Who are the top dogs of London?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Fortitude, Feb 28, 2018.

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Who are the top dogs of London?

Poll closed Mar 28, 2018.
  1. Arsenal

    15.1%
  2. Chelsea

    61.1%
  3. Spurs

    11.1%
  4. Dagenham & Redbridge of course

    12.6%
  1. Feb 28, 2018
    #1

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    I've not known a time when Arsenal were not seen as the biggest club in London, either via league titles, Division 1/Premiership total point tallies; support and attendance records' self-generated wealth and so on and so forth.

    Chelsea's prominence always had the Abramovich cavaet attached to it, and as he's tightened the purse strings, they've once again started to wobble. It may very well be temporary, but it does feel like their golden era has ended.

    Spurs have always been the 'fancy Dan's' in my lifetime. Pretty footballing side who amount to little in the end before being disbanded and starting over again. Is this changing? They actually look like the club with the most upward trajectory, but is that short-term, or merely illusory because of the predicament Arsenal are in and the fact Chelsea have their own issues to sort out. It's been a surprise to see them fill Wembley for run-of-the-mill PL games, and it does indicate that if they had a stadium as massive as that, they'd do the same. I must admit that's been a revelation. We (as in the other club support at large) expect Spurs to follow the Spurs' trend and sell assets and become half the footballing force they currently are. Is this line of thinking archaic? Can Spurs surpass the other two by merit?

    Here's the trophy count for each club (per Wikipedia):

    Arsenal:​


    EFL and Premier League
    Winners (13): 1930–31, 1932–33, 1933–34, 1934–35, 1937–38, 1947–48, 1952–53, 1970–71, 1988–89, 1990–91, 1997–98, 2001–02, 2003–04
    Winners (2): 1986–87, 1992–93
    Winners (1): 1988 (record)
    The FA
    Winners (13): 1929–30, 1935–36, 1949–50, 1970–71, 1978–79, 1992–93, 1997–98, 2001–02, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2013–14, 2014–15, 2016–17 (record)

    UEFA


    Winners (1): 1993–94


    Majors:

    League Winners: 13
    FA Cup: 13 (record)
    League Cup: 2
    UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1

    Chelsea: ​


    Leagues
    Winners (6): 1954–55, 2004–05, 2005–06, 2009–10, 2014–15, 2016–17
    Winners (2): 1983–84, 1988–89
    Cups

    Winners (7): 1969–70, 1996–97, 1999–2000, 2006–07, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2011–12
    Winners (5): 1964–65, 1997–98, 2004–05, 2006–07, 2014–15
    European
    Winners (1): 2011–12
    Winners (1): 2012–13
    Winners (2): 1970–71, 1997–98
    Winners (1): 1998


    Majors:

    League Winners: 6
    FA Cup: 7
    League Cup: 5
    Champions League: 1
    Europa League: 1
    UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 2


    Spurs:​

    Domestic

    League competitions


    Cup competitions

    European

    Majors:
    League Winners: 2
    FA Cup: 8
    League Cup: 4
    Europa League: 2
    UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1



    For me, I'd always put a European Cup/ Champions League winner over a club that hasn't won it, or has won it less (i.e. AC Milan > Juventus) if the trophy counts and/or longevity is similar. I know others won't do that for obvious reasons... or actually because they value domestic success and national dominance greatly. What's telling from these trophy hauls is that Arsenal have been dire in Europe. For all the talk of them being up there with Manchester United and Liverpool, their European trophy haul is way, way off the pace, so much so that they are the worst of the three clubs listed despite dwarfing the other two on the domestic front.

    Attendence between the three is misleading because of the restrictions of their current stadia. Seems to me Arsenal and Spurs would have no problem filling a 75,000+, not sure about Chelsea?

    Anyway, I digress as the idea is not to just talk in a historical or traditional sense as this question is to discern who people feel are the top dogs over the last few years, or, if the last few years have even swayed their opinions - has the status quo changed at all for you? Ranking the clubs, in the now, who are 1 through to 3?

    What say you, redcafe?

    There's no point adding the other London clubs because they're miles off these 3, but feel free to make an extended list if you want to.

    A poll for this would be great.
  2. Feb 28, 2018
    #2

    Judas Open to offers

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    History wise, comfortably Arsenal.

