Where would you rank this Man City side now?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by tentan, May 13, 2019.

  1. May 13, 2019
    #81

    Welby5 New Member

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    No question they are a great side and without doubt the most potent and attractive attacking team there's been. However, they are in an era with a lot of sub standard defending. 4th place Spurs lost 13 games. Chelsea have a dodgy defence lacking pace and getting little protection from midfield. Arsenal and Utd are pants as well.

    Again, without doubt City have more flair than any team before, but i'd like to have seen them try and breakdown a Chelsea team with a peaktime Cech, Terry, Gallas, Cole and Makalele in front of them. Let in 14 goals one season and in 24 games when Terry and Gallas were the CB pair they didn't conceed a single goal. I think that Chelsea could have tamed City's firepower in head to head matches.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2019
  2. May 13, 2019
    #82

    Welby5 New Member

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    So then, lets judge the achievements of Barca and R Madrid the same then, as they've had enourmous debts wiped clean. Italian clubs bankrolled by car firms and billionaires. Go way back to the early days of fotball with Arsenal being run by wealthy toffs.
  3. May 13, 2019
    #83

    andyox Full Member

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    I think most of the posts in the thread are fair. If you judge "the best" based on longevity, trophies (including the CL and domestic cups), and stats, then I think you have to put this current City side in 3rd place behind the two United sides of the 1999 and 2008 eras, and perhaps just a hair above Mourinho's mid-2000s squad.

    Obviously this side is not yet done, but it'll be interesting to see what we do next season. It's just not Guardiola's instinct to try to de-prioritise the domestic cups to give us a better chance in the CL, and all those games add up eventually.

    On the CL, winning it requires a great team and a bit of luck. We've lost to two teams (Liverpool and Spurs) that over the course of a league season, we were far superior to. So what went wrong? I think Guardiola got his tactics wrong in both of the away legs, and we didn't get the rub of the green in terms of referees/decisions. It's such fine margins in a knock-out competition. But having now won the league back-to-back, the pressure is definitely on us to do better in the CL next season.
  4. May 13, 2019
    #84

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    I see a few poster say they're the best because of the points total, that's a load of crap, Fergie managed our '99 and '08 squads to perfection, he didn't have a billion pound team to annihilate in all 3 of those trophies, just managed them to get the peak performances at the right times.

    Until City win the double or treble, they can't be compared to our sides, people forget that '08 side should have won the treble too apart from a terrible refereeing performance against Pompey, meanwhile I hear all this "City were hard done by against Spurs" - meaning the correctly called offside.

    Unfortunately if Barca/Real/Bayern don't get their act together and their only obstacle in the league are Liverpool, then I can see them getting the treble/quad soon.
  5. May 13, 2019
    #85

    Stocar Full Member

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    When it comes to quality of football and consistency, what they've shown in last two seasons is absolutely the best. Still they lack that bit of grit and opportunism to achieve more in Europe. They should get there eventually.
  6. May 13, 2019
    #86

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots Scout

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    Very well said. Fergie could have got more points in his prime seasons if needed.
  7. May 13, 2019
    #87

    Relevated fixated with venom and phalluses

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    Put this city team in England 2007/2008 and they finish third imo
  8. May 13, 2019
    #88

    ex and New Member

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    Like most Utd supporters I don’t watch City so often, but this season they’ve been mightily impressive.

    I would say they are very close to our 1999 side, who I think is the best team.
    The 1999 team has an edge, because of the CL win, but also of our 4 top strikers, and Beckham, Scholes, Keane and Giggs as a midfield, secondly only to the Brazil 1970 team.

