Twisted_Woody Full Member

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    Nicely put!!
  19. Aug 13, 2009
    #19

    Tibs Full Member

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    Where will the goals come from? Aguero, duh..

    On a serious note though, I fully expect Owen to bang them in with ease..against Valencia (the team), he had four golden chances that on any other day would have got him atleast 2 goals.

    Nani is going to score goals and create goals, but everybody will still hate him (probably until he gets a MJ song chant)

    Tosic scored twice last night for Serbia say SSN in a 3-1 win
  20. Aug 13, 2009
    #20

    Odorous_One Full Member

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    Frankly, I'm not focused on where our goals will come from. Just last term, even with Ronaldo, Utd had very long stretches where the attack stagnated. The reasons were aplenty, but I think the biggest reason was/is the midfield. If Utd can boss the midfield, I have no doubt that the players we have now can easily get an abundance of chances that will eventually result in the goals that we need.
  21. Aug 13, 2009
    #21

    Addis Banned

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    We still have a vast array of attacking talent, while all may not be clinical goal poachers, you can bet we'll still create chances every match. It's up to the whole team to chip in with more.
  22. Aug 13, 2009
    #22

    Cling Bak Hi, I'm Barry Scott

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    It's the same doubts as 2006 indeed.

    There was an online blog by someone from another forum I used to go on (AHFC), his name was MonkeyBoy or something... Can't remember.

    Anyway, he started it as we sold Ruud and confidently predicted that we'd get the required goals without him. He updated a graph every week to show it, every player having a column showing their goals scored in all comps and the very end column called 'Missing Ruud?'. That column was added to if:

    - A player contributed more goals to this season than last. Which could be:
    a) A new signing scoring, i.e. Owen, Valencia
    b) A current player surpassing last season's total, i.e. Rooney scored 20 goals last season, so his 21st, 22nd etc would be added.

    Obviously we smashed it with Rooney scoring more and Ronaldo hammering in 23-odd, as well as Solskjaer and Saha getting plenty.

    If anyone is clever enough to set this up for 09/10 I reckon they should. For Ronaldo or even Ronaldo and Tevez, perhaps. I think we'll do better than people expect.
  23. Aug 13, 2009
    #23

    ooeat0meoo Member of the Muppet Empire

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    I've got faith that Berbatov and Rooney will step up. The expressed enthusiasm is the right direction. Still very concerned about the support. It will all depend on the midfield getting accurate passing and crosses into these two.

    Not so sure about Owen, as he might take a few months to settle in.

    Fletcher has appeared to turn the corner in his attitude. Since last Spring he looked to be coming on the pitch with more focus, determination, and overall confidence.
  24. Aug 13, 2009
    #24

    Tibs Full Member

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    We have to find +30 goals from the team...

    Rooney +5 if he plays upfront more

    Berba+10 if he is upfront

    Nani+4

    Valencia 4

    Owen 15

    The + added onto last seasons totals....Nani should surpass his by more than 4 in all honesty though..

    We will be fine
  25. Aug 13, 2009
    #25

    Ekeke Full Member

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    With some luck we'll be able to score about as many as last season. Which was our lowest total for quite some time.
  26. Aug 13, 2009
    #26

    Doevle Full Member

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    I think we will be much better in attack this season as compared to last.
  27. Aug 13, 2009
    #27

    Maciek Arrogant prick who is best ignored

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    I expect 10 goals from Valencia this season and I know he'll do it easily.
  28. Aug 13, 2009
    #28

    Trigg aka Trippin_Stoned

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    Valencia is capable of scoring more than 4 goals thats for sure. He's got quite a venomous shot in his locker.
  29. Aug 13, 2009
    #29

    rednev God Save My Gracious Queen

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    That's what we expected when Anderson arrived, and we've yet to see one goal from him.

    It's all very well to allocate a certain amount of goals we expect each player to score, but in reality we just don't know. We can't rely on the likes of Valenica (someone whose goal record was very low for a winger at Wigan) to chip in with lots of goals. 10 would be a massive ask.

    Rooney, Berbatov and Owen are the only players we can realistically expect at least 10 from.
  30. Aug 13, 2009
    #30

    SittingBull That's great and all, but what is Sergio Canales u

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    Sometimes, we cannot judge a player based on his statistics from his playing days with a smaller club. A lot of players fulfill their full potential when playing with better players on a bigger stage. Adebayor, Robin Van Persie, David Villa, are all fine examples.
  31. Aug 13, 2009
    #31

    Trigg aka Trippin_Stoned

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    I understand what you're saying but I still don't think its unrealistic to expect Valencia to chip in with more than 4 goals. He's playing in a considerably better team who I'm sure will create a lot more chances than Wigan did while he was there.

    Anderson is a mystery for me. I watched the open training day on MUTV before the Community Shield and he technique was fantastic in the shooting drills. Controlled and powerful, something, for whatever reason we don't see during games from Anderson. Fingers crossed we will this season!

    I think we can realistcally expect more than 10 goals from the likes of Rooney, Berbatov and Owen baring any major injuries.

    You a 'glass is half empty' kinda guy, right? ;)
  32. Aug 13, 2009
    #32

    SittingBull That's great and all, but what is Sergio Canales u

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  33. Aug 13, 2009
    #33

    Ekeke Full Member

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    If anyone other than our strikers is going to get 10 goals its Nani.
  34. Aug 13, 2009
    #34

    Name Changed weso26

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    Carrick will. He will probably be taking the penalties.
  35. Aug 13, 2009
    #35

    Ekeke Full Member

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    :lol:

    Vidic would probably get 15 if he took the pens.
  36. Aug 13, 2009
    #36

    CptMarvel Full Member

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    We scored 2 on the weekend against the toughest defence in the league, worrying times...
  37. Aug 13, 2009
    #37

    Name Changed weso26

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    Well yea. I'm guessing he won't be taking the penalties though!! He could still score 15 regardless.
  38. Aug 13, 2009
    #38

    Name Changed weso26

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    I thought we were the toughest defence in the league?
  39. Aug 13, 2009
    #39

    Ekeke Full Member

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    Not in pre-season. Thats Chelsea.
  40. Aug 13, 2009
    #40

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

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    Fergie has targeted the 100 goal mark in all competitions. I think these are pretty reasonable (and in some cases conservative) estimates of what our players will achieve.

    Rooney - 20
    Berbatov - 15
    Owen - 15
    Welbeck - 5
    Macheda - 5
    Nani - 5
    Valencia - 5
    Park - 4
    Giggs - 2
    Carrick - 4
    Fletcher - 4
    Anderson - 1
    Hargreaves - 2
    Scholes - 2
    Gibson - 2
    Vidic - 4
    Evra/Rafael/Brown/O'Shea/Ferdinand - 5 (min)

    So, that's 100 goals, and I don't think any of those tallies are too outrageous. Berbatov could easily break 15. Nani could get into double figures. Any one of Welbeck, Macheda or Valencia could improve on 5 if they have a good season. Other players could surprise by scoring more (I'd tip Gibson).

    I'd be willing to wager with any doom-mongering rival fan (or pessimistic United fan) that we'll score more this season than last.

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