    Currently, Chelsea.
  3. Feb 28, 2018
    #3

    nokillingmoths Full Member

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  4. Feb 28, 2018
    #4

    devil in me Full Member

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    I'd find it hard to argue against Chelsea, in fairness.
  5. Feb 28, 2018
    #5

    Snowjoe Enjoys hatching eggs for people Staff

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    Sorry had to edit to poll to add my answer.
  6. Feb 28, 2018
    #6

    el3mel Full Member

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    Was going to say the same.
  7. Feb 28, 2018
    #7

    MikeUpNorth Wobbles like a massive pair of tits

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    I think you have to give it to Chelsea based on their European success, and the recency of their achievements.
  8. Feb 28, 2018
    #8

    Moonred Full Member

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    Definitely not Spurs.
  9. Feb 28, 2018
    #9

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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    Yep.

    Spurs need to win something to be remotely included in the conversations. They've been lauded the past 7 or so years since 'Arry was there but all they have to show for it is a runners up spot.
  10. Feb 28, 2018
    #10

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

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    Can't believe how low Arsenal are in that vote. It's a personal feeling of course but it seems to me as if they're still a much more interesting club to the general outsider than Chelsea. Global support seems higher, as well as media interest.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  11. Feb 28, 2018
    #11

    Samid follows Pogue around, fixing his images

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    Arsenal have been irrelevant for about 13-14 years. Spurs have been irrelevant since like forever. No brainer really.
  12. Feb 28, 2018
    #12

    Revaulx Full Member

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    Not now, nor in the past.

    Maybe in the future though. What does @GlastonSpur have to say about it? :lol:
  13. Feb 28, 2018
    #13

    hellohello Full Member

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    They are football clubs, not dogs.
  14. Feb 28, 2018
    #14

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    How long can, or should, history keep a team above others? Chelsea have been a genuine force for over a decade, had countless historical encounters in the Champions League - certainly enough to leave their mark on the competition, and they've been a domestic powerhouse.

    I thought about this thread because the default answer always was Arsenal, but loads of things have happened since they were last a genuine force, added to that, they're a blip in Europe, which for some people, is a huge consideration.
  15. Feb 28, 2018
    #15

    James Peril Full Member

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    Spurs filling their stadium? A lot of those people are tourists in London, as can be seen in the sharp decline in visitors during weekdays. Some 50k against Southampton? Weak stuff considering a lot of those tickets would be incredibly cheap.
  16. Feb 28, 2018
    #16

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

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    Yeah, it's a good thread and a worthy question to ask. I'm looking at it from this perspective: if neither Chelsea nor Arsenal win anything in the next 5 years then who remains the bigger club? I think Arsenal.
  17. Feb 28, 2018
    #17

    Austria-Red New Member

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    Chelsea is running them close at least in the supporter department. Granted, this statistic was made when Chelsea had the more successful year and I don't know how reliable it is. With Chelsea´s recent European success I would think that they are about equal. Still voted for Arsenal
  18. Feb 28, 2018
    #18

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    Really? Even by that context, Chelsea have the more impressive modern credentials, no? We know of Chapman and the stuff Arsenal did pre-war, but that part of their trophy haul and history makes them what they are, but it doesn't keep them there - I mean, if Liverpool can lose relevance to the newer audiences, then a much less decorated club with little to no achievements in Europe except being a runner-up one time. It's not much to go off of if, say, both clubs do nothing of note over the next half decade, is it?
  19. Feb 28, 2018
    #19

    Jaybomb Banned

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    United, Chelsea and City are the three biggest clubs in England.
  20. Feb 28, 2018
    #20

    Distracted Steward Full Member

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    Chelsea. It you go back to ancient history, Arsenal. It’s been over a decade of a gulf between the two. For all practical purposes, you’ve gotta say it’s Chelsea at this point. It’s been too long, and Arsenal are a tier below at this point.

    Spurs have the makings of a club that could force their way into the conversation, but it’s all theory at this point. They haven’t won any trophies, and they’ve always had trouble pushing on. This time they have the best squad they’ve had in a generation, but their wage structure is unsustainable. How are they going to keep that team together long enough? How long can they find (relatively) cheap replacements for the players they lose yet maintain the quality needed to push into the elite? For as intriguing as they are, the jury is out on all this. I don’t see them holding it together and winning a league title. They are more likely to eclipse Arsenal, at this point, than Arsenal are to push back past Chelsea, though.
  21. Feb 28, 2018
    #21

    Kopral Jono Full Member

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    Arsenal, most league titles and most fans in London. Just left the Old Smoke for good last month after living in the actual borough of Kensington and Chelsea for a few years and I can safely say, supporters-wise at least, Chelsea aren't even in the top three. Arsenal are way top in that department, even in parts of West London, followed by Spurs and West Ham respectively.