    And another interesting question is how many of our present players would get into their 11 or even their top 18-20?
  9. May 13, 2019
    #89

    MoskvaRed Full Member

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    I’d put them alongside Chelsea 2004-2006 - very strong but should really have done better in Europe given the lack of truly outstanding opposition, particularly this year.
  10. May 14, 2019
    #90

    jackwanson New Member

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    I think it's far tougher than people realize. We are a great side but not an ATG side. I wont be surprised if we lose the FA Cup final. Its meaningless winning the PL again, City need to conquer Europe and the only way to do that is to buy new players. We should make it our top priority to get Mane, Neymar, and half the Ajax team. Win the PL too much without Cl and we will be considered a richer PSG
  11. May 14, 2019
    #91

    MrEleson Full Member

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    The 08/09 United team was stronger and more balanced overall than the 07/08 one and the closest side to this City imo if not as just as good.

    Far less reliant on Ronaldo than the previous year (with the league being won largely due to the defence) and a deeper squad in general. Think VDS went a record breaking number of games without conceding a goal that season with Vidic at his formidable peak at the core of the defence. Also, when it came round to May people were speaking of the side potentially winning the “box set” after already scooping the CWC and LC earlier that year while being ahead of the pack in the league and already in the semis of the Fa Cup and Champions League. Ultimately, the club was victorious in the league (being pushed all the way by Liverpool just like City) but faced elimination on penalties in the Fa Cup SF (due to fielding a side with mostly youngsters and SAF underestimating Everton) and elimination the CL in the final to arguably the best club side ever in a year Utd would have been the first club to retain the title. Any other year and that sides makes history.
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  12. May 14, 2019
    #92

    RedRonaldo Full Member

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    They have the potential to be the best ever, but they can’t claim themselves the greatest unless they win the CL.
  13. May 14, 2019
    #93

    Siorac Full Member

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    Well, they didn't.
  14. May 14, 2019
    #94

    GhastlyHun Full Member

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    There are four english teams out of the top 6 in the european cup finals, and City have played the rest of the top 6 fourteen times this season across all competitions. W10 D2 (counting the league cup final which they won on pens) L2.
    How do past great teams compare to that?
  15. May 14, 2019
    #95

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    They win European titles and don't make up imaginary 'moral' titles.
  16. May 14, 2019
    #96

    GhastlyHun Full Member

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    I'm still interested in the numbers.
    (I was asking an actual question in the previous post, not a rhetorical one)
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  17. May 14, 2019
    #97

    giorno Full Member

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    Gave up 4 to Barcelona and 5 to Bayern in CL
  18. May 14, 2019
    #98

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    5? Wasn't it 3? 1 in first leg and 2 in second.

    Edit: No you're right, first leg was 4-2 to Chelsea and second Bayern won 3-2.
  19. May 14, 2019
    #99

    MagicKarpet New Member

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    1. Pep's City
    2. Late Noughties United
    3. United 1999
    4. Mourinho's Chelsea
    5. Arsenal 2004
  20. May 14, 2019

    Rista Full Member

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    The arguments as to why they are not the best is what makes me think they could be really. The PL is not weaker now, the defending is not worse, the fact that they used oil money to assemble this squad is irrelevant. Playing like this, a CL title is only a matter of time sadly.
  21. May 14, 2019

    Full bodied red Full Member

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    The 2018 > 2019 Championship Team is as good as we've seen in the PL - no doubt about it.

    However....It's been bought and is funded with a bottomless pit of PetroDollars. Even Stockport County or Rochadale could win the EPL in ten years time if they were given the money that Citeh have been given the past ten years.

    Having said that, there's absolutely no doubt that the Club is light years ahead of us in its entire business, management and operations so its no wonder they have also produced a superb team.

    And as they've spent those ten years showing the rest of us how to spend money wisely and correctly, we've been and done the exact opposite. We've not only stagnated, we've gone backwards in so many different ways.

    Sad to say it, but it's going to be an impossible road back for us without our own zillionaire whether we like being plastic or not.
  22. May 14, 2019

    Danny Roberts Full Member

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    I think it's almost futile to compare eras but the fact they have racked up the points they have suggests to me they are the best of the best. And that in seasons where rival clubs have done very well in Europe (so we can't say the opposition is weak).
  23. May 14, 2019

    Welby5 New Member

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    I was talking about the Premiership, not the CL which is a different kettle of fish altogether! A great, record breaking City, who haven't even got to a SF yet. A struggling Chelsea finish 6th in the league yet win the CL, which included that crazy SF against a truly great Barca team when we 2-0 down with 10 men. Liverpool winning it after being 3 down at halftime and the back to back comebacks from Pool and Spurs last week. Anything, can and does happen in the CL.

    Oh, and the defeat against Barca was after extra time after going down to 10 men.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2019
  24. May 14, 2019

    Welby5 New Member

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    How can you seriously say the defending is not worse? How can a 'top team' that loses 13 games have a good defence? Chelsea finish 3rd with probably the weakest deefence they've had for 20 + years, as proven by the 6-0 to City and 4-0 to firigging Bournemoth. Vidic and Rio era vs the current bunch of clowns. Ditto with peak Wenger defence and the sorry lot they have now. A great attacking team against shite defences is a non contest!
  25. May 14, 2019

    andyox Full Member

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    Are you on a wind-up? How on earth can winning the PL again be "meaningless?"

    If your top priority is for us to buy Mane, Neymar, and half the Ajax team, then I think you're in for a very disappointing summer.
  26. May 14, 2019

    gibers Full Member

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    Best side I've ever seen in the prem for their style. Never had a team like that in the EPL. Played Silva Gundogan and Bernardo in CM in some games, but apparently you cant do that in the mighty EPL.

    The standard of football is also much higher than before.
  27. May 14, 2019

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    I think you have to win BOTH the League and Champions League in one season to qualify as the best as there's been two teams in the PL era to have done that (us in 99 & 08). As far as the rest I'd say a little better than Arsenal of 2001-2004 and about level with the Chelsea of 2004-2006.
  28. May 14, 2019

    Leroy The Red Full Member

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    For city yeah, but not in general. Big games nowadays are full of catastrophic defensive mistakes, teams are feebly cowering away and throwing away 3-0 leads in European ties. Even city have put on absolutely pathetic showings in CL knockout times three years in a row. You’d never see this shit 10-15 years ago at the regularity you see it now.
    Footballers are running more and passing the ball shorter but I don’t think that means the overall standard is higher at all.
    It’s quite weird cos in modern day society people are obsessed with pretending everything was better back in the day and in football it’s the opposite..
  29. May 14, 2019

    gibers Full Member

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    Footballers are technically better. Defenders are better than in the past because they actually get away with less now. Half the stuff the players in yester years did would be punished harshly.

    The teams run more, are fitter, technically better etc

    In the EPl teams also have more money.

    ATM European teams have declined. When the pl declined they were also trash. Inter were useless in the cl, Juve were rebuilding from calcipoli, Milan were trash in their league and turned up in cl every other year, barca were good for one season and trash in others, Madrid were a complete joke.

    Football is more attacking than before so there will be more mistakes made. That's it. City weren't pathetic tbh, they barely lost out to Spurs and played well generally. The football is generally better for me.
  30. May 14, 2019

    Megadrive Man New Member

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    Liverpool
    They are the greatest Premier League team of all time.

    I don't really understand the arguments against this?

    the 98/99 Premier league had Derby County in the top 8! United only won 22 league games that season!

    You can make a bit more of a case for the 09 United team. They were brilliant, hardly any weaknesses in that team but even that team would have come second to the current City team. 64 wins out of 76 league games is an incredible achievement. Can you honestly see any team getting close to that?
  31. May 14, 2019

    Leroy The Red Full Member

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    There is no way defenders are better than they were in the past, surely that’s not even up for debate. I’m not talking about the 70’s where you could obviously assault your opponents, I’m talking about ten years ago or so.

    Technically better? Nah, don’t think so either, unless again you’re stretching the time frame longer ? But 10/15 years ago we had players like Zidane, figo, xavi, iniesta, rui Costa, pirlo, Scholes, kaka, Ronaldinho etc.. you can’t surely think players nowadays possess more technical qualities than those guys ?