    You just don't see a lot of Chelsea fans around.
  22. Feb 28, 2018
    #22

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Chelsea are 2 or 3 league titles away from having a more impressive trophy cabinet than Arsenal. Arsenal are still on top though
  23. Feb 28, 2018
    #23

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

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    Do we have to go that far back though? Arsenal have been one of the big guns of the Premier League since its inception, and not just as a one-off like when Blackburn won the title back in 95 or Leicester. It was only last year that they failed to secure a top 4 position for the first time since 1996, which is a pretty impressive stat all things considered. Let's not forget that Chelsea finished 10th as recently as two seasons ago. You also mention yourself about things like Arsenal's average attendance, self-generated wealth, etc.

    I stand by my point that Arsenal are still a bigger club but I'll grant you that under-performance over the next three years - which looks very likely right now - with a title or two going Chelsea's way would definitely change my opinion. It's on a knife-edge as is. I was just surprised by how few people thought the same.
  24. Feb 28, 2018
    #24

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    Imo, The CL eclipses 2 or three league titles.
    You can't say you're a really big club until you've won that trophy imo.
  25. Feb 28, 2018
    #25

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    Historically it's Arsenal. A proper club with a nice history. A fanbase that's been around for longer.

    Chelsea are currently since they have been the one with all the success in the last 10-15 years. Spurs are probably the best side currently in London but that will most likely be temporary.
  26. Feb 28, 2018
    #26

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

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    We are, aren't we?
  27. Feb 28, 2018
    #27

    Red00012 New Member

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    Depends on when you are talking about ? Is it over the last 20 years ? Then arsenal.If it’s 10 years? It’s prob Chelsea. The Last 8-10 months you could say spurs. Next 10 years probably Dag&Red
  28. Feb 28, 2018
    #28

    Peter van der Gea New Member

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    Historically Arsenal, and their rivalry with Spurs adds to that. Chelsea now with their recent success, with Arsenal close behind, Spurs lagging behind because apparently they can only win a trophy when the year both starts and ends with a 1.

    Chelsea are in a bit of a weird situation where they have 3 decent clubs near them to share fans, Fulham, QPR and Brentford, but none big enough to have a proper derby. Arsenal and Spurs share north London with Barnet and Orient, so they have the bulk of the local fans.
  29. Feb 28, 2018
    #29

    Camilo Full Member

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    Arsenal for me. They've lost their way, but Chelsea don't really attract top talents and Spurs are no bigger than West Ham.
  30. Feb 28, 2018
    #30

    Pink Moon Full Member

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    Liverpool are a far bigger club than Chelsea and City.
  31. Feb 28, 2018
    #31

    Morpheus 7 Full Member

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    Arsenal are, being quitters and shadow of themselves doesn't take away that history. More fans, bigger stadium and history. Chelsea have won the European cup but way off in leagues and FA cups, plus their success is hollow. Spurs are a good side but have won feck all in years.
  32. Feb 28, 2018
    #32

    TinFoil New Member

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    Not sure tbh

    You could make a convincing case for either chelsea or arsenal.

    I do wonder how long arsenal will be able to get by on history though.
  33. Feb 28, 2018
    #33

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

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    There doesn't have to be a top dog.
  34. Feb 28, 2018
    #34

    Snowjoe Enjoys hatching eggs for people Staff

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    :lol:
  35. Feb 28, 2018
    #35

    SirAF Ageist

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    Definitely Chelsea.
  36. Feb 28, 2018
    #36

    el magico Full Member

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    I live in north London. In an area that is probably on the border between Arsenal and Tottenham. Despite that, I disagree with you completely. I would say I see more Chelsea fans across London than anyone else. Arsenal marginally behind and then Spurs and West Ham in a distant third and fourth.
  37. Feb 28, 2018
    #37

    Giggs86 Full Member

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    Shocking to see how low Arsenal have fallen. They got no one but themselves to blame though, the 4th place celebrating, dressing room selfie taking defeatist bastards, with a past it manager and softer than room temperature butter players.
  38. Feb 28, 2018
    #38

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

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    Some of this could apply to us.
  39. Feb 28, 2018
    #39

    Fiskey Can't stop thinking about David Nugent's hot naked

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    Agreed, I've been to a few games at Wembley and taken visiting friends and I'm not a Spurs fan!
  40. Feb 28, 2018
    #40

    Jaybomb Banned

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    Based on what?

    City, Chelsea and United are the only teams that win the league these days. They’re the only teams with big money that buy big players.

    I’m sick of the whole “history” argument. Liverpool have won feck all in the past decade. They’re not a big club anymore.