    Football is more attacking for sure and that makes it more exciting to an extent. But doesn’t make it better. Mistakes are being made because defending is atrocious not because attacking is that good and this is shown by the fact you’ll rarely see the two current top cb’s in Laporte and Van Dijk make calamitous mistakes .
    And I think city were pathetic, conceding all those goals to Monaco. Being 3-0 down at Anfield because Pep is too stubborn to play pragmatic. And being twenty metres too high up the pitch for sons two goals at the Etihad despite being level in the tie. It was beyond stupid.
  32. May 14, 2019

    gibers Full Member

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    Pep lost at Anfiled because of refs decision. The goal liverpool scored was offside and their legitimate goal was disallowed in second leg. City were too cautious and that was their problem. Pep changed and played KDB on the flank and Gundo in the middle iirc.

    They needed to attack, its obvious that one goal was not enough. Laporte made all his errors i that game. I wont blame pep for Laporte making unforced errors.
  33. May 14, 2019

    Eire Red United Full Member

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    Best league team ever in terms of efficiency hands down, but in a one off big game most of Fergies teams would beat them.
  34. May 14, 2019

    JazzG Resident Arse.

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    Domestically they could go down as the best ever side this season. They've won the League, League cup, the community shield and odds on favourites to win the FA cup. Domestic treble has never been done so that would be a great achievement. You could put them in any of the great past teams leagues and they'd wipe the floor with them. 98 points is beyond ridiculous, your lot won the treble with 78 we've won a double with 77.

    Overall when you compare to the great sides they had a chance to put themselves right at the top of the list. If they had won the Quadruple they'd have a fair argument to be thought of as one of the all time greats. That CL failure will mean they won't be up there with the all time great club sides.
  35. May 14, 2019

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    In terms of league dominance, yeah they're up there. Probably the best.

    Overall, I still think our 2007-2008 team is a better team throughout all competitions.
  36. May 14, 2019

    Tostao_80 New Member

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    What have i just read?
    That United midfield and forward line is not a patch on Gullit, Van Basten and Rijkaards team. How many points did they get in 98/99 on the league, less than 80? And how do they compare to Busi, Xavi, Ini, Messi, Henry, Etoo of Barca 09 vintage?
    None of those man united midfielders or forwards would be in contention for top 10 best of all time in their position. Those Barca and Milan teams have numerous players that would stake a good claim.
    But back to the topic at hand, just domestically, this City is the best ever. What they're doing at home is unprecedented.
  37. May 14, 2019

    ForeverRoma93 Full Member

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    While I loved the 08/09 United team, I think I'd give the current City team the edge as the best in PL history unfortunately
  38. May 15, 2019

    AP88 Full Member

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    Is this Liverpool team better than all of Ferguson’s teams, the Arsenal of the first five years of the century? Chelsea’s title winning teams under Mourinho and Ancelotti? Because they finished just a point below this City team (while negotiating far more difficult Champions League ties) and with a points total that eclipses any of those aforementioned teams.

    If the answer is no, then you have to acknowledge that the league is simply nowhere near as challenging as in previous eras - points are obviously far easier to come by.

    The Van Dijk vs Vidic stats, a decade apart, told you all you need to know; that season United were European champions and retained the league, yet teams clearly competed, worked the defence and offered a genuine threat - unlike the pathetic efforts City and Liverpool are up against now.

    I’d love to see Pep and Klopp up against the likes of Pulis, Allardyce and Blackburn-era Hughes, who played to their own strengths and took the big clubs to war, rather than gimps like Eddie Howe who lube themselves up for a beating by trying to play ‘good’ football with players who simply cannot do it.
  39. May 15, 2019

    Infordin Full Member

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    Not sure about that. Pep has a tremendous record in finals.

    In other news, on bluemoon forum they have a thread called “Is Pep the greatest”
  40. May 15, 2019

    andyox Full Member

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    Slightly harsh on the bottom clubs!
    Last edited: May 15, 2019